Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[BaseballCoach]

I wouldnt mind AHL but its gonna be clogged with kids down there so Id rather Kloten or even SHL.


Slaf? He shouldnt be given a free spot. If hes slow off the start, he needs to go down. Being a 10A 6'4 monster doesnt give you a pass.

LOL, last year the "hold them backers" wanted a Laval team full of prospects "growing and winning together".

Now we're worried that Trudeau or Tourigny might be bumped back.

Reinbacher is being pushed by many here to be sent to Kloten IN ORDER to delay his arrival two years, that is SO CLEAR to me. But it is premature to make that decision before seeing him in camp playing with and against NHLers.

 

[dcyhabs]

I mean, if any player wins their spot theyre welcome to be in the NHL.

Winning their spot =/= surviving though, its actually driving play and doing positive things.

Exactly.

If a player shows that they can play a role without being excessively sheltered and without stunting their growth they should play in the NHL. The problem comes up when you have someone like KK who can play some roles as an 18 year old, but only if he is sheltered and avoids risks, and who knows that the coach will bench him if he tries even the slightest risk. The player has to be able to grow at the level, not just survive.

A lot of 1OA players play in the NHL at 18 even if they don't contribute a whole lot because there is nothing for them to learn in junior and they can't play in the AHL. Most don't have stellar first seasons, but then most of them are encouraged to try stuff and to believe that they will make it.

The habs had a whole series of problems with development, bad coaching, bad management decisions, and little off ice support. The coaching is better, the off ice support is better, we'll have to see about the decisions. Keeping Slaf in the NHL really seemed like an old regime "look how good this guy is, we'll play him in the NHL at 18" move and not a path that would get the most out of the player. It's probably a tough discussion to tell a 1OA that he needs AHL time, but I don't think having Slaf get rocked until he couldn't play, or having Guhle repeatedly injured, helped either of their careers. You can't stop guys from getting hurt, but you can at least try a different level if guys are getting rocked or injured repeatedly. Let them work on it with smaller players in a slower league.

Reinbach could probably survive in the NHL, and certainly in the AHL, this year. I'm not convinced he could thrive in the NHL. He could probably do fine, play D, send the puck off the glass and out, but I'd expect that some time in a league where he can play more minutes in a more responsible position with more freedom on offense would help him more than playing "just don't make a mistake" hockey in the NHL while being outmuscled by more mature players.

I don't think it hurts a player to stay at a lower level. Roy won the scoring race and then went back and played on the PK. Suzuki went back to junior and he did well but didn't set scoring records or anything. I don't see Slaf, Reinbacher, KK, Xhekaj, or any of the other young prospects finding the AHL to be an insufficient challenge at this point. I'd rather see them at lower levels, at least until the NHL team stops leading the league in injuries. I think there may be a link between the young guys and the injuries as well, playing 18 year olds who are still growing in an adult league on a young team is going to get some of them hurt. I suppose as long as they actually keep guys out and don't send them back to aggravate their injuries or to get hurt again.

 

[sansabri]

ooh, he bulked up to 209

 

[BaseballCoach]

Really Lekhonen had an almost ideal development path, and weirdly... hes the only one that panned out. (Makes you think)

Love the hindsight. Vejdemo had similar draft rank and path as Lehkonen.

We can't generalize from tiny sample sizes.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I wouldnt mind AHL but its gonna be clogged with kids down there so Id rather Kloten or even SHL.

Same here, I wouldn't mind if they opt to keep him in Laval. Although, as you say, it's going to be clogged up, so back to Kloten is probably the best scenario. Not to mention he's said he'd like to go back to finish his degree.

 

[nhlfan9191]

LOL, last year the "hold them backers" wanted a Laval team full of prospects "growing and winning together".

Now we're worried that Trudeau or Tourigny might be bumped back.

Reinbacher is being pushed by many here to be sent to Kloten IN ORDER to delay his arrival two years, that is SO CLEAR to me. But it is premature to make that decision before seeing him in camp playing with and against NHLers.

I don’t think this is true at all. There isn’t a lot of trust left in this organizations ability to develop players anymore. HuGo got off to a rough start right off the hop with Slafkovsky. Some people think it’s better if Reinbacher stays away until he’s a developed further.

 

[Tyson]

I wouldnt mind AHL but its gonna be clogged with kids down there so Id rather Kloten or even SHL.


Slaf? He shouldnt be given a free spot. If hes slow off the start, he needs to go down. Being a 10A 6'4 monster doesnt give you a pass.

He clearly wasn't ready last season and he should be in consideration for a full season in Laval if need be. I don't think his 39 game stint helped him and watching him get hammered was enough for me.

 

[Mrb1p]

Love the hindsight. Vejdemo had similar draft rank and path as Lehkonen.

We can't generalize from tiny sample sizes.

Have you considered the basic fact that Vejdemo was just never as good as Lekhonen? That plays a pretty big part.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Have you considered the basic fact that Vejdemo was just never as good as Lekhonen? That plays a pretty big part.

Yes, that is my point. Lehky's development path might look good just because he is a better player to start with.

 

[dcyhabs]

Love the hindsight. Vejdemo had similar draft rank and path as Lehkonen.

We can't generalize from tiny sample sizes.

Can't really compare draft rank in different drafts, and there are 30 spots between them in any case, second round vs third is significant. When a team picks they are not going BPA by minutely comparing the skill level of each draftee, they are trying to see who will end up more effective 4 years out. It's guesswork, not science, and you can't expect similarity even for players drafted consecutively in the same Even the top few are very different between draft years, Galchenyuk or Slaf vs McDavid or Crosby. within 10 picks either way of both of them you have better players and many who never came close to the NHL.

Unlike many other habs players neither Vejdemo nor Lekhonen were significantly messed with, though Lekhonen showed he had more to give with better teammates. It doesn't follow that because they weren't messed with they should both have succeeded. Vejdemo did pretty well for a guy who didn't really show offence, and Lekhonen was good.

 

[1909]

I don’t think this is true at all. There isn’t a lot of trust left in this organizations ability to develop players anymore. HuGo got off to a rough start right off the hop with Slafkovsky. Some people think it’s better if Reinbacher stays away until he’s a developed further.

That's the #1 OA tag syndrom. They did not had much choice but keep him.

 

[montreal]

That's the #1 OA tag syndrom. They did not had much choice but keep him.

they had plenty of choices, they chose this, now we see how it pans out.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes, that is my point. Lehky's development path might look good just because he is a better player to start with.

And how do you explain that equally or better players have made other development paths look bad?

 

[1909]

they had plenty of choices, they chose this, now we see how it pans out.

I know, But it is very rare that a #1 OA pick doesn't start at NHL level. Last one was Own Power with Buff who decided to continue at College level for one more season. The one before was Dahlin (?).

Besides SLaf, only Wright played a handful of games. But I do like the fact that Nemec, Jiricek and Kulich played at AHL level. And have done pretty well.

 

[417]

I mean, if any player wins their spot theyre welcome to be in the NHL.

Winning their spot =/= surviving though, its actually driving play and doing positive things.

This assumes that every player on a roster drives play and does positive things at all times.

I get what you're saying, but it has to be more nuanced than that.

OK, did Lehkonen drive play a lot when he first made the club after coming over?

I think it is good enough for a player to be a complementary player, but EFFECTIVE. Is in the right places to help his line create pressure and even better some goals. Perhaps he can be a 2nd unit PKer, that contirbutes too. A rookie winger doesn't have to be the one carrying the puck a lot, in that sense of 'driving'.

Agreed here...it's a bit unfair to expect a player just starting his NHL career to drive play when there are many players on NHL rosters, with much more experience, who don't drive play.

Not every player is going to be able to do that and that doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the NHL as a result of that either.

Kaiden Guhle certainly didn't drive play last year and everyone thinks he looked great as a rookie last year.

 

[Retired]

ooh, he bulked up to 209

Have the lab tests come out?

 

[sansabri]

Have the lab tests come out?

are you referring to growthplategate

 

[montreal]

I know, But it is very rare that a #1 OA pick doesn't start at NHL level. Last one was Own Power with Buff who decided to continue at College level for one more season. The one before was Dahlin (?).

Besides SLaf, only Wright played a handful of games. But I do like the fact that Nemec, Jiricek and Kulich played at AHL level. And have done pretty well.

Doesn't matter what other teams have done though, you have to be smarter then everyone else and Hughes clearly thinks outside the box but on this one I'm not sure he got the best advice as you hate to see anything close to a repeat of KK. But one things for sure this kid is a beast, if he can ever figure it out, look out.

 

[Retired]

are you referring to growthplategate

Actually I had missed Adam’s post in the camp thread; just found it

 

[BaseballCoach]

And how do you explain that equally or better players have made other development paths look bad?

Other development paths have looked both good and bad depending on the player, the club, and other factors.

It is tempting to find the magic bullet and promote the heck out of it, but in real life, it's not that clear cut.

I repeat what I said yesterday. These things are not random. Still, most high draft picks who are brought into the NHL ending up sticking and not regressing badly. By and large, professionals who run the teams get things right more often than wrong. That includes BOTH when they graduate a player fast AND when they do so more slowly.

It's not about which path is best per se, but more like what is best for each player in his own circumstances.

 

[Mrb1p]

Other development paths have looked both good and bad depending on the player, the club, and other factors.

It is tempting to find the magic bullet and promote the heck out of it, but in real life, it's not that clear cut.

I repeat what I said yesterday. These things are not random. Still, most high draft picks who are brought into the NHL ending up sticking and not regressing badly. By and large, professionals who run the teams get things right more often than wrong. That includes BOTH when they graduate a player fast AND when they do so more slowly.

It's not about which path is best per se, but more like what is best for each player in his own circumstances.

Yeah none of that is factual and Id say its mostly lies.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yeah none of that is factual and Id say its mostly lies.

Which statement is not factual?

Most high draft picks who are brought into the NHL ending up sticking and not regressing badly.

Professionals who run the teams get things right more often than wrong. That includes BOTH when they graduate a player fast AND when they do so more slowly.

 

[Hinterland]

I completely forgot that Jeff Tomlinson, for health reasons, actually stepped back into an advisory role. Kloten's new head coach is Gerry Fleming, a former goon (of the Habs organization actually). Of course this could affect Reinbacher's standing in Kloten and I probably don't like him taking part in Montreal's camp quite as much as if Tomlinson was still the man in charge. New head coach is always a risk for players, especially for younger players and if the coach is a hardass. On the bright side for Reinbacher, Fleming was born in Montreal and spent most of his playing career in the area or even within the organization...but still. I guess it would be better for Reinbacher to be in Switzerland now.

 

[Mrb1p]

Which statement is not factual?

Most high draft picks who are brought into the NHL ending up sticking and not regressing badly.

Professionals who run the teams get things right more often than wrong. That includes BOTH when they graduate a player fast AND when they do so more slowly.

Lets take a look.

Starting with 2019, because the others are too young and 2020 was affected by COVID.

Hughes, Dach, Kakko, Heinola were rushed, only Hughes, a special player turned out good, Dach is still up in the air but will likely never reach his true potential.

2018, All top 5 picks were in the NHL the very next year, Tkachuk and Svechnikov were both special players on NHL readiness and Dahlin was too, these guys did not need development, they were good off the bat. Kotkaniemi and Zadina did not have that luck, they busted. More improtantly, these three guys were trusted in key roles and into positions where their career would play out, the latter did not. An overwhelming majority of players that were not drafted in the 15-20 next picks panned out.

2017 is a poster year to make you look like a fool. Only Hischier and Andersson played right away, and Lias was given the typical up-down 4th line treatment. He busted. Hischier was trusted into the position he would play out during his career, a top 6 role. Of the top 13, only Andersson busted, all other players took 1 to 4 years to get a shot at the NHL. Cale Makar, the best defenseman in the NHL by quite a few strides, took two whole years to arrive in the NHL. This year was said to be weak, with no real superstars. It yielded a top 10 center, a HOF and probably generational defender, a top 5 defender, two 1st line center and 6 top 6 wingers in the first 13 picks. Nolan Patrick was on track to being a dominant force too, before being forced to retire due to injuries. Does that not ring a bell to you ? Why was one of the weakest years in recent memory on draft day yield, probably one of the greatest draft in history ?

Ill stop here because that seems like pretty hard evidence and this post is already long enough, but you know full well that this is true for most years. Now, yes, a player can also bust when teams are patient with him, sometimes the player just isn't good, or just doesn't want it. Like Kravtsov or like Juolevi. But sometimes the snow is yellow, and that doesn't mean it isn't white in reality.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I completely forgot that Jeff Tomlinson, for health reasons, actually stepped back into an advisory role. Kloten's new head coach is Gerry Fleming, a former goon (of the Habs organization actually). Of course this could affect Reinbacher's standing in Kloten and I probably don't like him taking part in Montreal's camp quite as much as if Tomlinson was still the man in charge. New head coach is always a risk for players, especially for younger players and if the coach is a hardass. On the bright side for Reinbacher, Fleming was born in Montreal and spent most of his playing career in the area or even within the organization...but still. I guess it would be better for Reinbacher to be in Switzerland now.

Wow what contortions.