Player Discussion David Quinn: Part IV

[Pawnee Rangers]

Whatever happens is proof of what’s wrong with Quinn, even if it’s the opposite of what happened the game prior.

I don’t mind changing the coach, he’s just okay imo, but we’re fully at the point where people are single minded on him sucking and everything is his fault and a sign of his incompetence no matter what.

Perfectly said. I'm in the same boat as you, keep him, get rid of him, whatever, he's not their biggest problem right now. I'm also learning that a lot of these posters have no idea what a system is.

 

[duhmetreE]

Last week you were complaining about his system because it was all dump and chase. They scored their first three goals last night off the rush. The team fell behind 2-0, he switched the lines and they destroyed the Flyers in the second period. What do you even want, man???

We score on the rush but I'd say it's equivalent to a guy with a batting .200avg and hitting 30HR's with 280Ks. It's all or nothing. We struggle to transition out of our zone cleanly or support the puck. We're sloppy. We're semi-decent converting on turnovers in the neutral zone. Established O-Zone time is horrendous, 5v5 and PP. That's the gameplan most people bring up, Stagnant Perimeter Possession

A lot of our success comes off of 'broken' plays, not structure. I'd like some structure to add to it

I just want a well coached team? A structure for breakouts and transition. NHL caliber puck movement. Basic puck support. A gameplan that doesn't consist of perimeter possession. How often do we see our talent in between the dots? very rare. A Powerplay with optionality and shooting options. Odd man rushes that consistently result in shots/scoring chances instead of flubs and turnovers.

Changing lines is why we came out in the 2nd? He changes lines every single game. Sadly, I expected to come out the way we did

We're poorly coached. I do not know how you can watch the games and not come to that conclusion. It doesn't mean that everything Quinn does is inherently bad. It also doesn't mean, if he gets something right, it negates everything else. I call it exactly how I see it... I honestly dont know what you're seeing

Maybe my expectations are much different than yours

 

[Peltz]

Last week you were complaining about his system because it was all dump and chase. They scored their first three goals last night off the rush. The team fell behind 2-0, he switched the lines and they destroyed the Flyers in the second period. What do you even want, man???

They lost because of Miller (attributable to 2 goals against) and Guthier's (two high sticking plays resulting in a pair of goals) mistakes last night but outplayed them all night 5 on 5. If you want to blame Quinn for special teams that's certainly something you can criticize from last night. But the team competed well outside of the rookie mistakes from rookies.

Oh, and Kincaid let in a few softies even though he also fended off some odd-man rushes. He's the reason they lost the overtime.

 

[Peltz]

good coaches will ALWAYS find a way to put a player in the best position to succeed rather than trying to mold them into their image of what they think they should be.

That's the most valid criticism in this thread so far. And it's why I am not arguing that we should keep Quinn, even though I do not think he's as bad as people are making him out to be.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I want a well coached team? A structure for breakouts and transition. NHL caliber puck movement. Basic puck support. A gameplan that doesn't consist of perimeter possession. How often do we see our talent in between the dots? very rare. A Powerplay with optionality and shooting options. Odd man rushes that consistently result in shots/scoring chances instead of flubs and turnovers.

Changing lines is why we came out in the 2nd? He changes lines every single game. Sadly, I expected to come out the way we did

My man, do you really believe they don't have a structure for breakouts and transition? That they don't preach puck support? This is basic pee-wee stuff. Is he coaching the offense out of them on 2 on 1's? You have a combined 1000 years of experience in that organization and if what you say is happening, you don't think someone is going to say, hey where's the structure?

And since you edited your response, I see a team who's #1 C is MIA, who's 1OA pick is MIA and getting outworked by Blackwell and Kevin f***ing Rooney, who's star player got spooked by Putin, who's lost a bunch of games played to Covid, who has 2 AHL defenders getting ice time every game, a 2OA who hasn't found his game yet, should I keep going?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

They lost because of Miller (attributable to 2 goals against) and Guthier's (two high sticking plays resulting in a pair of goals) mistakes last night but outplayed them all night 5 on 5. If you want to blame Quinn for special teams that's certainly something you can criticize from last night. But the team competed well outside of the rookie mistakes from rookies.

Oh, and Kincaid let in a few softies even though he also fended off some odd-man rushes. He's the reason they lost the overtime.

Agreed but that doesn't fit the narrative here. Anyone with two firing brain cells knows why they lost last night.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

David “Tony Sparano” Quinn

 

[duhmetreE]

My man, do you really believe they don't have a structure for breakouts and transition? That they don't preach puck support? This is basic pee-wee stuff. Is he coaching the offense out of them on 2 on 1's? You have a combined 1000 years of experience in that organization and if what you say is happening, you don't think someone is going to say, hey where's the structure?

You said all of that but my eyeballs tell me they are bad at every aspect of it. Why do we look the way we look? Why does the puck carrier never have support ? Why do we run into eachother? Why are we sloppy? Why is no one ever getting open or attacking soft spots?

We find a lot of success in broken plays. Creating chances off of structure would be nice as well

 

[duhmetreE]

They lost because of Miller (attributable to 2 goals against) and Guthier's (two high sticking plays resulting in a pair of goals) mistakes last night but outplayed them all night 5 on 5. If you want to blame Quinn for special teams that's certainly something you can criticize from last night. But the team competed well outside of the rookie mistakes from rookies.

Oh, and Kincaid let in a few softies even though he also fended off some odd-man rushes. He's the reason they lost the overtime.

Are we going to forget that 1st period? 2nd period was great. 3rd period was arguably split. OT was the pain I've come to expect this season.

KAM had a rough game. Losing Fox and Buch really crippled our PK. That doesn't trivialize all the other issues.

 

[NYR]

David “Tony Sparano” Quinn

But that SWAGGER though..

 

[NYR]

 

[CLW]

Are we going to forget that 1st period? 2nd period was great. 3rd period was arguably split. OT was the pain I've come to expect this season.

KAM had a rough game. Losing Fox and Buch really crippled our PK. That doesn't trivialize all the other issues.

KAM looked very good for the first few games when the Rangers played more defensive hockey. Once Quinn opened the game up KAM has been a bit exposed now and then.

The OT was brutal, Panarin was on the ice for 2 mins straight or something before coughing up the puck.

 

[kovazub94]

I thought Zib looked pretty good though.

He did but why this fact is relevant if it interferes with hysteria?

 

[kovazub94]

Part of Quinn's issue with young forwards is the over insistence on focusing on the the defensive side of the puck. This alone should let you know that he's a shit coach, good coaches will ALWAYS find a way to put a player in the best position to succeed rather than trying to mold them into their image of what they think they should be.

These are young players whose bread and butter are putting up points. They aren't going to further develop those traits by being overly defensively conscious and even less so when you don't put them in a prime position to put up points in situations where its easier to do so (PP time.) The lack of PP time excuse would have been valid had we had a top unit scorching the league like they did last year, they don't but again, Quinn wants to lean on the same group of veterans who have been woefully ineffective this year.

I'm not saying that defense isn't important, but that will come with time. You don't try to force a gradual process into one season especially if its hindering what guy these guys to the dance in the first place.

The lack of a system doesn't help either. He needs to go.

Yeah, like waiting 12 years for Ovechkin to finally figure out that he can’t score his way to the Stanley Cup when Trotz got him to buy in?

Personally I care about the final product and I don’t care whether offense or defense comes first. Lafreniere and Kakko - we know that offense is there.

 

[kovazub94]

Don't give me this patience bullshit. I know what I'm watching. I know what the players are capable of. Stop pretending being unhappy with the results of two extremely highly touted young players are a lack of patience. They are both playing at historic lows. This is not normal.



Uh, and? What does this have to do with anything?



You gonna harp on that (admittedly very good) pass the rest of this post?

Chytil has been much better and more noticeable than both Laf & Kakko on and off the scoresheet. Pay attention.



I don't see them nearly often enough and what I see while I'm waiting for those flashes are very concerning. That's my whole problem.



Laf is on track to be the worst 1st overall D+1 season since Patrik Stefan. Kakko had a historically bad rookie year for a 2nd overall pick. This is nonsense and you are strawmanning my concerns.

With players at that age, it's going to be one step forward, two steps back sometimes. Just look at the mistakes that Miller made last night - those are rookie mistakes that very few seasoned NHL defensemen make.


I feel like this post was meant for someone else. Did I call them busts? Did I say that their future projections were clearly off? Quite the opposite! That they are uncharacterisically unlike their player profiled that has followed them their entire careers, and that it is more than fair to be concerned with how unimpressive they've looked back to back. If you want me to admit this is probably the worst they'll ever be at the NHL level and they have bright futures then fine, you got me. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you.

Whether you like to accept it or not this is a covid hockey season. It’s the source of most of your (and those like you) frustrations. However it’s pointless to complain and so you shift your attention onto the coach who in reality over a longer span of time than just a quarter of what would’ve been a regular season showed that prospects do develop under him and vets actually find another level to their games.

 

[kovazub94]

KAM looked very good for the first few games when the Rangers played more defensive hockey. Once Quinn opened the game up KAM has been a bit exposed now and then.

The OT was brutal, Panarin was on the ice for 2 mins straight or something before coughing up the puck.

Lol, Panarin actually was on his second shift after two other Rangers threesomes got their chance. His first shift Flyers were nowhere near the puck and should have been taken advantage of when Panarin left.

 

[CLW]

Lol, Panarin actually was on his second shift after two other Rangers threesomes got their chance. His first shift Flyers were nowhere near the puck and should have been taken advantage of when Panarin left.

Yes, lol, he was on his second shift... a very long one. Lol.

 

[kovazub94]

Yes, lol, he was on his second shift... a very long one. Lol.

Nope, first one was long.

 

[Machinehead]

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure we've won more corsi battles this year than the previous five combined.

Can you give an assistant the Jack Adams?

 

[Machinehead]

I'm in a weird spot with Quinn.

I certainly don't love him; but I don't really hate him either.

He does some stuff that drives my guano loco, but I also think he avoids letting the kids just skate out there and get complete comfort with stuff I don't want them to. Like you, I don't have a problem changing coaches per se, but I do wonder if it has the result some hope for.

I think either way there's going to be a way to blast Quinn. If a new coach comes in next year, and everyone still sucks, it'll be because Quinn ruined them. If the new coach comes and there's improvement that builds off some Quinn stuff, he probably won't credit there either. And the truth in both scenarios is a bit of a mixed bag.

Kakko's possession numbers have been solid, and we're about a week out from commenting on some of his Jagr-esque moves. We're also a week out from Lafreniere's multi-game point streak. So there's good stuff in there.

Do I wish those elements were joined by both guys pacing at 20 goals and 50 points each?

Of course I do.

I also wish Zibanejad was producing at last year's pace as well, because I think it probably have us sitting in a playoff spot right now.

When push comes to shove, I don't feel worried so much as disappointed. I think this was one of the seasons that could go either way, depending on the bounces --- both on the ice and off. And it almost feels like every bounce has gone against us throughout the year.

I think "explode for points" is a bit disingenuous. People want them to stop being generic 4th liners.

That's especially true for a Kakko. He's been Darroll Powe this year.

EDIT: quoted the wrong post but you know what I mean.

 

[Machinehead]

Also I absolutely hate the Stützle comparisons and I think they're exhausting and pointless.

But as long as we're on the topic, yes, I would rather Lafreniere have 20 points or whatever the f*** it is and be a CHL player defensively. I'd sign up right now for 15-20-35 over 56 games and a minus-80. Wouldn't give it half of a thought.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah, like waiting 12 years for Ovechkin to finally figure out that he can’t score his way to the Stanley Cup when Trotz got him to buy in?

Personally I care about the final product and I don’t care whether offense or defense comes first. Lafreniere and Kakko - we know that offense is there.

Yeah the Caps didn't win because OV was too busy scoring goals lol.

Funny how the Trotz narrative didn't fit the 2 years previous to the year they didn't win where they got the choker label. Did OV magically learn how to play defense in the year they finally got over the hump?

Not to mention, OV broke into the league scoring 50! Had he been coached to focus more on defense from the start I doubt he'd be as good as he has been offensively. If anything, hes the exact example of what I'm saying a coach SHOULD do. A more defense conscious OV didn't really occur until the latter half of his career... You know after he already honed and showcased his ability to basically think the puck into the net.

 

[NYR]

How about some defined roles?
I get that Shesty is out but how do you continue to rotate tendy's at this point in the season?

 

[Edge]

I think "explode for points" is a bit disingenuous. People want them to stop being generic 4th liners.

That's especially true for a Kakko. He's been Darroll Powe this year.

EDIT: quoted the wrong post but you know what I mean.

See and I don’t see them as generic fourth line players. So that’s kind of the fork in the road.

I mean when’s the last time someone thought what Powe did was Jagr-esque or pointed to underlying data that showed the points should be coming?

 

[Edge]

Also I absolutely hate the Stützle comparisons and I think they're exhausting and pointless.

But as long as we're on the topic, yes, I would rather Lafreniere have 20 points or whatever the f*** it is and be a CHL player defensively. I'd sign up right now for 15-20-35 over 56 games and a minus-80. Wouldn't give it half of a thought.

And that’s certainly one approach.

I think there’d be a lot of debate as to whether it’s the best approach. But it is certainly one potential path.