Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Or maybe it is just that reading in every single thread and virtually every single post that somehow winds up that all is Quinn's fault gets a bit tiresome? Especially when it is the same trolls tying the same thing over and over and over again.

The ultimate irony is: me and my fellow "Quinnbros" aren't even all that attached to him. He's far from perfect.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I'll have the conjecture. And make it a double.

Management has messed up big time. KK and Laf should have been sent off to Europe to actually play and develop if they wanted so badly to make a playoff push

Look at this, think hard and what is the takeaway? Maybe making a playoff push was not the primary goal of the season.

You have kids who are scared of making mistakes and play low event/cycle third line hockey which isn't a bad thing but they can't do it well enough yet because they are not those type of players and never have been.

And you know this, how?

On top of that, they are letting Quinn get away with stuffing all three of them on one line so he can bench them even if it's not their fault but just because the game is too close for comfort.

Who is "they"? The people who have the ability to replace him at a moments notice? I wonder why they haven't....

I don't see the plan here and if Panarin and Fox weren't such elite hart/norris finalist type of players we would be getting demolished and we would have absolutely nothing to show for it if it wasn't for them.

If my aunt had a package, she'd be my uncle. I wonder what the Rangers will do when Panarin and Fox leave the team many years from now.

Imagine KK and Laf coming here towards the end of this season after playing serious minutes in Europe somewhere coming in looking like actual developed top prospects instead of the mid round draft picks we are stuck with right now.

We did see it. It was called last year with Kakko. And he looked gassed.

I would love to hear your rant is Lafreniere had gone to Europe been injured. That would have been a fun thread. Who would get the blame for that Quinn or Gorton?

The rangers highest draft picks ever are not being developed.

Source? I guess the FO have no idea what they're doing. Or, they don't want them to develop. Yeah, that's it!

They bought into the hype of these two players and figured they could come in and just be inserted into the top 6 with no issues.

Careful, your contradiction is showing.

Instead of saying, damn we f***ed up let's ship these guys out and develop them...

Ship them out to where?

nope, lets leave them here with our HC that has no interest in developing young players.

The front office should be arrested for treason. Maybe they should follow the Devils' model...

 

[Tawnos]

I think some of the issues I have with the pro-Quinn group center around a need to defend obviously flawed choices the guy makes by ignoring the obvious choice he made by clouding it over with "it's a young team...". For example, yesterday, playing a guy who has not played since February over Hajek, who, while not looking incredible, has looked serviceable-- and that decision almost costing them 2 points( Bitetto was out there for 2 goals in the third) is just a BAD coaching move. Simple as that-- and there are many of those just BAD coaching moves made throughout his time here. It is entirely possible to be a bad coach who works with young players all the while having those young players develop. It's also entirely possible to be a good NHL coach, who is not well suited to work with young players. Coaches deserve to be evaluated by choices they make that are entirely up to them. We can all point to several that are just hard to justify this year alone. I'm looking ahead and trying to see what a team like this will look like this time next year under Quinn and I just don't think it would look like a tightly run, well organized, system based team. I see some of that starting to emerge which makes me less determined Quinn must go after this season but, a realistic projection into the future means realistically evaluating the decision making ability of the guy in charge of the bench, and when looked at objectively, he's botched more up than he's solved.

I don't disagree with much of this, but I do have a couple of fundamental problems with some of what's written here.

One is an assumption (or maybe it isn't and Quinn addressed it in post-game... if so, ignore what I'm about to write). We don't know why Hajek was scratched in favor of Bitetto. It might be that Hajek has some physical issue that doesn't come up to the level of injury, but was enough to give him a rest for a game in the second of back-to-backs against a weaker opponent. Let's see if Hajek is back in on Tuesday. And the fact is that it didn't cost them two points. Though, even if the situation was one where "Bitetto is part of the team, and I wanted to get him a game"... that's not exactly unreasonable. Teams do that all the time.

The other is that it's hard to justify the coaching decisions he's made this year. There are quite a few coaching decisions that I've disagreed with that Quinn has made this season.. or in other words, that I would have done differently, but none of them are hard to justify. This last game was a perfect example. Despite scoring a nice goal, the kids line was a -1. Chytil was guilty of an awful turnover that led to a GA and the line was out there for another goal. If it were me... I'd keep putting them out there while telling them "go make it up"... instead, their ice time was cut. There's nothing unjustifiable about cutting their ice time in the 3rd... it's just an approach I wouldn't have taken. I feel like there's a lot of this that goes on... "I don't like what he did, so therefore it doesn't make any sense."

And that comes to your use of the word "objective." There is nothing objective about any of these evaluations.

 

[eco's bones]

The moment the Rangers got Panarin’s signature on a contract people should have realized right off who the offensive leader of the team was going to be and FWIW Panarin is a bigger offensive threat than any other 1st overall pick anywhere else other than McDavid and maybe MacKinnon. Neither Kakko or Lafreniere were going to change that right away and really as of now those two can only kind of hang with him.

As for the letting Kakko and Lafreniere figure it out without coaching idea—that’s kind of what the Oilers did with Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov.

 

[JHS]

I don't disagree with much of this, but I do have a couple of fundamental problems with some of what's written here.

One is an assumption (or maybe it isn't and Quinn addressed it in post-game... if so, ignore what I'm about to write). We don't know why Hajek was scratched in favor of Bitetto. It might be that Hajek has some physical issue that doesn't come up to the level of injury, but was enough to give him a rest for a game in the second of back-to-backs against a weaker opponent. Let's see if Hajek is back in on Tuesday. And the fact is that it didn't cost them two points. Though, even if the situation was one where "Bitetto is part of the team, and I wanted to get him a game"... that's not exactly unreasonable. Teams do that all the time.

The other is that it's hard to justify the coaching decisions he's made this year. There are quite a few coaching decisions that I've disagreed with that Quinn has made this season.. or in other words, that I would have done differently, but none of them are hard to justify. This last game was a perfect example. Despite scoring a nice goal, the kids line was a -1. Chytil was guilty of an awful turnover that led to a GA and the line was out there for another goal. If it were me... I'd keep putting them out there while telling them "go make it up"... instead, their ice time was cut. There's nothing unjustifiable about cutting their ice time in the 3rd... it's just an approach I wouldn't have taken. I feel like there's a lot of this that goes on... "I don't like what he did, so therefore it doesn't make any sense."

And that comes to your use of the word "objective." There is nothing objective about any of these evaluations.

Some difficult to justify moments this season-
1. Announcing a goalie rotation and abandoning that within a week
2. Constant line rotations for the first month plus of the season
3. Playing Jack Johnson at the start of the season instead of Hajek( those points may be the reason the Rangers don't make the playoffs today.)
5. Giving Mica massive minutes when his game was brutal-- tough one to kill him on but fair to point out
6. Moving Strome away from Artemi and vice versa
7. Stagnant and predictable powerplay up until recently

I'm sure we can all point out more. Again, Quinn has made some better decisions recently and I'm less in line to want him gone no matter what but I just mean to say that the pro Quinn groups often asks us to overlook even the most obvious coaching blunders becasue they want to just accept the fact that the team will make mistakes because it is young. Again, the team can make mistakes and be young and the coach not make obvious blunders.

 

[carminejr]

Some difficult to justify moments this season-
1. Announcing a goalie rotation and abandoning that within a week
2. Constant line rotations for the first month plus of the season
3. Playing Jack Johnson at the start of the season instead of Hajek( those points may be the reason the Rangers don't make the playoffs today.)
5. Giving Mica massive minutes when his game was brutal-- tough one to kill him on but fair to point out
6. Moving Strome away from Artemi and vice versa
7. Stagnant and predictable powerplay up until recently

I'm sure we can all point out more. Again, Quinn has made some better decisions recently and I'm less in line to want him gone no matter what but I just mean to say that the pro Quinn groups often asks us to overlook even the most obvious coaching blunders becasue they want to just accept the fact that the team will make mistakes because it is young. Again, the team can make mistakes and be young and the coach not make obvious blunders.

Literally not a single one of your talking points, which are easily refuted by simply watching/understanding the game of hockey, stand as an “obvious coaching blunder.”

 

[Tawnos]

Some difficult to justify moments this season-
1. Announcing a goalie rotation and abandoning that within a week
2. Constant line rotations for the first month plus of the season
3. Playing Jack Johnson at the start of the season instead of Hajek( those points may be the reason the Rangers don't make the playoffs today.)
5. Giving Mica massive minutes when his game was brutal-- tough one to kill him on but fair to point out
6. Moving Strome away from Artemi and vice versa
7. Stagnant and predictable powerplay up until recently

I'm sure we can all point out more. Again, Quinn has made some better decisions recently and I'm less in line to want him gone no matter what but I just mean to say that the pro Quinn groups often asks us to overlook even the most obvious coaching blunders becasue they want to just accept the fact that the team will make mistakes because it is young. Again, the team can make mistakes and be young and the coach not make obvious blunders.

All of those are really easily justifiable.

1. Light a fire to see who grabs the job when both guys stunk (Shesterkin did grab it, which seems inevitable, but the tactic worked).
2. Line rotations: nothing was working.
3. Jack Johnson over Hajek: Vet stabilizer to transition the team to Martin's expectation (it worked).
4. JHS can't count
5. Let the proven player work through his problems (we're seeing the same now with Kreider)
6. Again, nothing was working... including Strome/Panarin
7. You're really talking about less than half of the 45 games they've played that this is the case. Their powerplay has been fine since early March (8th in the league 3/1 to now)... 25 out of 45 games played. On one hand, I felt like he stuck too long with a top unit that wasn't working. On the other hand, that same unit is the one that's working now. So was it a mistake or did his patience pay off? That's all subjective, but "patience paying off" justifies his tactics.

And to be clear: 3, 5, 6, and 7 are all ones where I didn't like what Quinn did. 1 and 2 were ones where my reaction was more "whatever." This is exactly what I'm talking about though. Just because you or I didn't like some of the moves doesn't make them difficult to justify.

 

[JHS]

Literally not a single one of your talking points, which are easily refuted by simply watching/understanding the game of hockey, stand as an “obvious coaching blunder.”

Totally unfair- I'm not getting into the unnecessary personal attack( like I don't watch the games) but these are all easily classified as blunders. If you define blunders in a different way than " obvious mistakes" perhaps you can have your take but for most of us, blunders mean obvious mistakes.

1. Telling your goalies you will rotate them and then not is a mistake. Have we all forgotten how bad Georgie became after he had the rug yanked out from under him by his own coach?

2. Did you totally forget how Quinn likely cost the team multiple games by juggling the lines without reason only to basically revert back to the same lines/pairings that worked well last year?

3. Did you forget how Jack Johnson was inserted into the starting lineup for multiple games this season and how awful he was when better options were available( like Hajek--speaks to obviously not recognizing talent which is a blunder)

4. Did you not recognize how Mica's sluggish/non existent start to the season was made worse by plowing him out there every couple of shifts--now this one was not totally a solvable problem for Quinn as he did not have any actual options but it still showed the team he was willing to abuse his players.

5. Did Strome and Artemi not immediately take off once they were re-united?

6. Did the powerplay get a lot better once players were used more efficiently and placed in the correct spots? It's the guy's third season with most of these players and somehow it was a mystery on how to allocate them.

So, yeah all of these above are clear blunders that cost the team games. If you wanted me to point out more subtle changes like defensive zone coverage, puck skills and or lack thereof at the start of the season, multiple other system flaws I guess we can go that route too but who really cares about that when we can just talk about the obvious stuff and that's enough!

 

[JHS]

All of those are really easily justifiable.

1. Light a fire to see who grabs the job when both guys stunk (Shesterkin did grab it, which seems inevitable, but the tactic worked).
2. Line rotations: nothing was working.
3. Jack Johnson over Hajek: Vet stabilizer to transition the team to Martin's expectation (it worked).
4. JHS can't count
5. Let the proven player work through his problems (we're seeing the same now with Kreider)
6. Again, nothing was working... including Strome/Panarin
7. You're really talking about less than half of the 45 games they've played that this is the case. Their powerplay has been fine since early March (8th in the league 3/1 to now)... 25 out of 45 games played. On one hand, I felt like he stuck too long with a top unit that wasn't working. On the other hand, that same unit is the one that's working now. So was it a mistake or did his patience pay off? That's all subjective, but "patience paying off" justifies his tactics.

And to be clear: 3, 5, 6, and 7 are all ones where I didn't like what Quinn did. 1 and 2 were ones where my reaction was more "whatever." This is exactly what I'm talking about though. Just because you or I didn't like some of the moves doesn't make them difficult to justify.

Fair but I guess my point is, based on his 3 years now with the team, why was he guessing about how to use the lineup? He should have confidence in what has worked and try to stick with it. My point is, that's why I label these decisions as blunders because if he was still in the phase of trying to see what his roster was capable of and feeling out these guys then I'd agree these are justifiable. Not 3 years in.

I will say that the goalie rotation move then taking it away crushed Georgie. He literally fell apart after that.
Jack Johnson is a guy who had no future with the organization so giving him vital minutes seems a stretch to say this was a move to solidify the Defense presence.

Playing Mica who was struggling did not work- he could not do anything and the coach just kept parading him out there. I'm not sure what message that sends( I'd take it like the coach is willing to abuse me while I'm struggling) but maybe not everyone takes it that way. Mica broke out while Quinn was not on the bench( coincidence-- maybe but who knows)

I'm jst throwing out there that there are a lot of decisions Quinn has made that are tough to justify-- not even in hindsight-- but at the time, that seem to be counter to what I'd expect from a third year NHL coach.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Panarin is a bigger offensive threat than any other 1st overall pick anywhere else other than McDavid and maybe MacKinnon.

Could also argue Auston Matthews.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

1. Telling your goalies you will rotate them and then not is a mistake. Have we all forgotten how bad Georgie became after he had the rug yanked out from under him by his own coach?

I think the larger issue is neither goalie was good to start the season.

2. Did you totally forget how Quinn likely cost the team multiple games by juggling the lines without reason only to basically revert back to the same lines/pairings that worked well last year?

You say this and then you say #4? Total conjecture.

4. Did you not recognize how Mica's sluggish/non existent start to the season was made worse by plowing him out there every couple of shifts--now this one was not totally a solvable problem for Quinn as he did not have any actual options but it still showed the team he was willing to abuse his players.

Which is it? He plowed Mika or he constantly juggled lines? Most coaches let the guy who had his best season the year before try and play his way out of it. But can you imagine the bitching if Mika was playing basically third line minutes?

5. Did Strome and Artemi not immediately take off once they were re-united?

No. Because they were rarely separated.

6. Did the powerplay get a lot better once players were used more efficiently and placed in the correct spots? It's the guy's third season with most of these players and somehow it was a mystery on how to allocate them.

No. The power play got a lot better when Mika and Panarin rounded back into form. For that matter, please tell us how the the power play is much different now than it was earlier this season or last season.

So, yeah all of these above are clear blunders that cost the team games. If you wanted me to point out more subtle changes like defensive zone coverage, puck skills and or lack thereof at the start of the season, multiple other system flaws I guess we can go that route too but who really cares about that when we can just talk about the obvious stuff and that's enough!

If you can say that it cost the team games, you'll have no problem informing as to just how many games he has cost them.

who really cares about that when we can just talk about the obvious stuff and that's enough!

You can talk about it. But it doesn't make it so.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Jack Johnson is a guy who had no future with the organization so giving him vital minutes seems a stretch to say this was a move to solidify the Defense presence.

So you seem to have all the answers please enlighten us as to why Jack Johnson was signed?

 

[Tawnos]

Fair but I guess my point is, based on his 3 years now with the team, why was he guessing about how to use the lineup? He should have confidence in what has worked and try to stick with it. My point is, that's why I label these decisions as blunders because if he was still in the phase of trying to see what his roster was capable of and feeling out these guys then I'd agree these are justifiable. Not 3 years in.

I will say that the goalie rotation move then taking it away crushed Georgie. He literally fell apart after that.
Jack Johnson is a guy who had no future with the organization so giving him vital minutes seems a stretch to say this was a move to solidify the Defense presence.

Playing Mica who was struggling did not work- he could not do anything and the coach just kept parading him out there. I'm not sure what message that sends( I'd take it like the coach is willing to abuse me while I'm struggling) but maybe not everyone takes it that way. Mica broke out while Quinn was not on the bench( coincidence-- maybe but who knows)

I'm jst throwing out there that there are a lot of decisions Quinn has made that are tough to justify-- not even in hindsight-- but at the time, that seem to be counter to what I'd expect from a third year NHL coach.

Georgiev fell apart after he got a concussion that was never diagnosed as a concussion.

As for it being his 3rd year with the team... the argument against that is simple: this isn't the same team he had 2 years ago or last year. He has new players and he has players who are better this year than last year. What worked in the past doesn't always stay that way and, by all indications to start the year, it definitely wasn't staying the same way. This is not unique to our situation. Just because something worked last year doesn't mean it will work this year... and sometimes even if something is working fine, that doesn't mean something else won't work even better. Example from the recent past: Some years, Kreider was the best fit with Stepan. Other years Nash was. This is entirely normal and making adjustments to try to find the right balance is what the coach should be doing.

For all we know, next year Kravtsov or Lafrenière could slot in with Zibanejad and Buchnevich and take that line to even greater heights than they've reached with Kreider. Or they could take them to the same heights we see now and Kreider could work with Chytil and form a really dangerous third offensive line. By your argument, Quinn shouldn't even try to find out in October next year.

Also, solidifying the defense presence is not what I said in regards to Johnson.

Again, nothing you've written is hard to justify. They're only things that you disagree with... and I disagree with them to some extent too.

 

[smoneil]

What others? People on a message board? Most first and second overall picks end up on teams bereft of talent, that's why the play so much. Do you honestly think you know more about developing an NHL player than Quinn, Gorton and JD? Really? Laffreniere barely deserved the ice time he got earlier in the season, he wasn't good. The answer to a player not playing well isn't giving him more ice.



It's comical.

The funniest thing is that "Quinn thinks he's smarter than anyone" and not actually the other way around (full-of-themselves internet posters think that they are smarter than Quinn, Gorton and Davidson)

20 minutes of meaningless ice is so much better than 10 minutes of ice in a playoff push, didn't you know? There was a poster no too long ago that said they'd rather lose the game if it meant Laff getting more ice time.



Bingo

You may have missed it while you two were high five-ing each other, calling me names, and throwing out enough straw men to feed a fleet of goats, but our first overall draft pick has 14 points in 45 games for a 26 point pace over a full season. Our recent second overall draft pick has 13 points in 38 games for a 28 point pace over a full season. We have a pair of 21 year old prospects. One has 2 points in 9 games after finally rejoining the team after he left, in large part, because he felt the coaching staff wasn't communicating with him. Our other 21 year old prospect, who also happens to play the position where the team desperately needs young talent, is another story. He has 17 points in 31 games for a 45 point pace over a full season (including 8 points in his last 11 games, which include a few beautiful assists for those who think the kid has no "vision"). And yet, he has the lowest TOI/G out of the three kids (not counting Krav, who just got here).

You want to sit there and act like I think I'm "smarter than Quinn" when it comes to developing players? Don't be obtuse. I make that argument because every other coach/team in the league clearly thinks that Quinn is dumb in the way he deploys the kids. Yeah, the Rangers have more talent than NJ, but Hughes is behind Hirshier, and still gets 16 to 19 minutes per night including powerplay time. Kakko is behind Buchnevich and...um...yeah. But Blackwell needs to play and Howden needs to play and for a while Lemieux had to be on the power play etc etc.

You think you are so smug and so "correct" about Quinn. Fine, say for the sake of argument that it isn't a big deal that the Rangers are regularly benching their best four young forwards (and for the record, it's getting worse the longer the season goes on--Look at Chytil and Laf's last 10-15 games and you'll see FAR more games well below their season average TOI/G). You still can't avoid the fact that what Quinn is doing isn't working. I'm as pleased as anyone else that Kakko has grown defensively as much as he has, but you don't draft someone at #2 overall to have them look like a poor man's Jesper Fast after two full years of "development." You don't draft someone #1 overall to get fourth line production. And the only one who HAS put up production, Chytil, not only still gets benched like the other two, he gets benched more.

So crow all you want. Act like I think I'm superior. The bottom line is it's YOUR hero who is using these players in a historically different way and it's obvious to everyone with a pair of eyes and half a brain cell that what Quinn is doing isn't working. Unless, of course, you are content with getting a pair of 3rd/4th liners out of the only top two draft picks in the history of this team.

 

[True Blue]

The ultimate irony is: me and my fellow "Quinnbros" aren't even all that attached to him. He's far from perfect.

That is not the ultimate irony. Below is the ultimate irony.

Quinn lost games with his mindless line shuffling.

How could Quinn have left Mika continue to play where he was due to the struggles?

Which is it? Do you want him to leave the lines alone or shuffle them? Or shuffle them when you deem it should be done and not shuffle them when you do not deem it should be done?

Then I see the below and realize just how late to the party I am.

Which is it? He plowed Mika or he constantly juggled lines? Most coaches let the guy who had his best season the year before try and play his way out of it. But can you imagine the bitching if Mika was playing basically third line minutes?

 

[Zamboner]

Quinn has been less bad as of late, but still don't think he's at all the long term option. Real Tom Renney vibe, you can rebuild with him, but there is a short ceiling, and once the Rangers are expected to be good his services will no longer be required.

 

[eco's bones]

Could also argue Auston Matthews.

If you’re talking overall value and because Matthews is younger it’s arguable Matthews is more valuable but right here and right now Panarin age aside is the better player. His unselfishness certainly makes the players around him better. He’s helped to turn both Adam Fox and Ryan Strome into a force. His effect on Fox IMO is comparable to Messier’s effect on Leetch.

 

[True Blue]

Quinn has been less bad as of late, but still don't think he's at all the long term option. Real Tom Renney vibe, you can rebuild with him, but there is a short ceiling, and once the Rangers are expected to be good his services will no longer be required.

But no one has actually expected him to be the long term option. He is here to do a job. And is doing the job that Gorton & JD want him to do. He is for sure behind the bench next year. But next year, the playoffs are going to be expected. If he makes the playoffs next year, he may well be back for his 5th year. But when the team is competing for the Cup, solid chance that someone else is behind the bench.

 

[JHS]

Double post

 

[JHS]

So you seem to have all the answers please enlighten us as to why Jack Johnson was signed?

I can’t. I would never have signed him. I think the organization realized it was a mistake when they released him.

Also, never said I had all the answers. Seems like people here are getting much angrier. It’s ok to disagree without taking cheap shots.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

If you’re talking overall value and because Matthews is younger it’s arguable Matthews is more valuable but right here and right now Panarin age aside is the better player. His unselfishness certainly makes the players around him better. He’s helped to turn both Adam Fox and Ryan Strome into a force. His effect on Fox IMO is comparable to Messier’s effect on Leetch.

Agreed. Though, I will say Matthews also has the edge in goal scoring, but do think Panarin is the overall player besides age and goal scoring.

 

[JHS]

Georgiev fell apart after he got a concussion that was never diagnosed as a concussion.

As for it being his 3rd year with the team... the argument against that is simple: this isn't the same team he had 2 years ago or last year. He has new players and he has players who are better this year than last year. What worked in the past doesn't always stay that way and, by all indications to start the year, it definitely wasn't staying the same way. This is not unique to our situation. Just because something worked last year doesn't mean it will work this year... and sometimes even if something is working fine, that doesn't mean something else won't work even better. Example from the recent past: Some years, Kreider was the best fit with Stepan. Other years Nash was. This is entirely normal and making adjustments to try to find the right balance is what the coach should be doing.

For all we know, next year Kravtsov or Lafrenière could slot in with Zibanejad and Buchnevich and take that line to even greater heights than they've reached with Kreider. Or they could take them to the same heights we see now and Kreider could work with Chytil and form a really dangerous third offensive line. By your argument, Quinn shouldn't even try to find out in October next year.

Also, solidifying the defense presence is not what I said in regards to Johnson.

Again, nothing you've written is hard to justify. They're only things that you disagree with... and I disagree with them to some extent too.

I understand what you are saying and you are actually correct that things change— however, when the lineup is shifted all around and then he goes back to the same combos that worked last year I have to conclude it was a mistake( blunder) to change it up in the first place. Again, you can justify his thought process to change things up- sure- but, when the coach makes a mistake it’s ok to point it out just like we would with a player. I also think it’s fair to point out his success, the “kid line” was a huge experiment and it’s largely worked out.

Your point about whether it’s justifiable/ vs things you and I disagree with is more results orientated. It’s justifiable to affix mistakes a coach makes to him as he’s the one making the decisions. It’s akin to blaming the defensemen for clearing the puck up the middle in a tight game when he’s trying to hit a guy for a breakaway up the ice only to have it picked off and put into the back of our net. While the thought process made sense( try and hit the guy for a breakaway) the results made it a poor choice. We would call out the player based on the results and say “it’s hard to justify that pass in a close game.” So, is hard to justify a coach making similar mistakes year after year.

I hear you in the different team aspect but that’s not entirely fair. He’s had the same basic core, the same basic organization structure, the same charge from the organization etc. Just as you can use that to further your argument so could any anti Quinn guy( all coaches coach the roster in front of them.) Again, my original point is I don’t see him being the guy getting this team to make extended runs into the playoffs. Has he been a disaster???—- would not go that far. Has he made some decisions that’s are tough to justify?- yup.

 

[Gamma82]

...
You want to sit there and act like I think I'm "smarter than Quinn" when it comes to developing players? Don't be obtuse. I make that argument because every other coach/team in the league clearly thinks that Quinn is dumb in the way he deploys the kids. ....

Who are these coaches and teams that you are talking about? I have a funny feeling that the Hockey world outside of HFNYR thinks a little differently of Quinn they you think they do.

 

[kovazub94]

You may have missed it while you two were high five-ing each other, calling me names, and throwing out enough straw men to feed a fleet of goats, but our first overall draft pick has 14 points in 45 games for a 26 point pace over a full season. Our recent second overall draft pick has 13 points in 38 games for a 28 point pace over a full season. We have a pair of 21 year old prospects. One has 2 points in 9 games after finally rejoining the team after he left, in I large part, because he felt the coaching staff wasn't communicating with him. Our other 21 year old prospect, who also happens to play the position where the team desperately needs young talent, is another story. He has 17 points in 31 games for a 45 point pace over a full season (including 8 points in his last 11 games, which include a few beautiful assists for those who think the kid has no "vision"). And yet, he has the lowest TOI/G out of the three kids (not counting Krav, who just got here).

You want to sit there and act like I think I'm "smarter than Quinn" when it comes to developing players? Don't be obtuse. I make that argument because every other coach/team in the league clearly thinks that Quinn is dumb in the way he deploys the kids. Yeah, the Rangers have more talent than NJ, but Hughes is behind Hirshier, and still gets 16 to 19 minutes per night including powerplay time. Kakko is behind Buchnevich and...um...yeah. But Blackwell needs to play and Howden needs to play and for a while Lemieux had to be on the power play etc etc.

You think you are so smug and so "correct" about Quinn. Fine, say for the sake of argument that it isn't a big deal that the Rangers are regularly benching their best four young forwards (and for the record, it's getting worse the longer the season goes on--Look at Chytil and Laf's last 10-15 games and you'll see FAR more games well below their season average TOI/G). You still can't avoid the fact that what Quinn is doing isn't working. I'm as pleased as anyone else that Kakko has grown defensively as much as he has, but you don't draft someone at #2 overall to have them look like a poor man's Jesper Fast after two full years of "development." You don't draft someone #1 overall to get fourth line production. And the only one who HAS put up production, Chytil, not only still gets benched like the other two, he gets benched more.

So crow all you want. Act like I think I'm superior. The bottom line is it's YOUR hero who is using these players in a historically different way and it's obvious to everyone with a pair of eyes and half a brain cell that what Quinn is doing isn't working. Unless, of course, you are content with getting a pair of 3rd/4th liners out of the only top two draft picks in the history of this team.

Please show me one public statement from a hockey expert (not some random Twitter fanboy please) who criticized Quinn for prospect development?

 

[kovazub94]

If you’re talking overall value and because Matthews is younger it’s arguable Matthews is more valuable but right here and right now Panarin age aside is the better player. His unselfishness certainly makes the players around him better. He’s helped to turn both Adam Fox and Ryan Strome into a force. His effect on Fox IMO is comparable to Messier’s effect on Leetch.

This is interesting in itself as well as the comparable you used. Good stuff!