Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[Lafleurs Guy]

I claim that players making the NHL team underage or from their first camp is the exception and not the rule, and that in those cases where teams make that choice, it works a majority of the time.

Management is not infallible, but we ought to believe that all the things we amateurs bring up trying to make categorical pronouncements based on some specific player not blossoming are things they already consider as well.

Management is comprised of human beings and they are not perfect and can make mistakes, some more often than others. No question that the Bergevin team was by and large less competent than its rivals throughout the league. They over-evaluated Victor Mete by a large margin, I don't know how they could think that this guy was such a dominant player that he could skip the AHL and join the NHL not at 20, but even 19. Holy cow! I'm sure hubris played a role. The need to to try to PROVE that Sergachev was not really required going forward must have taken over Bergevin's puny-brain.

But playing in the NHL at 19 when the player can skate at NHL level is not something that should NEVER be done either. Tampa played Sergachev in the NHL at 19 in the very same year Montreal rostered Mete. One decision worked out, the other was spectcularly bad.

This does not mean that had the Habs sent Mete back to London for a year, and then had him learn in the AHL for two years that he would have turned out as good as Sergachev. Surely not, in my opinion. Their biggest mistake was overestimating Mete's ceiling to begin with, after his strong D+1 year playing against Juniors. But possibly had he started in the NHL at 22, he might have carved out a more steady bottom six role. We will never know.

I get that the Mete and KK experiences soured Montreal fans on the idea that young players can make an NHL team at their first camp or under 20, and succeed.

But it does not mean that it should NEVER be done. Also saying no at 18 does not always mean that it should be no again at 19. These are all judgment calls regarding when a player is ready to start in the NHL and grow and learn from the competition as opposed to being crushed by it and not progressing at all. The environment in the NHL and the goals of the team are part of the equation for sure. So is the emotional maturity level of the player. And finally, so is the position played. It is tougher to manage in the NHL at D and at C than on wing.

Regarding Reinbacher specifically, I like that managment is willing to give him a chance at this camp. I think it is normal for such a high pick to have that opportunity to be seen and evaluated. I would be very surprised if David makes the NHL squad this year, but I am not ready to insist with certainty today that making the team next year should be ruled out of the question, no matter what.

Whether you agree with me or not, I am quite comfortable that my thinking is not that of 'a fool'. But if your self-esteem requires you to insult others whom you are engaged with, I guess I can't help you.

What’s the rush? Seriously.

We’re not contenders. We’re taking our time developing… what’s the hurry?

 

[Jaynki]

It sounds like you're saying that putting players in the NHL before they're ready can result in bad things, and I just don't understand how that could possibly be.

If a player's gonna play in the NHL he's going to play, how could putting him in the NHL possibly ruin him?

Can you give one example of a players whose career has been ruined by being rushed?

Yakupov and Galchenyuk is auto-sabotage. Not being rushed.

KK will reach his ceiling despite being rushed, being in a shitty organisation and being misused for three years. He simply was overdrafted 3-4 spots. KK should be the ultimate proof of your claim in your first paragraph yet its the exact opposite. Being rushed did not resulted in any permanent damage to KK career.

Jack Hughes, Dahlin, Thornton, does not feel like they suffered struggling at 18YO in the NHL.

Development is inherent to a player. Physical skills and genetics, mental skills, dedication, growth. All way more important than the league where they plays.

Joshua Roy may never make it because in the end, he don't display NHL skillset. As sad as that. Where as Slaf already has the physical maturity to sustain the NHL and he has massive NHL skillset. Is he really being rushed when you can mentor him through all of that? Dominating minor league is glitters if you don't display NHL-level skills through all of that.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It sounds like you're saying that putting players in the NHL before they're ready can result in bad things, and I just don't understand how that could possibly be.

If a player's gonna play in the NHL he's going to play, how could putting him in the NHL possibly ruin him?

Playing over your head is not great because you stop being yourself. The amount of sheltering Mete got was unheard of. Latendresse was drafted 45th and was never going to be a superstar. I don't know if he was "ruined" by playing early in the NHL but I think he could have done a little better with more proper placement.

 

[Jaynki]

What’s the rush? Seriously.

We’re not contenders. We’re taking our time developing… what’s the hurry?

Its not about a rush.

Its about the NHL being a better place to learn than minor league for some gifted players.

There is no substitute to NHL icetime and practice. You don't learn the NHL pace and physicality playing in the AHL, the step is enormous.

There is strong upside to play sheltered 4th line minutes in the NHL.

I dont know why but it feels like a tough concept to grasp.

The AHL and the CHL f***ing sucks. 99% of the players have to go through them because its the only way to the extremely contingented NHL but those league f***ing sucks.

The AHL is the place where so many career and dreams dies. Not the ideal development league.

 

[DAChampion]

Playing over your head is not great because you stop being yourself. The amount of sheltering Mete got was unheard of. Latendresse was drafted 45th and was never going to be a superstar. I don't know if he was "ruined" by playing early in the NHL but I think he could have done a little better with more proper placement.

Latendresse kept getting injured, not a good example.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Looked solid skating, passing and movement. Was on the ice for 2 goals where he was responsible for "messing" up.

The 2nd one you could argue that others on the ice left him alone/didn't communicate there was a player behind him.

 

[Mudz]

He looked slow. Too fat. Thanks Kloten

 

[BaseballCoach]

What’s the rush? Seriously.

We’re not contenders. We’re taking our time developing… what’s the hurry?

I'm not in a rush over anyone particular. All I am saying is that once a prospect is ready to play a regular shift in the NHL, it's probably best he play there and get better by playing with and against other top players.

Time is not an infinite resource. And development in a lesser league is not always time efficient. Top players do not develop as fast once they are too good for a league.

I think Tampa was smart bringing Sergachev into the NHL at 19 and letting him develop against the best. That way, by the time McDonagh declined, he was ready to take over as #2. Had they taken lots of time because he was not defensively perfect and only brought him up at 22, I do not believe that he would be in the same place at 23-24 as he actually was. So for example, Reinbacher coming in next year at 19, if he can handle 3rd pairing, might be good as he could be ready for big minutes when Matheson starts to decline. But this should only be done if Reinbacher will be trusted enough to actually play real 3rd pair minutes (14-15 minutes at least) and not the crumbs you give a 7th-8th who has to play as a #6.

Looking elsewhere, I think Ottawa was right to have Tkachuk and Stutzle skip the AHL.

But just because those exceptions worked out does not mean that EVERY first rounder should skip Junior year(s) and/or the AHL.

They need to be ready, and furthermore the team has to be willing to have them learn on the job and not destroy them mentally for making mistakes.

 

[Jaynki]

Latendresse kept getting injured, not a good example.

No, an excellent example.

He attained his ceiling in the end. Playing more CHL/AHL would have changed nothing.

Injuries got the best of him. He had good season and good stretch throughout his career.

 

[DAChampion]

For example, watching Riley Kidney and Sean Farrell, i don't see players with NHL skillset despite them killing their own league.

Maybe not but they've earned a shot at good AHL ice time and the opportunity to prove themselves.

It's also the case that MSL bumped up Farrell's ice time in the last few games last year.

 

[Jaynki]

He looked slow. Too fat. Thanks Kloten

He was the best player out there for both teams. Looked the most like an NHL players.

Maybe not but they've earned a shot at good AHL ice time and the opportunity to prove themselves.

It's also the case that MSL bumped up Farrell's ice time in the last few games last year.

Agree. They will to distinguish themselves through the AHL grind.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Its not about a rush.

Its about the NHL being a better place to learn than minor league for some gifted players.

There is no substitute to NHL icetime and practice. You don't learn the NHL pace and physicality playing in the AHL, the step is enormous.

There is strong upside to play sheltered 4th line minutes in the NHL.

I dont know why but it feels like a tough concept to grasp.

The AHL and the CHL f***ing sucks. 99% of the players have to go through them because its the only way to the extremely contingented NHL but those league f***ing sucks.

Most teams do what you suggest in fact. And you did say GIFTED players, not every scrub.

People often cite the Red Wings as an example of an organizaton that usually played their draft picks in the AHL for some amount of time.

But they overlook that for 20 years they did not draft ANYONE higher than 15th. It's normal for guys drafted later in the first round to have some weakness that needs correcting befgore the hard but more rewarding period of NHL development can take place.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Its not about a rush.

Its about the NHL being a better place to learn than minor league for some gifted players.

There is no substitute to NHL icetime and practice. You don't learn the NHL pace and physicality playing in the AHL, the step is enormous.

There is strong upside to play sheltered 4th line minutes in the NHL.

I dont know why but it feels like a tough concept to grasp.

The AHL and the CHL f***ing sucks. 99% of the players have to go through them because its the only way to the extremely contingented NHL but those league f***ing sucks.

The AHL is the place where so many career and dreams dies. Not the ideal development league.

I’d much rather prospects get top minutes and dominate at lower levels than joining the big club and getting 4th line/3rd pairing minutes.

Haven’t we learned our lessons by now?

 

[Jaynki]

Most teams do what you suggest in fact. And you did say GIFTED players, not every scrub.

People often cite the Red Wings as an example of an organizaton that usually played their draft picks in the AHL for some amount of time.

But they overlook that for 20 years they did not draft ANYONE higher than 15th. It's normal for guys drafted later in the first round to have some weakness that needs correcting befgore the hard but more rewarding period of NHL development can take place.

The Red Wings are not an example for anything tho if you want my opinion. They feel mismanaged as f*** and like a f***ing mess. They are rebuilding forever and they have nothing to show.

Raymond and Larkin thrived tho despite being rushed.

I’d much rather prospects get top minutes and dominate at lower levels than joining the big club and getting 4th line/3rd pairing minutes.

Haven’t we learned our lessons by now?

Id much rather prospects get NHL minutes rather than meaningless minutes in insignifiant league. Assuming they have the NHL skillset and physical maturity to sustain the pace and physicality which Slaf had.

99% of the players have to go through the AHL and distinguish themselves because the NHL is extremely contingented.

But the AHL is the place where dreams and career goes to die. Its not the golden path to development. Its a sad league.

Which lesson whould we have learned?

KK will reach his ceiling as a strong, versatile middle six C, despite being in a shitty organisation, without proper mentoring and being misused for three fkcng years. He was simply overdrafted.

The lesson here is that the AHL may have contributed at souring our relationship with him. Same with Caufield.

 

[Rapala]

Looked solid skating, passing and movement. Was on the ice for 2 goals where he was responsible for "messing" up.

The 2nd one you could argue that others on the ice left him alone/didn't communicate there was a player behind him.

Yeah he got caught both times by breakdowns he wasn't expecting. The play came flying back at him faster than he could react. That stuff usually works itself out simply by knowing who you are on the ice with. Chances are if he comes across the same scenario in the neutral zone he hangs back a bit making sure the puck gets deep. Funny enough some players are reliable and others not so much knowing who is or isn't is a big help.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The Red Wings are not an example for anything tho if you want my opinion. They feel mismanaged as f*** and like a f***ing mess. They are rebuilding forever and they have nothing to show.

Raymond and Larkin thrived tho despite being rushed.


Id much rather prospects get NHL minutes rather than minutes in insignifiant league.

99% of the players have to go through the AHL and distinguish themselves because the NHL is extremely contingented.

But the AHL is the place where dreams and career goes to die. Its not the golden path to development. Its a sad league.

99’percent of players go through the AHL because it’s the best way to develop prospects.

Connor Bedard? Okay, it’s probably be a waste of time for him. But most players get to dominate, gain confidence, develop… by the time they get to the NHL they’re far more ready.

If RB does two years in the minors he’s going to be a lot more prepared to come into the lineup than he would be now. There’s no rush.

 

[Jaynki]

99’percent of players go through the AHL because it’s the best way to develop prospects.

Connor Bedard? Okay, it’s probably be a waste of time for him. But most players get to dominate, gain confidence, develop… by the time they get to the NHL they’re far more ready.

If RB does two years in the minors he’s going to be a lot more prepared to come into the lineup than he would be now. There’s no rush.

99% percent goes to the AHL because they cant cut it early in their career.

You don't learn the NHL playing in the AHL.

Reinbacher will grow the same and will be the same at 20YO wherever he plays. Tho, when he will start his 22YO season, he will probably be more ready if he has NHL experience at 21 instead of AHL. He will be a step above.

The AHL is sad and there is no confidence to gain nor better development to be had. You go there to distinguish yourself when you cant cut it. Thats it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

99% percent goes to the AHL because they cant cut it early in their career.

You don't learn the NHL playing in the AHL.

Reinbacher will grow the same and will be the same at 20YO wherever he plays. Tho, when he will start his 22YO season, he will probably be more ready if he has NHL experience at 21 instead of AHL. He will be a step above.

The AHL is sad and there is no confidence to gain nor better development to be had. You go there to distinguish yourself when you cant cut it. Thats it.

I’ll just say I disagree with you and move on. I didn’t like us rushing Slaf and I hope we don’t do it with RB.

 

[Jaynki]

I’ll just say I disagree with you and move on. I didn’t like us rushing Slaf and I hope we don’t do it with RB.

Respect. We aim for the same goal after all and we just want our team to succeed.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yeah exactly, you don't learn to be an NHLer by playing in other leagues. Did Kaprizov learn to be an NHLer by playing in the KHL? No. Did Rantanen and Pastrnak learn to be NHLers in the AHL? No. Did Moritz Seider learn to play in the NHL by playing in the AHL and SHL? No.

God some people just won't let it go.

 

[Jaynki]

Yeah exactly, you don't learn to be an NHLer by playing in other leagues. Did Kaprizov learn to be an NHLer by playing in the KHL? No. Did Rantanen and Pastrnak learn to be NHLers in the AHL? No. Did Moritz Seider learn to play in the NHL by playing in the AHL and SHL? No.

God some people just won't let it go.

Would they have been ruined had they skipped their AHL year?

 

[Rapala]

But the AHL is the place where dreams and career goes to die. Its not the golden path to development. Its a sad league.

I wonder if you can provide examples of where this actually happened to an NHL calibre talent? Some players spend very little time at that level and just need to get their feet wet. Others take longer for a number of reasons and often it's simply a glut of players above them. The ones who are tweeners are tweeners. Look at Charles Hudon for example truly talented but not able to put it all together in the NHL. Did he not get enough proper development time in the 134 games he played? There are plenty of examples of "a dime a dozen players" who only get NHL time because of circumstance. But I can't think of any guys who stagnated in the AHL. If they didn't graduate they just weren't good enough.

 

[zx81]

Latendresse kept getting injured, not a good example.

Lats developped into a potential 30 goal scorer and then got concussions after concussions. He was rushed into returning from his concussions more than rushed into the NHL.

 

[Jaynki]

I wonder if you can provide examples of where this actually happened to an NHL calibre talent? Some players spend very little time at that level and just need to get their feet wet. Others take longer for a number of reasons and often it's simply a glut of players above them. The ones who are tweeners are tweeners. Look at Charles Hudon for example truly talented but not able to put it all together in the NHL. Did he not get enough proper development time in the 134 games he played? There are plenty of examples of "a dime a dozen players" who only get NHL time because of circumstance. But I can't think of any guys who stagnated in the AHL. If they didn't graduate they just weren't good enough.

It don't happen with actual NHL talent. I would argue its also tough to rush an actual NHL talent.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Would they have been ruined had they skipped their AHL year?

I'm just agreeing with the statement that you don't learn how to play in the NHL outside of the NHL. I mean, there are so many examples of people who didn't learn how to play in the NHL outside of the NHL. If you think about it, it's really just an obviously true statement since players often also play their minor hockey - midget, bantam, atoms - in the NHL. I can't believe people would disagree with such a well thought out idea.