GDT: DEADLINE DAAYYYYYYYY

[Gardner McKay]

Wooohoooo! Let's get ready for nothing to happen!

Verified sources only. No blue checkmark, no post. That simple. This helps weed out the 784,912 bogus twitter accounts that will post information and get people here all riled up over absolutely nothing.

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[mas0764]

You don't care about winning. You care about being a peacock and analytics darling.

I don't know what "being a peacock" means, but since analystics generally translate to winning, I absolutely care about winning.

Of course, I've never made the argument that analytics are the entire story either, so you are also wrong on that count, but at the same time I don't ignore them.

Where's Tampa, Washington or St Louis. You mention teams that have never won the cup. Where are there prospect pools?

Where's the elite talent that those teams had in spades on this roster? It's either not ready yet on the NHL roster or it doesn't exist in the system at all.

The prospect pool argument you are making is a red herring. If we had two more 21 year old centers here that projected as top six players this conversation wouldn't be happening even if our prospect pool was ranked 31st.

The reason the prospect pool is important is because the NHL roster isn't finalized.

You have an almost Socialist Utopia vision. This Utopian Team that will come together if only we just suck and sell off everything. It would be so beautiful. We'd have 4 or 5 Lafreniere and Kakkos but they'd all be playing elite hockey by now. All of the kids will play well, there are no busts. The lockerroom and leadership wouldn't be needed in this scenario because they are so mature for their age. Salary Cap isn't an issue because all the kids take massive discounts after they breakout. This would be a dystopian timeline.

Somehow the Blackhawks, Lightning, Penguins, Bruins and Kings all managed to do it.

And we didn't need to "sell everything off." We needed to make 1-2 more future trades. If we had traded Kreider for Robertson and a first and Buch for Kupari and a first, we'd still be a playoff team as we sit here today and we would be done building. This conversation wouldn't be happening.

Instead, the build needs to continue. Or we aren't winning a Cup.

Carolina has been competing for 4 years now? why no cup?
Colorado has been competing for 5 years now? why no cup? why can't they even get past the 2nd round?
Tampa has been competing for 11 years? why did it take year 9 and 10 to win?
Why did it take Washington 11 years to win?

We haven't even finished year 1. Haven't even played a Playoff game. Stop.

You are proving my point as to how hard it is. Those teams have trouble getting by the Penguins and the Lightning year after year, because those teams have the Socialist Utopia version of talent.

We aren't even on the Colorado level.

We have a ways to go.

Is it possible we can get hot and win one year like St. Louis?

Sure.

But that's a tremendous long shot and not what anyone should be building to emulate.

We need to emulate the multi-Cup winners.

The Penguins are out: we cannot get a Crosby and Malkin in here at this point. The Lightning are out: They had a ridiculous tidal wave of talent that no one is ever likely to replicate for a long time, that's why they've won two Cups and may win a third in a row.

The Blackhawks, Bruins, and Kings are good models for us. To match them, we need a couple more pieces still.

 

[mas0764]

prospect pools generally take a hit when u have high end prospects that become nhlers. laf, kakko, fox, chytil, miller, schneider are all young players. they arent prospects because they are in the NHL now. if ur constantly at the top of the prospect rankings its because your team sucks.

I agree, but what you are arguing is a result of people misinterpreting my argument.

I am not lamenting that our prospect pool is no good. I'm lamenting that it's dwindling yet we have gaping holes at long term forward (center) that desperately need to be addressed.

Again, if Lias Andersson was here and looking like a young Stepan (1B center type) and Howden was here playing like a young Andrew Copp (~40ish point jack of all trades 2C/3C type) we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We need those two pieces. Until we have them, we are flawed big time.

 

[Savant]

Speaking of Sammy, what line will he play with next season?

The one he looks best on in preseason. Not necessarily on the Rangers either.

 

[Anthony5967]

Speaking of Sammy, what line will he play with next season?

Probably a checking third line

 

[mas0764]

We “gave away” a fourth, third and two seconds. And Barron who at 24 unfortunately was not cracking our lineup. And got a 27 year old player that can help us now and moving forward for the three main assets. Yes I believe they will sign him.

I kinda think they absolutely need to sign him, frankly. Which isn't a great spot to be in, in terms of what that contract is gonna look like.

The prospect pool is a bit lower because many of our prospects are good enough that they are already NHLers.

Yet there are massive holes in the NHL roster. We were icing practically two full lines of AHL players this year. We have literally nothing at center besides Zibanejad here long term. Nothing.

That's the problem.

Third youngest team in the league (maybe a bit older now) and you think there’s a lack of young forward talent?

Yes. We need two young top 9 / future top 6 centers and, if Kravtsov doesn't return, another young winger who can play in the top 6.

And the reason for this is that to be a Cup winner, you almost always need to have top 6 talent playing on your third line.

So we need more. Lots more. As of like a week ago we had top 6 AHL talent playing on our third line.

And excuse me for trying to get a 20 year old rather than a 30 year old to fill that spot. I'd like to still be winning when Fox is 27 instead of entering another rebuild.

And our prospect polls this year were so much fun because there’s still a lot there to look forward to.
I don’t know why you are so incredibly negative but I’m glad I don't think like you on this.

You can both enjoy this playoff run and admit to yourself that the team is an incomplete project. It almost certainly will not win a Cup as currently constructed. It needs more talent.

The easy time to get that talent was before. The team punted on that strategy in favor of building around 30 year olds.

Now it needs to do something more radical or it will top out as another solid team that never wins a Cup.

 

[Rangers in 7]

The prospect pool ISN'T in the top third of the league, it's closer to the bottom third at this point. And the "bleeding to stop," is that it's short numerous young top 6 forwards that it needs to be a true Cup contender both now and long term.

This will all be more apparent once we don't win a Cup this year and are short all those picks we gave away and we are no closer to competing against the Hurricanes and Avalanche of the world.

Too many people here think that you build into a mediocre playoff team and the job is done and rely on luck. Those types of teams rarely win. We don't measure up against the best of the best yet and never will at this rate.

Dude come on…..at some point you have to start trading assets, the ONLY reason we aren’t a top prospect pool anymore is because ALL of our best “prospects” are already playing in the nhl

 

[Leonardo87]

Have not posted much because I knew there would be a sea of hundreds to thousands of post yesterday so waited for things to calm down a little.

Anyway, think the Rangers paid a little too much for Copp, glad they didn’t get Rakell who is a very frustrating player, I should know, and overall think they had a decent deadline.

Team is set to compete and think they can get to at least the 2nd round .

 

[Rangers in 7]

Also @mas0764 I don’t want to pick on you but you seem like someone ok with continual rebuilds. The rangers have built a very solid young team, we didn’t give up any first round picks. The best teams fill out future lineups with solid drafting. For all intensive purposes we are going to live and die on the future of laf and kakko. If they don’t turn into good hockey players then it doesn’t matter that we have up Morgan Barron or 2 2nd round picks. Those 2nds are easily recouped in the off-season

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Rangers roster has Copp wearing 18 and Motte 64 if anyone cares about that sort of thing

 

[Rangers in 7]

Rangers roster has Copp wearing 18 and Motte 64 if anyone cares about that sort of thing

Shit I ordered my Copp jersey with number 9

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The Rangers upgraded their team greatly yesterday and if you go on the website there is no mention of it.

If you go on the site you would have no idea they got 3 new players for a Cup run.

They are leading with trying to sell Staple collection shit. Piss-poor media choices continue.

Jay F. Hicks, Senior Manager of Digital Strategy and Content

 

[will1066]

Have not posted much because I knew there would be a sea of hundreds to thousands of post yesterday so waited for things to calm down a little.

Anyway, think the Rangers paid a little too much for Copp, glad they didn’t get Rakell who is a very frustrating player, I should know, and overall think they had a decent deadline.

Team is set to compete and think they can get to at least the 2nd round .

Your cred in my book took a hit because you purposely avoided participating in the Annual Trade Deadline Day Site Crash. You're a fairweather poster.

 

[McRanger92]

first time posting in a long long time ... JD and Gorts had a plan and that was excacty what Drury executed since the Buch trade . Their last draft , they drafted chippy kids, schneids , cuylle, berard, even vierling... then the beating by the Islanders in the home and home ,then the Tom Wilson bullying .... now in drurys defense he now , buch trade sucked but the player we got back is what we covet , he signs Goodrow , which I thought we overpaid for but as we watch him play this season, to me he is worth every penny...then he gets the BIG GUY out of Vegas a big deterrent from guys taking liberties out on players and yes , as you watch other teams know this, no more running MIKA with out repercussions , oh i forgot he locked up 2 of our main core guys for very good costs and got Turk on top...now he also has to deal with 5 1st rd picks , none of his, , all fowards , which as of now 1 is gone, the other took his ball and went home, Chytil went too early imo and he looks like it, then the 2 big guys are a combined 268 gp, 49g, 47 assists , ik their young BUT ? then he takes Othman which is a looking better then the other previous i mentioned ... Now the dealine moves , love the chemistry with conections with frankie v , motte , copp to troubs, as far as the picks and barron, could Barron be better then Copp, thats what we were hoping for buts not ready to contribute to this teams core guys and the window to win a cup... Drury got blais, hunt , goodrow , reaves, frankie V , Copp, and motte, all guys that fit the coveted motif that started with the 2020 draft and he gave up barron , Buch and picks, think about that? If drury is a real miracle worker , can he sign 2 0f the 3 or all 3 with copp, frankie v and motte, guys that are exactly what the doctor ordered for us to merge the rebuild without giving up any A prospects and have a full deck if we make a run at a bigtime player , id rather have the good quantity of depth which Drury just pulled off , we amped up for a run this year without giving up that much , now next year with these trades and all of our A prospects , he really couldn't have done it much better... Kudos Dury , now ranger fans , believe in him , he deserves it

Good post. Now maybe we can look at the Buch trade as an exception to the mostly good moves Drury has made under his tenure. Especially when you consider that it was a move he and the organization didnt want to make but they knew their hands were tied. The most impressive thing about Drury/Gallant so far is they seem to know exactly what the teams strengths and weaknesses are and they make decisions appropriately. And to do all this at the deadline and maintain their insane organizational depth, this is what Tampa Bay and Colorado have done to stay at the top of the food chain for as long as they have. We are in good hands, now lets enjoy the hell out of this playoff run because it wont be for the faint of heart.

 

[bhamill]

I kinda think they absolutely need to sign him, frankly. Which isn't a great spot to be in, in terms of what that contract is gonna look like.



Yet there are massive holes in the NHL roster. We were icing practically two full lines of AHL players this year. We have literally nothing at center besides Zibanejad here long term. Nothing.

That's the problem.



Yes. We need two young top 9 / future top 6 centers and, if Kravtsov doesn't return, another young winger who can play in the top 6.

And the reason for this is that to be a Cup winner, you almost always need to have top 6 talent playing on your third line.

So we need more. Lots more. As of like a week ago we had top 6 AHL talent playing on our third line.

And excuse me for trying to get a 20 year old rather than a 30 year old to fill that spot. I'd like to still be winning when Fox is 27 instead of entering another rebuild.



You can both enjoy this playoff run and admit to yourself that the team is an incomplete project. It almost certainly will not win a Cup as currently constructed. It needs more talent.

The easy time to get that talent was before. The team punted on that strategy in favor of building around 30 year olds.

Now it needs to do something more radical or it will top out as another solid team that never wins a Cup.

This is a bit over the top. 30 year old? Copp is 27 and I believe he’ll be here another 5-6 years and we still have forwards on the way up and our top assets to use in the kind of trades you want. BTW, you aren’t winning the Cup if you are relying primarily on 20-23 year old players, that doesn’t happen. You need veterans as well and “younger” veterans like Copp are preferable.
I really think your hatred of Drury colors a lot of this. But it is what it is. You gotta do you. I’m not sure what among Barron, two 2nds, a 3rd and a 4th is the massive payoff that would have replenished our prospect pool and made us Cup contenders too. If you got two good NHLers out of that, never mind top tier talent, you’d be way ahead of the law of averages.
I was on the same “don't waste good assets on rentals” page as you leading up to this. And since I believe the plan is to sign Copp I don’t think we did. And our chances are greatly improved of at least getting our young guys more than four games vital playoff experience. Maybe even get into the second round. Of course time will tell, but I think this TDL was definitely a positive.

 

[tlk]

Shit I ordered my Copp jersey with number 9

Order another one with 9

 

[McRanger92]

Speaking of Sammy, what line will he play with next season?

Really like Sammy but with playing style/injury concerns and the moves they made today, I could see him potentially not be qualified. Given their history with Trouba/Panarin I could see Drury looking to bring back no only Copp but Motte as well depending on price.

 

[Ola]

JFC! How many 8 balls did Kouleas shove up his nose before this podcast?

Not my area of expertise, but lol looking at that clip it looks like you are on to something!

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Really like Sammy but with playing style/injury concerns and the moves they made today, I could see him potentially not be qualified. Given their history with Trouba/Panarin I could see Drury looking to bring back no only Copp but Motte as well depending on price.

Blais will not cost much, it would be malpractice not to qualify him

 

[McRanger92]

Blais will not cost much, it would be malpractice not to qualify him

1.6 isnt nothing for a team that may have cap issues but i generally agree. They could probably trade him for a 2 or 3 if they needed to.

 

[TominNC]

I don't know what "being a peacock" means, but since analystics generally translate to winning, I absolutely care about winning.

Of course, I've never made the argument that analytics are the entire story either, so you are also wrong on that count, but at the same time I don't ignore them.



Where's the elite talent that those teams had in spades on this roster? It's either not ready yet on the NHL roster or it doesn't exist in the system at all.

The prospect pool argument you are making is a red herring. If we had two more 21 year old centers here that projected as top six players this conversation wouldn't be happening even if our prospect pool was ranked 31st.

The reason the prospect pool is important is because the NHL roster isn't finalized.



Somehow the Blackhawks, Lightning, Penguins, Bruins and Kings all managed to do it.



You are proving my point as to how hard it is. Those teams have trouble getting by the Penguins and the Lightning year after year, because those teams have the Socialist Utopia version of talent.

We aren't even on the Colorado level.

We have a ways to go.

Is it possible we can get hot and win one year like St. Louis?

Sure.

But that's a tremendous long shot and not what anyone should be building to emulate.

We need to emulate the multi-Cup winners.

The Penguins are out: we cannot get a Crosby and Malkin in here at this point. The Lightning are out: They had a ridiculous tidal wave of talent that no one is ever likely to replicate for a long time, that's why they've won two Cups and may win a third in a row.

The Blackhawks, Bruins, and Kings are good models for us. To match them, we need a couple more pieces still.

We need to win one cup before we can win two. You don't toss away chances BECAUSE they are so hard to accomplish.

 

[Black Tank]

How is getting 4 rentals a set up for years to come?
We were a good team.
We r now a great team(on paper)
The team wont be this good next season
Up to GG to put the pieces together
We will have a real third line now
We will have a 4th line thats much closer to a 3rd line now.
These moves were made to win the cup.
If shesty is shesty
If our pp stays great
We can win it.
Our 5v5 scoring is certainly better
Our speed and overall defense is better.
Our shot differential should be much better now.
All the pressure is on GG
He was given exactly what we needed.

Not all 4 may be rentals, but even if they are, their purpose is to shore up this PO run and get the CORE some needed PO experience together. That's how you set up for future runs and with the depth and talent, we should have many years of contention. Nobody really gives a f*** about these individual TDL pickups because they're not part of the core (unless Copp displaces Strome and gets a multiyear deal).

 

[TominNC]

Shit I ordered my Copp jersey with number 9

And why would you do that?

 

[B17 Apricots]

I'm the first person to say hold on to picks, that's how you keep the pipeline flowing to the big team, use those prospects as trade chips. But this is the exact type of acquisition we've been talking about for a while. Someone that will more than likely be re-signed here with term at an affordable number rather than a pure rental. Good chance at being the placeholder at 2C going foward. He checks a lot of boxes, brings some elements to this team that we're lacking.

I think ideally you look at that Bennett contract as the target here. Copp has shown a bit more than Bennett did when he got that deal though. The Jets fan came here and said he turned down 5 years at 4 mil per. I'd look for 4 years at 4.5 per like Bennett. Might look a little closer to McCann, Gourde, Pageau, etc.. though. I just hope Drury will be a little hesitant on the term.. some of the comparables like Coyle, Pageau and on and on look real rough. Turris' deal turned into an abomination.

I like this trade. We didn't give up the prime assets which gives us some options to make some other moves in the summer. Copp should be real good for us.. I just hope Drury is smart about the contract in case things so south that we're not locked in too long

 

[mas0764]

Dude come on…..at some point you have to start trading assets, the ONLY reason we aren’t a top prospect pool anymore is because ALL of our best “prospects” are already playing in the nhl

At some point you do.

But I think this is getting off track - I am not saying we shouldn't have traded for Copp.

What started this debate is how "you have to love this or you don't know what you're talking about."

To the contrary. To many people here don't know what they are talking about. We are an incomplete product and we have major issues that need addressing long term still.

The best way to do this was through moves that we declined to make. Now it's harder.

We can enjoy the playoffs this year. I'm all for re-signing Copp to a reasonable deal.

We still need to get some more young forward talent in here though. And that might require selling something or freeing up salary from someone that some people don't like.

And if Drury doesn't get this concept, he's the wrong man for the job no matter how many decent trade deadline deals he makes.

 

[mas0764]

Also @mas0764 I don’t want to pick on you but you seem like someone ok with continual rebuilds. The rangers have built a very solid young team, we didn’t give up any first round picks. The best teams fill out future lineups with solid drafting. For all intensive purposes we are going to live and die on the future of laf and kakko. If they don’t turn into good hockey players then it doesn’t matter that we have up Morgan Barron or 2 2nd round picks. Those 2nds are easily recouped in the off-season

I do not want a "continual rebuild."

People don't remember but I was all aboard for the Panarin signing and the Trouba trade when they happened. Jeez, the fights I was in arguing with people who were against signing Panarin. I was like party #1 advocating why we needed him.

But I also don't want to be a second round exit team that tries to ride a hot goalie for the next decade. I've seen that movie. It doesn't have a happy ending.

We were like 2 more trades away from having a forward core that matched our defensive core. All we needed to do was accept the Kreider for Robertson and a first trade and then maybe like one more deal - either moving out Strome or Buch for a similar package.

We passed on that.

Now we are short critical long term pieces.

Ok, they picked Kreider over more youth. They valued Kreider.

Fine. But they still need the youth from somewhere else. You can't whiff on Andersson, Howden, and Kravtsov and only hit on Lafreniere and Kakko and think everything is fine with your forwards.

We aren't. We need to backfill those 2-3 misses with similar young talents who actually work out.