Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[417]

Suzuki wasn't rushed. He got to develop his offensive and leadership side for two years in the CHL.

It's pretty typical for a player drafted out of the CHL to play there for 2 years following being drafted. I don't think it contributed to him developing his offensive or leadership side.

If you're drafted in the 1st round...you're pretty much expected to be a leader and and offensive star

 

[ReHabs]

Except the professional league where he played at 17 indeed and the best league in the world at 18, of course.

Two years in a row where he has not dominated against his peers. It's important to use the right facts to support your argument. If you think Slaf wasn't rushed, I'm sure you can come up with another claim to support your point. To suggest he's dominated at every level is simply not appropriate.

I don't like Kloten as a development environment as much as Laval, if the missing piece is NHL time and space.

I don't buy the argument that we must send our 5OA pick to another organization in a weak league playing on an oversized rink ....... in order to give more minutes to William Trudeau and Miguel Tourigny.

Some posters want Mailloux to be the sole top dog in Laval, yet many of those same posters wanted at least 3 of Guhle, Barron, Harris and Xhekaj to all "play together and grow together" in Laval last year, and wanted Slaf there too. Thereis no consistency other than "don't 'rush' anyone".

I suspect the people who want Reinbacher sent back to Europe are purposely suggesting it in order to cause him to have to spend two years away from the Habs. They are afraid that if he plays in Laval this season, he will be ready for the NHL next year, and this is somehow unacceptable in their heads.

I appreciate your consistency. I think I'm perfectly alright with seeing Reinbacher in Laval, I don't see much downside. It is the NHL where I don't like seeing teenagers.

Reinbacher did very well in Switzerland last year, it's a worthwhile topic to see if he's merited a graduation to a harder league. The adaptation to North American ice is a factor too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm curious as to why you would say this.
Do you just not like Swiss Hockey in general?

Weak league, large ice surface. Everyone kmows it's a weak league. If not for that, RB's stats, TOI and performance would have seen him drafted 2OA.

EHC Kloten is actually described in Wikapedia as having one of the best youth systems in Swiss hockey.

Not relevant

There is absolutely no rush to play him in Laval.

LOL, now AHL is a "rush" too.

Why would you when the kid himself said he'd like to play one more year at home to work on some stuff.

He has also said he would play in Laval or Montreal. I'm surmising that David doesn't want to sound cocky or entitled. That's fine.

I'm sure he will do his best in camp, and then the team will decide where they want him to play.

Leave him where he is comfortable. I get the feeling people only want him in Laval in the hopes he graduates the folllowing season. While others see two years as more realistic.

I hope he graduates yesterday, wins the Calder next June and the Norris the following year.

But my hopes are not what the team should go by.

The team should evaluate him fully and then play him at the level where he is good enough to be a regular. If that is not Laval, then Kloten is ok. If they think he can handle Laval, they should send him there.

If they think he can handle an NHL regular shift, he should play in Montreal. Whenever that is. I don't think he should be handed an NHL job this year automatically, nor do I think he should be automatically held back one or two levels..

It's all about his readiness, and Jeff Gorton said he will be given a chance to show what he can do. That's fine with me. More than fine actually, it is the right approach, IMO.

 

[Jaynki]

Two years in a row where he has not dominated against his peers. It's important to use the right facts to support your argument. If you think Slaf wasn't rushed, I'm sure you can come up with another claim to support your point. To suggest he's dominated at every level is simply not appropriate.

I dont think he was rushed.

Stats and data suggest he was as good as any average 4th liner.

Was he ready for top six duty? No.
Was he disappointing relative to former 1st overall? For what its worth, yes.

But i do think that Montreal were in a position to give him NHL icetime and i think there is a lot of upside to that.

I don't buy the narrative that confidence is something you lose or gain depending on performance in certain league. I believe confidence is an inherent state of mind that you can and have to work on, wherever the f*** you play and perform.

I also don't buy the narrative that he can be ruined by playing sheltered 4th line minutes in the NHL. There is no jurisprudence to support that claim, in fact there is jurisprudence to prove the opposite of that.

I believe there is nothing like NHL icetime. There is no substitute to that. And that is not simply during the game, but also thats a lot of high quality practicing time.

I believe if Montreal were in a playoff-oriented state of performance, Slaf would have played AHL and we would have a seen a low maintenance vet in his spot. But we could afford to give him this time and this care. NJ and Seattle were not in the same spot as us with their 2022 draftees.

***Although Slaf did not dominated in Liiga at large., he dominated the OG and the WC. He also dominated in his 10 last liiga games after the OG. But for some reasons(i would think those reason are the Wright biases), this is seen as an outlier or a too small sample size and is being disregarded even if its like a 1% thing ever for any DY player in history. Post OG liiga + OG + WC combine for 22 points in 25 games. Its actually a bigger sample size than the 21 games where he had 4 points but still generated a lot despite being unproductive. (I have a chart to illustrate that last point.)

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I believe there is nothing like NHL icetime. There is no substitute to that.

Not for building confidence. There's a reason why most kids go through the A, even if shortly.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not for building confidence. There's a reason why most kids go through the A, even if shortly.

They go to the A when they are not ready for the huge step from Junior to NHL or even the pretty big step from European league to NHL. If the latter were not the case, then washed up NHLers would not exile themselves to Europe to revive some production. The KHL is the only league that rivals the AHL, but it is difficult to control a player's development there, and the cooperation that exists with other pro leagues is non-existent. To boot, players are often treated brutally.

As to your confidence theme, it is pretty obvious that the one thing rookies coming in to the NHL don't usually lack is confidence. They did well at their previous level in almost all cases. If a relatively short training camp could take away the confidence they arrived with, then it is probable that the player realized that he is not ready for the NHL. He needs to go to the AHL not to gain confidence, but to avoid drowning.

 

[Jaynki]

Not for building confidence. There's a reason why most kids go through the A, even if shortly.

I don't agree with the consensual view around here on confidence.

I don't think KK nor Caufield gained any confidence during their AHL stint. At best, i think we simply irritated our most talented prospect. At worst, it contributed to KK decision to leave and i think it put our relationship with Caufield in a perilous spot. Luckily, those dinosaurs are now not there anymore.

To me, confidence is not something that you gain or lose relative to the performance of the league you play in.

I don't think Slafkovsky lost confidence struggling in the NHL nor do i think Shane Wright gained confidence dominating the CHL again.

Confidence is a state of mind first and foremost. Players are responsible for their own confidence and its something that have to be worked on constantly.

Its not the by product of performance, much less offensive production in a lesser league.

Its actually the other way around. High confidence will lead to better performance and consistency.

I could also think of a dozen of reason prospects goes to the AHL before being NHLers that are unrelated to confidence.

 

[Sorinth]

I don't agree with the consensual view around here on confidence.

I don't think KK nor Caufield gained any confidence during their AHL stint. At best, i think we simply irritated our most talented prospect. At worst, it contributed to KK decision to leave and i think it put our relationship with Caufield in a perilous spot. Luckily, those dinosaurs are now not there anymore.

To me, confidence is not something that you gain or lose relative to the performance of the league you play in.

I don't think Slafkovsky lost confidence struggling in the NHL nor do i think Shane Wright gained confidence dominating the CHL again.

Confidence is a state of mind first and foremost. Players are responsible for their own confidence and its something that have to be worked on constantly.

Its not the by product of performance, much less offensive production in a lesser league.

Its actually the other way around. High confidence will lead to better performance and consistency.

I could also think of a dozen of reason prospects goes to the AHL before being NHLers that are unrelated to confidence.

I half agree with you. It's doubtful the AHL stints for KK/Caufield did anything, and it's doubtful Wright gained confidence in the CHL this year. Slaf didn't really seem to lose any confidence playing in the NHL either.

Doing well in a lower league can help a player's confidence if they feel they are developing/on the right track. But for guys who think they belong in the NHL, getting sent down hurts their confidence more then helps it.

Players are ultimately responsible for their own confidence as you say, but the environment can and does play an integral role in building and maintaining someones confidence.

 

[Jaynki]

They go to the A when they are not ready for the huge step from Junior to NHL or even the pretty big step from European league to NHL. If the latter were not the cawse, then washed up NHLers would not exile themselves to europe to revive some production. TYhe KHL is the only league that rivals the AHL, but it is difficult to control a player<s development there, and the cooperqtion that exists with other pro leagues is non-existent. To boot, players are often treated brutally.

As to your confidencer theme, it is pretty obvious that the one thing rookies coming in to the NHL don't usually lack is confidence. They did well at their previous level in almost all cases. If a relatively short training camp could take away the confidence they arrived with, then it is probable that the player realized that he is not ready for the NHL. He needs to go to the AHL not to gain confidence, but to avoid drowning.

Exactly.

Sometimes what they lack is physical maturity or simply the ability to pierce an extremely contingented 23 man roster at a young age.

Distinguishing themselves in the AHL then becomes the path forward to an NHL career.

But to think that they will gain magical confidence in the AHL or that they will have "better icetime" in the AHL in my humble opinion is simply not true.

Although its the path for 99% of the drafted players, the AHL is a sad, boring league were many, many players will realise that their NHL dreams is rapidly slipping away.

 

[Jaynki]

I half agree with you. It's doubtful the AHL stints for KK/Caufield did anything, and it's doubtful Wright gained confidence in the CHL this year. Slaf didn't really seem to lose any confidence playing in the NHL either.

Doing well in a lower league can help a player's confidence if they feel they are developing/on the right track. But for guys who think they belong in the NHL, getting sent down hurts their confidence more then helps it.

Players are ultimately responsible for their own confidence as you say, but the environment can and does play an integral role in building and maintaining someones confidence.

Well, favourable environmental and external factor will undoubtebly play a role, but its all starting from a positive, confident state of mind.

 

[DAChampion]

Those of us who actually watched Kotkaniemi in the AHL saw his hockey improve nearly game by game until the spleen injury. Had he sustained those minutes and opportunities for a season like he should have he would be a much better player.

 

[Jaynki]

Those of us who actually watched Kotkaniemi in the AHL saw his hockey improve nearly game by game until the spleen injury. Had he sustained those minutes and opportunities for a season like he should have he would be a much better player.

Speculation like this can't be taken for granted and Kotkaniemi might as well be the same he is today even if he sustained those minutes in the sad AHL.

For example, i don't think Jack Hughes would be the megastar he is today if he played one more NCAA season and then one AHL season. I think it benefitted him greatly to be challenged for two seasons in the NHL.

Speculations like these are not argument. They are biases. We have to deal in facts.

Back to Kotkaniemi, he also signed an offer sheet and left the team that drafted him 3 years ago because he felt he was mistreated. We all soured on him but i don't think sending him in the AHL (along with healthy scratching him) contributed anything positively in our relationship with him.

 

[BaseballCoach]

i don't think Jack Hughes would be the megastar he is today if he played one more NCAA season and then one AHL season. I think it benefitted him greatly to be challenged for two seasons

It's really not that complicated.

Young draftees by nature come into their first training camp trying to make the NHL with confidence from the previous year(s) excelling at lower levels.

One in a thousand makes the NHL team and starts on the first or second line or in a top-3 D role.

One in a hundred makes the team and starts on the third or fourth line or bottom 3-D role.

Most don't make the team first time, and if eligible for the AHL are sent down to the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th lines or 4th, 5th 6th or 7th D pair. They toil in the AHL (or even ECHL) until they reach the 5th line or 4th D pair, and become injury callups and eventually if they keep improving graduate to the main club to start usually on the 4th line (or bottom pair)

They are most often not ahead of those who made the team out of the gate, they are not MORE CONFIDENT, they are simply slower developers or have a lower ceiling. Occasionally, not often, a player who makes the team young crashes out, like say Yakupov or Louis Leblanc. (Just an aside, Galchenyuk is NOT in this category, He remained good enough to play in the NHL for years, improved, and even hit 30 goals and 1 ppg over 46 game stretch - then he got hurt in his D+5, rehabbed badly.....). But more often than not the players selected to play in the NHL after their first training camp do well. Mistakes are more rare than success when professionals are choosing.

Occasionally, players who are close to the NHL level are sent to the AHL with a view to it being a brief stint for them to work on "X". The 'X' is never confidence. Demotions to address a confidence issue would come AFTER a player made the NHL then regressed and got lost mentally.

Last year when Guhle, Harris and Xhekaj all made the Habs out of camp, while Barron did not, this had nothing to do with confidence, and everything to do with defensive positioning. The weakest of the four went down to work on that and came back better after a few months.

 

[DAChampion]

We have to deal in facts.

Exactly, let's deal in facts.

Having actually watched Kotkaniemi in the AHL, he was placed in a first line role and given ample minutes in all situations. He was allowed to make mistakes. Within a few games, his game began to grow dramatically. More shots, more forechecking, etc cetera, he was showing strengths not previously seen. He then got an unfortunate spleen injury. When he came back, there were the Covid playoffs against Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, against whom he played his best hockey as a Hab. An opposing player said their strategy centered on Suzuki and Kotkaniemi.

 

[Jaynki]

Exactly, let's deal in facts.

Having actually watched Kotkaniemi in the AHL, he was placed in a first line role and given ample minutes in all situations. He was allowed to make mistakes. Within a few games, his game began to grow dramatically. More shots, more forechecking, etc cetera, he was showing strengths not previously seen. He then got an unfortunate spleen injury. When he came back, there were the Covid playoffs against Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, against whom he played his best hockey as a Hab. An opposing player said their strategy centered on Suzuki and Kotkaniemi.

I 100% agree with all you state here.

The parts i disagree is the assumption that Kotkaniemi would be better today had he played in the AHL in his younger years.

Kotkaniemi is a pretty good player but he is what he is. I think the problem with him was the rank selection and not the league he played at 18. Ultimately, his ceiling is capped and it looks like KK will attain it as a strong, versatile middle six C. What hurts is seeing Brady Tkachuk picked after him. (Also the way it all ended with KK)

Playing more in the AHL would have given the impression of a smoother, more fluid development curve but that's it.

Development is not something linear and there is no secret formula. Its full of variance. Players don't bust because they are rushed nor do they end up with higher ceiling because they play more years in minor leagues. Yakupov and Galchenyuk busted for other reasons than being rushed. Joe Thornton, Jack Hughes and Leon Draisaitl have not suffered from struggling early in their career. Jesse Puljujarvi did not end up a better player even if he had many AHL stint. I think it might even be dangerous. I think our former administration risked a lot sending Caufield down.

I believe there is nothing like NHL icetime and that is also true for practice. You don't learn the NHL by playing in the AHL. When a young player has the physical maturity and the talent to handle the NHL, even if its in a bottom six role with sheltered minutes, and you can afford him this care and attention, i believe there is no better spot to learn than in the NHL. Obviously, context do matter a lot. I think Slafkovksy is very well surrounded in Montreal with MSL who is a unicorn. Kent Hughes is also an expert in player development in his former agent role. Lecavalier was also in a pretty similar spot at 18. I would be more worried if Slafkovsky was let to himself under Therrien and Bergevin but i would also be worried if he was in the AHL under f***ing Lefebvre.

That is nothing more than my humble opinion.

 

[DAChampion]

Playing more in the AHL would have given the impression of a smoother, more fluid development curve but that's it.

... Players don't bust because they are rushed nor do they end up with higher ceiling because they play more years in minor leagues.

Speculation, let's stick to facts

 

[Jaynki]

Speculation, let's stick to facts

Than it looks like KK will reach his ceiling of a strong, versatile middle six C ;-)

 

[montreal]

I don't agree with the consensual view around here on confidence.

I don't think KK nor Caufield gained any confidence during their AHL stint. At best, i think we simply irritated our most talented prospect. At worst, it contributed to KK decision to leave and i think it put our relationship with Caufield in a perilous spot. Luckily, those dinosaurs are now not there anymore.

To me, confidence is not something that you gain or lose relative to the performance of the league you play in.

I don't think Slafkovsky lost confidence struggling in the NHL nor do i think Shane Wright gained confidence dominating the CHL again.

Confidence is a state of mind first and foremost. Players are responsible for their own confidence and its something that have to be worked on constantly.

Its not the by product of performance, much less offensive production in a lesser league.

Its actually the other way around. High confidence will lead to better performance and consistency.

I could also think of a dozen of reason prospects goes to the AHL before being NHLers that are unrelated to confidence.

Everyone is different, so confidence either gaining or losing will impact everyone in different ways.

So 100%, some people in life when starting their career and are put in a job that's too far out of their skill level/knowledge, it can impact said person greatly while another person would just shrug it off because of so many various factors in how people react to things that have major impacts on ones very future.

Some players will benefit from being highly confident while other players will struggle badly with their confidence. If you struggle in the NHL at a young age, some will question if this career is right for them, which can lead to all kinds of issues that people that study this kind of thing could likely go into more depth on.

To put it simply, the human mind is very tricky to try and understand, emotion, confidence, stress, etc... so many factors at play here.

In the case of KK and Caufield, clearly both are very different people, you see Caufield much like Subban in the highly confident way. But I'm sure when he had just 1 goal even he was second guessing himself to some degree. Now with highly confident people they may not have much issue with getting confidence back once they start scoring again, as of course logic would say that anyone that is struggling and then goes to an easier job but starts doing great again is going to benefit from that in some way.

KK on the other hand, he doesn't seem like the high confident type, his comments about going down to Laval and doing well speak volumes but this has all been talked about so much. I think in the end most people have a very poor understanding of development, the mental side of not just hockey since the comments in this thread are f***ing insane to me but it's a slippery slope as my background is in Finance, I really got taken up with the whole psychology thing in my Freshman year at college. It's why I enjoyed listening to Guy Boucher talk when he was Hamilton's HC, about sports psychology and working with prospects.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I dont think he was rushed.

Stats and data suggest he was as good as any average 4th liner.

Was he ready for top six duty? No.
Was he disappointing relative to former 1st overall? For what its worth, yes.

But i do think that Montreal were in a position to give him NHL icetime and i think there is a lot of upside to that.

I don't buy the narrative that confidence is something you lose or gain depending on performance in certain league. I believe confidence is an inherent state of mind that you can and have to work on, wherever the f*** you play and perform.

I also don't buy the narrative that he can be ruined by playing sheltered 4th line minutes in the NHL. There is no jurisprudence to support that claim, in fact there is jurisprudence to prove the opposite of that.

I believe there is nothing like NHL icetime. There is no substitute to that. And that is not simply during the game, but also thats a lot of high quality practicing time.

I believe if Montreal were in a playoff-oriented state of performance, Slaf would have played AHL and we would have a seen a low maintenance vet in his spot. But we could afford to give him this time and this care. NJ and Seattle were not in the same spot as us with their 2022 draftees.

***Although Slaf did not dominated in Liiga at large., he dominated the OG and the WC. He also dominated in his 10 last liiga games after the OG. But for some reasons(i would think those reason are the Wright biases), this is seen as an outlier or a too small sample size and is being disregarded even if its like a 1% thing ever for any DY player in history. Post OG liiga + OG + WC combine for 22 points in 25 games. Its actually a bigger sample size than the 21 games where he had 4 points but still generated a lot despite being unproductive. (I have a chart to illustrate that last point.)

Just to be clear I was liking the last paragraph of Slaf’s stats. That’s good context.

 

[Jaynki]

Everyone is different, so confidence either gaining or losing will impact everyone in different ways.

So 100%, some people in life when starting their career and are put in a job that's too far out of their skill level/knowledge, it can impact said person greatly while another person would just shrug it off because of so many various factors in how people react to things that have major impacts on ones very future.

Some players will benefit from being highly confident while other players will struggle badly with their confidence. If you struggle in the NHL at a young age, some will question if this career is right for them, which can lead to all kinds of issues that people that study this kind of thing could likely go into more depth on.

To put it simply, the human mind is very tricky to try and understand, emotion, confidence, stress, etc... so many factors at play here.

In the case of KK and Caufield, clearly both are very different people, you see Caufield much like Subban in the highly confident way. But I'm sure when he had just 1 goal even he was second guessing himself to some degree. Now with highly confident people they may not have much issue with getting confidence back once they start scoring again, as of course logic would say that anyone that is struggling and then goes to an easier job but starts doing great again is going to benefit from that in some way.

KK on the other hand, he doesn't seem like the high confident type, his comments about going down to Laval and doing well speak volumes but this has all been talked about so much. I think in the end most people have a very poor understanding of development, the mental side of not just hockey since the comments in this thread are f***ing insane to me but it's a slippery slope as my background is in Finance, I really got taken up with the whole psychology thing in my Freshman year at college. It's why I enjoyed listening to Guy Boucher talk when he was Hamilton's HC, about sports psychology and working with prospects.

Good post and i do agree with pretty much everything you say.

Concerning the confidence theme, obviously each person is different and its a subject that is full of nuance. But when we are talking about NHL 1st RD pick, we won't assess this subject like we would with our typical average joe.

 

[Toene]

He looks a bit like Timothé Chalamet

 

[montreal]

But when we are talking about NHL 1st RD pick, we won't assess this subject like we would with our typical average joe.

a mistake imo. No matter what round, or what job, lots of people struggle with confidence in their career for so many reasons. It's impossible to know what goes through anyone's head or how they will handle any situation.

 

[KevSkillz4]

He looks a bit like Timothé Chalamet

Criteria to be a Habs players by a Habs scout:

- Good looking.
- Baby face.
- Muscles.
- Great hair style.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

According to Basu Reinbacher is

6’3 209 pounds today at camp

6’2 194 pounds on draft day

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Everyone is different, so confidence either gaining or losing will impact everyone in different ways.

So 100%, some people in life when starting their career and are put in a job that's too far out of their skill level/knowledge, it can impact said person greatly while another person would just shrug it off because of so many various factors in how people react to things that have major impacts on ones very future.

Some players will benefit from being highly confident while other players will struggle badly with their confidence. If you struggle in the NHL at a young age, some will question if this career is right for them, which can lead to all kinds of issues that people that study this kind of thing could likely go into more depth on.

To put it simply, the human mind is very tricky to try and understand, emotion, confidence, stress, etc... so many factors at play here.

In the case of KK and Caufield, clearly both are very different people, you see Caufield much like Subban in the highly confident way. But I'm sure when he had just 1 goal even he was second guessing himself to some degree. Now with highly confident people they may not have much issue with getting confidence back once they start scoring again, as of course logic would say that anyone that is struggling and then goes to an easier job but starts doing great again is going to benefit from that in some way.

KK on the other hand, he doesn't seem like the high confident type, his comments about going down to Laval and doing well speak volumes but this has all been talked about so much. I think in the end most people have a very poor understanding of development, the mental side of not just hockey since the comments in this thread are f***ing insane to me but it's a slippery slope as my background is in Finance, I really got taken up with the whole psychology thing in my Freshman year at college. It's why I enjoyed listening to Guy Boucher talk when he was Hamilton's HC, about sports psychology and working with prospects.

You're pretty much bang on. Doubt can easily make its way into people's head, even the most confident ones. Behavioral development is extremely complicated because they are gazillion factors that go into our life experiences and mold our behavior.