Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[Chytilmania]

"The old East-West flu we have from time to time can be a detriment."

 

[will1066]

Quinn just called the east-west hockey a flu on the team.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

.

Best. Post. Yet.

 

[smoneil]

03-22-2021–04-23-2021

Chytil / 17 GP / 11 PTS
Kakko / 18 GP / 10 PTS
Lafreniere / 18 GP / 8 PTS

Average / 82 GP / 45 PTS

Funny that you don't mention how 4 (14%) of the points you reference above were scored today, in a game where Quinn...did exactly what we've been clamoring for him to do with Lafreniere.

Also funny that you don't mention the fact that even though Chytil and Kakko in particular have been producing like this for a month now, that month coincides with steep drops in Chytil's TOI/G numbers. Literally, he's getting punished for playing well. He's also regularly one been one of the teams best shot generators.

I don't hate Quinn. He's doing great work with the kids on D and has been for a couple years now, but he is so clearly out of his depth working with the forwards

 

[CLW]

Quinn just called the east-west hockey a flu on the team.

Fire Quinn, the 60s want their troglodyte back.

 

[huerter]

Is playing alongside the best players and producing more actual development or artificial development? Not that points matter anyway.

 

[CLW]

Best. Post. Yet.

Have you rewarded Quinn another pineapple yet?

 

[Tawnos]

Funny that you don't mention how 4 (14%) of the points you reference above were scored today, in a game where Quinn...did exactly what we've been clamoring for him to do with Lafreniere.

Also funny that you don't mention the fact that even though Chytil and Kakko in particular have been producing like this for a month now, that month coincides with steep drops in Chytil's TOI/G numbers. Literally, he's getting punished for playing well. He's also regularly one been one of the teams best shot generators.

I don't hate Quinn. He's doing great work with the kids on D and has been for a couple years now, but he is so clearly out of his depth working with the forwards

The bolded is a little bit of an exaggeration and a little bit of a misdirection. His even strength time, where he's produced all of his points, only dropped by about 30 seconds per game in that month compared to 3/2-3/20 (the stretch after he came back from injury). That's pretty natural aberration for a 3rd line player. Much of it also coincides with Kravtsov turning the 4th line into a legitimate tool. Rooney's ES TOI has gone up by about 20 seconds per game since Kravtsov arrived.

Where Chytil really lost TOI was on the powerplay, where he played on the second unit regularly in his first 15 games back, and hasn't played on it since. In those 15 games where he had that spot, he had no powerplay points.

There are all sorts of reasons why he didn't produce on the powerplay, including the over-reliance on PP1, and I would prefer him back on the 2nd unit now instead of Blackwell. But Chytil hasn't lost significant ice time in the spot where he's been productive, making your claim of punishment a mixed bag. Sure, he is "punished" by being taken of PP2, but he was literally producing nothing there, so I'm not sure he didn't deserve it. And he hasn't been punished where it matters, unless you want to frame a minor aberration of less than 1 shift per game as some kind of punishment.

 

[smoneil]

The bolded is a little bit of an exaggeration and a little bit of a misdirection. His even strength time, where he's produced all of his points, only dropped by about 30 seconds per game in that month compared to 3/2-3/20 (the stretch after he came back from injury). That's pretty natural aberration for a 3rd line player. Much of it also coincides with Kravtsov turning the 4th line into a legitimate tool. Rooney's ES TOI has gone up by about 20 seconds per game since Kravtsov arrived.

Where Chytil really lost TOI was on the powerplay, where he played on the second unit regularly in his first 15 games back, and hasn't played on it since. In those 15 games where he had that spot, he had no powerplay points.

There are all sorts of reasons why he didn't produce on the powerplay, including the over-reliance on PP1, and I would prefer him back on the 2nd unit now instead of Blackwell. But Chytil hasn't lost significant ice time in the spot where he's been productive, making your claim of punishment a mixed bag. Sure, he is "punished" by being taken of PP2, but he was literally producing nothing there, so I'm not sure he didn't deserve it. And he hasn't been punished where it matters, unless you want to frame a minor aberration of less than 1 shift per game as some kind of punishment.

Overall, he's playing nearly two full minutes less per game than he did last year. This is the lowest TOI/G of his career, 30 seconds per game less than his 9 game cup of coffee season in 17/18.

He played 16 games in March, playing a total of 219:39. He's had 13 games in April. For him to hit his March totals, he'd have to play about 20 minutes per game for those three games, and that's not even taking into account the fact that Knobloch gave him a couple of games over 15 minutes in March (something Quinn hasn't done since Chytil's first two games back from injury).

Since 3/27, 11 of Chytil's 16 games have fallen below his current season average TOI/game, and he has regularly been among the bottom of the roster (usually one of the bottom two) during that span.

Call it whatever you want, but this team has one good young (sub-25 year old) center, he's actually been playing really solid hockey going back to the play in series last year, and his ice time has been slashed. It makes no sense. Chytil's ppg pace at even strength would put him neck and neck (with Chytil a point ahead) with Strome. Put Panarin on Chytil's left, give him Strome's additional 5+ minutes per night (which is largely made up of PP1 time), and I would be shocked if Chytil didn't at least match what Strome is doing.

 

[True Blue]

That's hardly my point.

Do you think this counted as a playoff game!

 

[True Blue]

Quinn just called the east-west hockey a flu on the team.

A plague on both of your houses.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

I don’t think people realize how much opportunity this organization has literally handed to Kakko and Lafreniere (which is obviously the correct thing to do.) 0 AHL games. 0 scratches. Their first shifts were in an NHL top-six, PP spot included.

Was this the right move? Kakko was clearly out of his depth last year.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

Quinn just called the east-west hockey a flu on the team.

I mean he is not exactly wrong. The overreliance on lateral passing(in many cases into multiple defenders)is nausating at times. Its even more aggrevating when players defer to pass while having a shooting opportunity in the slot.

If the team is going to take the next step, they have to diversify their attack. Garbage goals and going to the dirty areas is usually the only way to beat defensive teams like the Islanders(who give no lanes or space).

Not to mention, for a team that wants to be a puck possession team: the Rangers are often very careless and sloppy with the puck.

How many lazy backhand passes do we see that lead to odd man rushes the other way?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I don’t think people realize how much opportunity this organization has literally handed to Kakko and Lafreniere (which is obviously the correct thing to do.) 0 AHL games. 0 scratches. Their first shifts were in an NHL top-six, PP spot included.

This is true, and yet it is still toward the lower end of opportunity afforded to 1OA and 2OA picks in their rookie years. There are plenty of valid and questionable reasons for this, but it is a fact.

Players picked this high are generally treated differently than other prospects, and IMO for good reason.

 

[huerter]

I mean he is not exactly wrong. The overreliance on lateral passing(in many cases into multiple defenders)is nausating at times. Its even more aggrevating when players defer to pass while having a shooting opportunity in the slot.

If the team is going to take the next step, they have to diversify their attack. Garbage goals and going to the dirty areas is usually the only way to beat defensive teams like the Islanders(who give no lanes or space).

Not to mention, for a team that wants to be a puck possession team: the Rangers are often very careless and sloppy with the puck.

How many lazy backhand passes do we see that lead to odd man rushes the other way?

Oh good heavens no. Sam and Joe are really brainwashing a generation of fans. Cover your ears.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Have you rewarded Quinn another pineapple yet?

 

[Ola]

Is playing alongside the best players and producing more actual development or artificial development? Not that points matter anyway.

Fair question, but yes, I definitely think so.

The reason for that is that you cannot practice everything outside actual games. The only way to learn how to create offense in games at the highest levels is to actually play in offensive situations at that level. Things just happens so insanely fast when you are on the ice. On top of that 5 guys are skating around at 30-40 km/h who would love to send you out on a stretcher. All the while you got to have soft hands and be relaxed overall to have any balance.

Take playing with the puck on the PP. You cannot just start doing it with the necessary poise, mix of reading the play and executing in the split of a second when that is needed or keeping calm when that is needed — out of the blue. I am not at all fond of the idea of someone like Kakko not running a PP for 3-4 years, with expectations that he all of a sudden will be able to pick it up. Same for a Laf of course.

 

[Doctyl]

Oh good heavens no. Sam and Joe are really brainwashing a generation of fans. Cover your ears.

Honestly look at the roster composition. There are 9 very talented forwards on this roster and Christ incarnate on defense. Is this buffoon really coaching them to play north-south hockey?

 

[Ola]

This is true, and yet it is still toward the lower end of opportunity afforded to 1OA and 2OA picks in their rookie years. There are plenty of valid and questionable reasons for this, but it is a fact.

Players picked this high are generally treated differently than other prospects, and IMO for good reason.

Yeah, and it’s towards the lower end — in the history of the game. On guy got less PP time than Laf the last 35 years and that was a 6’6 giant center in Joe T who just needed to grow into his body.

It’s not about doing the kids favors, you make a commitment when you bring in an 18 y/o. If you can’t play him you shouldn’t bring him in, it’s as simple as that. Those years at 18-20 is way to important for your development to sit on the bench watching others play.

The worst examples of kids development totally derailing is when they are rushed to the NHL and then played in a smaller role when they are 18-20. The worst.

I know many will dish this of as conjuncture, but I can dig up 15 old posts I’ve made on those very topic trashing the Oilers, on for example their development of Puljujärvi. Now we are doing this.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I don’t hate the guy

 

[jay from jersey]

Is playing alongside the best players and producing more actual development or artificial development? Not that points matter anyway.

I think LaF may surprise people in a first line role with some PP time. Confidence is a fickle thing. If the kid thinks he has the coaches backing and good things happen he will definitely gain valuable experience playing more minutes down the stretch. Even if the points don’t pile up, they need to be on the ice playing, making mistakes and learning from them and creating chances and being rewarded like last night. Confidence is key for a talented player and I think well see more of it in the final games. But like I said, as well as many I wish he made this move a few weeks back

 

[jay from jersey]

I mean he is not exactly wrong. The overreliance on lateral passing(in many cases into multiple defenders)is nausating at times. Its even more aggrevating when players defer to pass while having a shooting opportunity in the slot.

If the team is going to take the next step, they have to diversify their attack. Garbage goals and going to the dirty areas is usually the only way to beat defensive teams like the Islanders(who give no lanes or space).

Not to mention, for a team that wants to be a puck possession team: the Rangers are often very careless and sloppy with the puck.

How many lazy backhand passes do we see that lead to odd man rushes the other way?

The main thing with the overpassing is the lack of overall shots, whether they are in a high danger area or not everyone in the hockey world fans and coaches alike know goals and scoring chances are generated by rebounds, crazy deflections, etc. the more shots they take the more goals are going to be scored in the chaos. It may not look as pretty as a perfect no look pass. But it’s needed to move on when the overall defensive game tightens up

 

[The New Russian Five]

Honestly look at the roster composition. There are 9 very talented forwards on this roster and Christ incarnate on defense. Is this buffoon really coaching them to play north-south hockey?

It's a real issue. The rangers hired an old school, as North American as they come, north-south coach for a young, talented, European heavy, East-West team. It's really no wonder why our offense looks so discombobulated sometimes. They are being directed to play different hockey than the DNA of the team requires.

Scotty Bowman was a genius coach, because he knew how to play to the strengths of his European players.

I don't blame Quinn for this mess, I blame the guys that put him there.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't understand why this sentiment is so easily glossed over by some. I'm necessarily pro-Quinn per se, either. But I am willing to look beyond just coaching as to reasons why the team like the Rangers is playing like a team like the Rangers.

But that's all well and good and there are other reasons but every time Quinn gets criticized you have hoards of his supporters getting condescending and insulting. Then in order to sound fair and balanced the same supporters that can't let a single criticism of his go say "there's this perplexing perception that Quinn supporters think he can do no wrong". What exactly do you expect the perception to be when every post criticizing the man is met with the same condescending and insulting responses attacking the person that did it". There are a few supporters of his that haven't been condescending and insulting but usually they're not the ones who are criticized by the Quinn critics.

Let me give you an example from my Facebook habits. I'm middle of the road politically, in some ways liberal and in some ways conservative. Because most of my FB page are hysterical liberals I would mostly make posts that were criticizing them and liberals in general. Then people thought I was an avid Trump supporter even though I voted against him twice. For the longest time I thought "well these people don't understand nuance, these people are just ideologues who think anyone that disagrees with them is far right". Then a time came and I realized if the only thing that I post on FB is criticism of liberals, what do I expect the perception to be? People aren't mind readers.

 

[effen]

I'd like to know the names of these 'hoards of supporters' of David Quinn. I'd guess they number less than 7.... and some of them are just trolling some truly absurd spinning in circles nonsense posting.

I'm preeeettay sure there's more people who disapprove of him than approve. Just a hunch. Just a few.