Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[WeThreeKings]

This.

All day.

Nothing against Reinbacher the person or player. The habs just took the wrong approach.

Did they? Or did they see more value in a top pairing right shot defenseman?

Only caveat for the Ducks and Columbus saying that they would fill an organizational need is pretty convenient given their drafting slot and bring guaranteed to be able to draft one, who just happened to be the BPA by most accounts. So, I don’t know how much weight I’d put on that plus the whole dog and pony show that GMs manufacture pre-draft to fool counterparts.

As for Reinbacher, not sure where the drop off was after the top 4, and if there was one after the top 4, how steep it was. Could also be that a Habs viewed Reinbacher, Leonard and Dvorsky within a similar level and at that point, tilted the balance cause they felt he filled an organizational need better than the others.

We’ll never know so what’s done is done.

That's what Hughes said at the draft lottery presser.

If the talent (read: tier) of player is the same, then you'd look at position and say well if it's a left shot defenseman we would place them lower in that tier.

So Reinbacher was in their highest remaining tier with other players (Leonard, most likely) and if he was a left shot defenseman, they probably would have gone Leonard.

That just makes sense and it doesn't mean they drafted FOR need, it meant the fit was part of ranking players in that tier.

 

[Whitesnake]

You talked about value earlier, this is a good example of RD being more valuable in their eyes to RW.

But if so, it means that everytime there's hesitation between 2 picks, and 1 is a RD, you will always pick the RD? So that you use him yourself or trade him because other teams don't have enough of?

If the talent (read: tier) of player is the same, then you'd look at position and say well if it's a left shot defenseman we would place them lower in that tier.

So Reinbacher was in their highest remaining tier with other players (Leonard, most likely) and if he was a left shot defenseman, they probably would have gone Leonard.

That just makes sense and it doesn't mean they drafted FOR need, it meant the fit was part of ranking players in that tier.

Well I guess it's a quesetion of semantics then. While 1 isn't that far from the other...Is Reinbacher in the same tier as the others and they picked him 'cause the final decisive factor was the position he played in? Or does the position he play in made him to be in the same tier as the others? 1st statement might be BPA or a variant of it. 2nd statement is needs in my book.

 

[417]

But if so, it means that everytime there's hesitation between 2 picks, and 1 is a RD, you will always pick the RD? So that you use him yourself or trade him because other teams don't have enough of?

Not always, organizational needs should be considered and lets not kid ourselves, they always are.

But if you happen to have glut of RDs, that might influence your decision.

Ultimately, if you view 2 or more players as”equal”, something has to tip the scales at some point.

 

[WeThreeKings]

But if so, it means that everytime there's hesitation between 2 picks, and 1 is a RD, you will always pick the RD? So that you use him yourself or trade him because other teams don't have enough of?


Well I guess it's a quesetion of semantics then. While 1 isn't that far from the other...Is Reinbacher in the same tier as the others and they picked him 'cause the final decisive factor was the position he played in? Or does the position he play in made him to be in the same tier as the others? 1st statement might be BPA or a variant of it. 2nd statement is needs in my book.

He was pretty clear that it was a differentiation factor for players in the same tier. Never once did it sound like their philosophy was to move a player into a higher tier

 

[Whitesnake]

He was pretty clear that it was a differentiation factor for players in the same tier. Never once did it sound like their philosophy was to move a player into a higher tier

Seems to me that he was mostly saying right shot D vs left shot D. Of course, if you clearly can compare about the same type of players, if this year at 5 we have a choice between Nemec and Reinbacher, and we go Reinbacher, you might have a point. Benson, Michkov, Leonard vs Reinbacher...still not sure how you can be this guy in the same group. Though, again, I'm not saying Reinbacher belong in the 20's....

I guess it's purely human and surely easier to look at what you need and draft from there.

Thing is, it's tough with that scouting group to give them the benefit of the doubt when you see the entirety of the draft and look at the goalies and D's they went for...And frankly...there is NO WAY that Xhekaj was the BPA at his spot. We went toughness need ahead of BPA there too. Xhekaj was this year's Connor Crisp.

Mind you, the best pick they did make this year was to a goalie in Fowler. And maybe the best bet they took was also with another goalie in Miller. Just saying that this draft smells need all over. So tough for me to believe that Rein wasn't a need as well. That's all.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not that stretch of a pick. But it was clear before Hughes comment. Clearer once he commented. We still went needs. Because RD is the new Centerman....tough to get. Not saying he was a bad pick, he was in my top 10.

Who would you have taken above him?

 

[Theokritos]

You have to go way back when names were given by occupation. Apparently the family were good pure bakers,hence the name Rein,meaning pure and Bacher meaning baker.

Bach means creek, so actually Reinbacher would translate to "Purecreeker". There are several streams named Reinbach ("Pure Creek") in the German-speaking part of Europe. Most likely an ancestor of the player came from one of them.

 

[Whitesnake]

Who would you have taken above him?

My Final Top 12:
Bedard
Michkov
Fantilli
Carlson
Smith
Leonard
Benson
Reinbacher
Dvorsky
But
Moore
Barlow

So if I follow my list, it's Michkov. If we don,t take Michkov..it's Leonard or Benson.

 

[SlafySZN]

My Final Top 12:
Bedard
Michkov
Fantilli
Carlson
Smith
Leonard
Benson
Reinbacher
Dvorsky
But
Moore
Barlow

So if I follow my list, it's Michkov. If we don,t take Michkov..it's Leonard or Benson.

Benson was picked 13th. He wasn’t an option near the top 5 for any team.

If the habs didn’t pick Reinbacher the yotes would’ve had.

 

[HabbyGuy]

This podcast fits well into the discourse going on right now. Some Reinbacher love, despite initial disappointment.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

My Final Top 12:
Bedard
Michkov
Fantilli
Carlson
Smith
Leonard
Benson
Reinbacher
Dvorsky
But
Moore
Barlow

So if I follow my list, it's Michkov. If we don,t take Michkov..it's Leonard or Benson.

Leonard is interesting. Power game from a guy who isn’t that big. He’d have been cool to have but I have reservations around his size for the style of game he has and also he played with Smith. How much of his offense came from his linemates? I don’t know. I would’ve been happy with Leonard though.

Mich has a size issue but I’d have overlooked it and drafted him. Just too much potential. Benson though doesn’t have that upside and is another small player. We already have Suzuki and CC. With Benson it becomes a really small top six. I’d do it for Mich ‘caus you have to but I think I’d go RB over him.

 

[Whitesnake]

Benson was picked 13th. He wasn’t an option near the top 5 for any team.

If the habs didn’t pick Reinbacher the yotes would’ve had.

Thank god Benson was my 3rd option then. As far as the Yotes, we don't know. Teams always love to circulate the fact that EVERYBODY wanted their player.

Here's the interview where Armstrong said that they took the 2 best players on their list. And if your response is...well every GM will say that. That they picked the best players...well every GM will ALSO say how their player was such in demand...

 

[Goldthorpe]

So Reinbacher was in their highest remaining tier with other players (Leonard, most likely) and if he was a left shot defenseman, they probably would have gone Leonard.

Just imagine if Reinbacher was a LD how much flack HuGo would have gotten for drafting him, in arguably the habs deepest organisational position. Unless we're talking Dahlin talent, it doesn't make sense to stack a position just because you chose to go blind at the draft and not think about your organisation as a whole, or at the overall value of the player within the league.

Bach means creek, so actually Reinbacher would translate to "Purecreeker". There are several streams named Reinbach ("Pure Creek") in the German-speaking part of Europe. Most likely an ancestor of the player came from one of them.

As long as it doesn't translate into Reinbuster I'm good.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Seems to me that he was mostly saying right shot D vs left shot D.

I think all they were really saying there is that unless the talent was overwhelming they wouldn't have invested a high-value pick on another LD when they already have Guhle, Matheson, Harris, Xhekaj, Hutson, Engstrom, Trudeau, etc. at the same position.

Benson, Michkov, Leonard vs Reinbacher...still not sure how you can be this guy in the same group.

Michkov was a unique situation and they clearly just decided they didn't want to go that route, I don't think that element really indicates their "needs vs BPA" tendency going forward. Otherwise, Leonard went 8th and Benson at 13th, and we can be very confident that Reinbacher wasn't getting past 6, while Bob McKenzie's list had Leonard at 6, Reinbacher at 8, and Benson at 9.

If you believe they're better/higher-tier players than Reinbacher that's a reasonable opinion, and the teams who passed on Leonard/Benson certainly aren't necessarily right to have done so, but I don't really see why you would be skeptical that the Habs just thought Reinbacher was the best of the three.

Thing is, it's tough with that scouting group to give them the benefit of the doubt

You don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt for being correct, just the benefit of the doubt that the front office believed Reinbacher was better than Leonard and Benson. I didn't really like Xhekaj but he was the only pick of that type they made, and I don't think 4th and 5th rounders really have much bearing on their process at 5OA anyway. Slafkovsky would be the stronger datapoint anyway, with positional needs at C and RD they passed on two guys at each position to take the toolsy LW because they thought Slafkovsky had the highest ceiling.

 

[SlafySZN]

Thank god Benson was my 3rd option then. As far as the Yotes, we don't know. Teams always love to circulate the fact that EVERYBODY wanted their player.

Here's the interview where Armstrong said that they took the 2 best players on their list. And if your response is...well every GM will say that. That they picked the best players...well every GM will ALSO say how their player was such in demand...

It’s not the habs who circulated that. It’s been known during the year that the coyotes were all in on Reinbacher.

 

[Whitesnake]

Anyway, enough of that. Time to support and hope David develops and just helps us. No matter what the others ones will do for the other teams.

 

[Rapala]

This is a funny debate 3C's go after Bedard and just about everyone had them as BPA despite Michkov apparently having more talent.
We step up at 5 and Michkov does not fit the profile the Habs laid out for us. We didn't see him play and there were rumblings about attitude issues.
So we are looking the rest of the best. They happen to cover two of our glaring positional needs. It boils down to where any given person had Reinbacher on their list compared to the wingers. We had him at five or at the very least equal to the second tier the wingers. How far down the list would Reinbacher have had to be for it to become a pick based strictly on needs? Michkov aside I read that most people had 6-8 or even 6-9 as a relatively equal tier.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Benson was picked 13th. He wasn’t an option near the top 5 for any team.

If the habs didn’t pick Reinbacher the yotes would’ve had.

Benson was an option. He was available.

 

[Andrei79]

Anyway, enough of that. Time to support and hope David develops and just helps us. No matter what the others ones will do for the other teams.

Tough not to like the kid. You want a good hockey players, but when he's got character and charisma, it's just a great bonus. Guys like Bergeron and Suzuki are like this.

 

[Jaynki]

Benson was an option. He was available.

Ark !

 

[BenchBrawl]

Ark !

! krA

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Benson was an option. He was available.

@SuzukiSZN is right tho. You gotta ask yourself, why did Arizona pass on him? Then you gotta ask yourself, why did Philadelphia pass on him? Next ask yourself, why did Washington pass on him? Once you're finished contemplating that, ask yourself, why did Detroit pass on him? After that, ask yourself, why did St Louis pass on him? Following that line of questioning, you gotta ask yourself, why did Vancouver pass on him? Finally, you have to ask yourself, why would Arizona pass on him for the second time?

 

[BenchBrawl]

@SuzukiSZN is right tho. You gotta ask yourself, why did Arizona pass on him? Then you gotta ask yourself, why did Philadelphia pass on him? Next ask yourself, why did Washington pass on him? Once you're finished contemplating that, ask yourself, why did Detroit pass on him? After that, ask yourself, why did St Louis pass on him? Following that line of questioning, you gotta ask yourself, why did Vancouver pass on him? Finally, you have to ask yourself, why would Arizona pass on him for the second time?

Because of his size and of his skating. Despite this, he's potentially the next Joe Sakic.

Sakic was the same as a prospect.

Who cares about what teams do, really? Teams are terrible at drafting. Drafting right is a hard game.

Drafting science is mostly a scam, so that the house of cards and the whole infrastructure of jobs stays in place.

 

[417]

This is a funny debate 3C's go after Bedard and just about everyone had them as BPA despite Michkov apparently having more talent.
We step up at 5 and Michkov does not fit the profile the Habs laid out for us. We didn't see him play and there were rumblings about attitude issues.
So we are looking the rest of the best. They happen to cover two of our glaring positional needs. It boils down to where any given person had Reinbacher on their list compared to the wingers. We had him at five or at the very least equal to the second tier of wingers. How far down the list would Reinbacher have had to be for it to become a pick based strictly on needs? Michkov aside I read that most people had 6-8 or even 6-9 as a relatively equal tier.

I think people underestimate this issue...imagine having the opportunity to pick a player in the top 5, yet you haven't been able to watch him play the last couple of years except on video, you won't be able to go see him or have any say/control on how he's developed or to track his progress. All while your head scout's father, is a member of the player's organization.

It's a very unique situation, different if you're a team sitting outside the top 5 though...

anyways, enough has been said about that situation.

 

[le_sean]

Drafting for need is just a reality with the way these elite kids train at such a young age. They don’t need to bulk up or learn the ropes in the AHL until 23 anymore. A lot of them are there physically and talent-wise at 18, they just need to get used to the speed of the NHL. So yeah, when you know the player will be ready to contribute in 1-2 years, need can come into play.