This is true. It's early so Im not overly concerned, but my issue with Quinn right now is he doesn't seem to have the team ready to battle. And I thought, at least last season, that was one of his biggest strengths.
Player Discussion David Quinn
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This is true. It's early so Im not overly concerned, but my issue with Quinn right now is he doesn't seem to have the team ready to battle. And I thought, at least last season, that was one of his biggest strengths.
I think the coach got more out of the team than most expected last year.
But I also think you're selling a whole bunch of skaters short if you think it was just goaltending during those runs. They were lucky to have one of the best goalies in the league back stop, so they played to those strengths. Maybe they win a cup with another coach, I don't know possible I guess. But I don't think it was some coaching or organizational philosophy considering they went out a signed every big name free agent and traded 1st round picks away every deadline. But Talbot, Raanta and maybe even Georgiev's success may be more about Allaire than any coaching philosophy.
Totally. But for now, I'm going with the weird schedule. They've also had a ton of turnover form last years roster to this one, it's going to take some time.
That is completely fair. But again, it is only 4 games and look how far they have been spaced apart. But yes, they intensity needs to return.
- Jul 20, 2005
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Most of the "system" issues do not concern me too much. Its early and we've had a lot of turnover. Those things tend to shake themselves out in time. If players are still bumping into each other and unsure of whether to dump or carry the puck in when we get to December I will be concerned.
Actually he only system thing that bothers me, and it was a problem last year too, is the D's disinterest in applying pressure at the blueline, even with low risk defending like breaking up a stretch pass to a parked opposition forward. There has to be some middle ground between being passive at the line and being so aggressive that you leave yourself exposed. Crappier and less mobile defenses have figured it out.
Actually he only system thing that bothers me, and it was a problem last year too, is the D's disinterest in applying pressure at the blueline, even with low risk defending like breaking up a stretch pass to a parked opposition forward. There has to be some middle ground between being passive at the line and being so aggressive that you leave yourself exposed. Crappier and less mobile defenses have figured it out.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
You don't that they wouldn't!
My biggest gripe — that should be easily fixable is this team — takes a lot of bad, undisciplined penalties.
That and the lack of battle is what the issue for me is. But it is 4 games. If they are playing the same way around Thanksgiving, then some sort of alarm bells can go off.
Thought that there needed to be a stronger response to the Hall hit on Fox.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
The latter two are one thing, the former is more concerning. You don't want your rookies to be taking such hits without retaliation. Skeji's half hearted take down was not nearly enough. Not at the moment, and certainly not for rest of the game.
I don’t particularly like Quinn. I didn’t last year either, but with Zucc, Hayes and Vesey on the roster and Chytil and Lias being actual rookies, his line choices were a little more obvious. Knowing we were going to sell made it easier to just coast through the season and accept things as they came. I don’t expect this to be a playoff team and don’t mind being a lottery team, but I feel like I care more about the player usage this year. I actually think Chytil should be up. Regardless of a slow preseason he played a full year last year and is burning a year off his ELC. If we thought he was still slouching after 10 games we could simply send him down. I don’t mind him starting down there, but I want to see him brought up by November, honestly. If he struggles you just send him back. I liked seeing Lias get more ice time and being trusted on the PK but the kid is making very smart reads and helping sustain pressure in the O zone. A lot of us are seeing that in the game threads so if Quinn isn’t seeing it that’s a red flag to me. He doesn’t have to have elite skills to be a compliment to the other guys on his line in a top six role. Howden looks abysmal so I’m not sure what Quinn thinks he sees there that Lias isn’t showing. Does Howden dangle the goalie in practice? Who cares? And I honestly would have Nieves and Lettieri in the lineup over Haley and McKegg. They’re not NHL players. In 72 NHL games Nieves has 19 points. In double that McKegg has 24. If this is going to be a developmental year all around than put the kids in positions to succeed. Kreider and Buch should be moved off PP1. Let Kaako and Fox get a taste. We were what, 0-6 last night yet PP1 had nearly 9 minutes of PP ice time. And Staal being deployed as a shutdown defender. Quinn, you know players age and decline right? Just because you were told he was a shutdown guy doesn’t mean he’s shutting anything down. These are all very questionable decisions, IMO.
I did say explicitly that it wasn't just goaltending. It was very much mostly goaltending, and still is. I don't think Quinn got more out of the team last year, though I did think he got more out of some players--Hayes and Kreider especially.
I agree, though my biggest gripe system-wise is the lack of puck support in the offensive and defensive zones. Our breakout is still two options: throw it up the boards to their waiting defenseman, or swing it around the net to the other side and throw it up the boards to the other defenseman. Our forecheck has no coherence. It's a simple tenet in hockey, F1 takes the body, F2 takes the puck. In our case, F1 and F2 crash into each other and end up behind the play coming back the other way.
His usage is a problem. Of course it's early and I'm also not hitting the panic button or turning on Quinn. But I'm also not blind to the issues that persist from last year. They all come with some reasonable (see: conventional) explanation, but when they continue to get the same results (jumbled play all over the ice, players in over their heads, dysfunction at every level, and incremental if not nonexistent growth in young players) then it becomes a redux of AV: 'we just didn't execute,' 'we know how we need to play but for some reason didn't,' 'we need a better effort.'
I'm with you especially on Nieves and Lettieri. The typical reasoning falls short. And people can repeat ad nauseum that you play veterans over kids for the sake of dependable play and fewer collapses, but when those things still happen all you're left with are those collapses with no upside, stagnating development, and depreciating assets. Like, what if Nieves plays and by the deadline looks like a solid 4c/lw. You've either plugged a hole without paying an FA or trading, or you've got an new asset to flip.
- Jul 16, 2005
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I became a fan of the Rangers when I was 11 years old back in 1994 when they won the Cup.
Of course I lapsed a bit during their down years when I was a busy teenager but started following again more and more with the arrival of Hank and Jagr and their return to consistent playoff hockey. I don't recall much of the dialogue around Renney, but I do recall that eventually everyone turned on Tortorella. Then they turned on Vigneault. Now we are already turning on Quinn.
Seems a little boy who cried wolf-ish to me. Yes, I know, NHL coaching is often a revolving door to find the right match with your players, but it just seems like blaming the coach is always the go to move without having to engage in any kind of critical analysis.
Of course I lapsed a bit during their down years when I was a busy teenager but started following again more and more with the arrival of Hank and Jagr and their return to consistent playoff hockey. I don't recall much of the dialogue around Renney, but I do recall that eventually everyone turned on Tortorella. Then they turned on Vigneault. Now we are already turning on Quinn.
Seems a little boy who cried wolf-ish to me. Yes, I know, NHL coaching is often a revolving door to find the right match with your players, but it just seems like blaming the coach is always the go to move without having to engage in any kind of critical analysis.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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There's quite a lot of analysis behind the criticism of Quinn this time.
IronBloodedLion
Registered User
He’s made some really puzzling decisions, but the team has only played 4 games and have had a bizarre schedule, and I think the play reflects that. Also a lot of times you also don’t really know what you have until you’re into December.
haveandare
Registered User
I agree. It doesn’t make for fun discussion in a forum like this but anything we can try to eeek out of these few games with this crazy schedule is likely to be a dead end.
he is experimenting with the light schedule. i don't see that as an issue. now if he says this in Jan than Gorts is trying to raise trade value of some players in my opinion like Strome.
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
Wait a minute! WeNeverGetaGoodAnything is now Kakko Schmakko?
And he seriously isn't a fan and a skeptic of Kakko?!
And he seriously isn't a fan and a skeptic of Kakko?!
When the Rangers win games, its the players. When they lose games, its the coach's personnel deployment. That's how it seems to go around here.
If I recall when we were 2-0 with Zbad on pace for a million points we were still saying too much Strome, what has Howden done to earn ice time, why doesn’t Lias get a shot with actual wingers and how is Staal still our top shutdown guy?
Good for you. I, on the other hand, am at peace with the reality that:
1. The center depth is hot garbage behind Zbad
2. The defense is largely garbage/very young behind Trouba
3. This is still a rebuilding roster and painfully thin
It's going to be a game of musical chairs. Deal with it.
Did musical chairs change since the last time I played or are we no longer talking about the stubborn non-changes to the lineup re: Staal, Howden, Strome, Lias...?
I’m not in disagreement with any of that. My only issue was the notion that people didn’t care about the player deployment when we were off to a hot start. You’re right, this is the season we’re going to have. It’s still worthy of discussion. I’m not angry or having a hard time living with this reality, I’m just here to talk about the team.
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Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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I know we don't see the practice and off-ice stuff, but I'm have a hard time understanding: (1) Strome and Howden over Andersson and Chytil; (2) scratching Lemieux against the Devils; and (3) Smith as 3LF and sixth skater. I'm getting Mickey Callaway vibes.
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