Player Discussion David Quinn: Part IV

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don't see it as just being hyperbole.
There are just way too many very questionable decisions he's made.
Yes..Chytil's return is super important.
I actually think he's a legit #2C.
But that don't change the starting behind the 8-ball mentality of this coaching staff IMO.
That said..Box that shit out when need be in order to get a win.
All the best teams know when to do it..

I think they need to learn how to win tight games, no question. They have enough veteran leadership on the team. The question is, do they have enough gamers? I think there's a few on the roster probably could use a few more.

You mean Isles pt 1. right?

But yeah a normally functioning Zibaenjad would be a big boost. Chytil getting healthy and returning to what he was doing before the injury would be not as big of a boost, but a pretty big one in its own right.

Im not so confident that we'll see the real Zibanejad this year though. Covid is an asshole.

That would be an absolute disaster. And yes, Isles. Sorry.

 

[will1066]

I don't think we even have a primary strategy, or if we do I don't understand what it is.

I think the most telling thing is look how WELL we're coached at one end of the ice compared to the other. We're not a wall defensively but they've made such big strides from where they were last year and this is with a very young an inexperienced group.

Compare that to how they look at the other end of the ice... And if we're being real, the only big difference between this team's offense NOW and the one that showed up for the last 30-ish games of last season is Zibanejad and the PP (again, Zibanejad.) It's not all Zibanejad, but if one guy throws off your offense this drastically? We've got problems.

If your coach keeps on running this guy out there in his usual roles despite clearly struggling to the point where hes maybe our worst player? We've got bigger problems.

This is literally what some people here want, maybe not with Zibanejad but with Lafreniere and Kakko, etc.

Just pointing out that no matter what he does, someone will complain.

 

[will1066]

Yes. Quite honestly this is exactly what it seems like to me.




They played well against Washington, but I do think its worth mentioning that this came against a team that is adjusting to an entirely new system and it's clear that they haven't gotten completely comfortable with it. I know they got off to a good start, but they've lost 3 straight (or is it 4 now?) and just gave up 7 goals to a Philly team who I'm pretty sure didn't even register 20 SOG.

Our goalie was also awesome in this game.

We clown pounded the Isles because their goalie and their team sucked as much in that game as we did the first game of the season.



This isn't a system though, this is hockey.

Their issues stem from how they execute here. If they're dumping and chasing, they're chipping and coasting too often and if they're entering the zone with possession and with out numbers, they aren't waiting for other people to catch up (Lemieux of all people, is one of the few people on this team who actually understands that this is a thing.) They aren't really a rush oriented offense either, so we can't pin them with that moniker. I understand why you think it's rigid, but it really seems like they don't have a plan more so than they're sticking to doing things a certain way.

The over reliance on trying to exploit the royal road against the Isles last night I don't even put on Quinn entirely, at a certain point your players need to knock that shit off and I don't think it's a nightly thing for them either. Being allergic to the paint however, is an issue and I don't think that this roster should be as adverse to playing in traffic as they are. Who is responsible for the disconnect here?

So the question becomes, is Quinn not coaching his players to do these things, or is he preaching them but the team isn't listening? Neither answer is a good one.

This is the definition of a system.

 

[will1066]

It doesn't necessarily have to be 1-2-2 but you do need some form of trap in order to counter other teams, especially when you don't have depth down the middle..

Im very comfortable with my own thinking that he goes out there with a system than the converse. It might be the case that it's not the right system, it is the right system when everyone listens and adheres to it, and/or it is the right system but players are not executing it because of physical limitations or mental lapses.

The very existence of Jacques Martin and David Oliver is to do the X's and O's and work with the players at practice on the details of them.

 

[huerter]

If Quinn changes our top PP unit for tomorrow you will finally have something legitimate to gripe about.

 

[NYR]

Im very comfortable with my own thinking that he goes out there with a system than the converse. It might be the case that it's not the right system, it is the right system when everyone listens and adheres to it, and/or it is the right system but players are not executing it because of physical limitations or mental lapses.

The very existence of Jacques Martin and David Oliver is to do the X's and O's and work with the players at practice on the details of them.

Let's not over-complicate this.
They aren't executing simply because they don't know where to be or it's physically impossible to be where DQ expects you to be.
That said.. He doesn't know how to adjust and keep up with the rest of the league.
It's that simple..

 

[will1066]

Let's not over-complicate this.
They aren't executing simply because they don't know where to be or it's physically impossible to be where DQ expects you to be.
That said.. He doesn't know how to adjust and keep up with the rest of the league.
It's that simple..

I didn't really though lol. I gave three scenarios. I agree with you that the team has trouble adjusting in-game and his time management is suspect.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is the definition of a system.

right, and I don’t think they’re doing that.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Why are people still complaining about a system, they've literally done what we begged them to do last year, tighten up on d and make quicker passes out of our end. I think if Kreider and Zib got the lead out of their pants and Chytil and Blackwell were healthy we'd be winning more than losing.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Why are people still complaining about a system, they've literally done what we begged them to do last year, tighten up on d and make quicker passes out of our end. I think if Kreider and Zib got the lead out of their pants and Chytil and Blackwell were healthy we'd be winning more than losing.

Well, the alternative is to admit that this team simply isn't good enough

 

[Leetch3]

Well, the alternative is to admit that this team simply isn't good enough

so the alternative is to accept reality and admit the truth that the team isn't that good yet and still a work in progress...got any other unrealistic whacky ideas? lol

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I totally agree on the work in progress and patience parts. I still want Quinn gone after this season, no matter the outcome.

 

[MadHookUp]

I can't find the quote, but I recently read about an interview Kakko had in Finland where he said something along the lines that when he tried to do things that made him a successful scorer, Quinn told him to not do that anymore. It definitely was a concerning thought. Then you see what happened with Kravtsov and Andersson and I get a bit more concerned. Do we have a coach that is trying to change guys like Kakko, Laf, and Chytil into dump and chase grinders and impacting their development? But on the other had Chytil looked great before the injury... Buch looks like a stud. Panarin seems to have no problems playing entertaining hockey within Quinn's system. Kakko has definitely improved.

Honestly I still don't know where I am with Quinn. I am upset that I find this team incredibly boring to watch, and I said to my father that I haven't been this excited for a season since Gretzky was signed. I am not ready to give him the boot just yet. Besides, who would you replace him with?

 

[SA16]

So we should just let it slide? It's still an issue. Just like face offs have been an issue since 2009

Can you prove that this is actually true? Because we also hear many times how often the Rangers give up an early goal and start slow and I posted the numbers on this a few weeks ago and it's a complete fallacy. There's no truth in it whatsoever. I'm not saying your statement is or isn't true. I have no idea. But it's far easier to think the Rangers have issues out of breaks because you watch them every game and then you don't realize other teams have the same issues because you don't watch them. In fact, I specifically remember a stat a year or two ago showing that in teams first game back after the bye the aggregate record was very bad: 2017 NHL Bye Week Stats: Will Teams Struggle After Byes Again In 2018?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You know what would make Quinn look a little better? Zibanejad getting his head out of his ass and playing like a #1 center.

 

[True Blue]

right, and I don’t think they’re doing that.

Outshooting their opponent, suppressing the amount of high danger chances, being aggressive with oncoming forwards into the zone does not tell you that there is a system?

 

[True Blue]

Well, the alternative is to admit that this team simply isn't good enough

Youngest team in the league with a roster that is far from the finished products having growing pains and ups and downs? Fancy that.

 

[mas0764]

Youngest team in the league with a roster that is far from the finished products having growing pains and ups and downs? Fancy that.

Sure, but if this is the case, selling off for safe-bet "futures," should be part of the game plan.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Youngest team in the league with a roster that is far from the finished products having growing pains and ups and downs? Fancy that.

In all seriousness, what is happening? Why are there so many space cadets that expected the youngest team in the league to be contenders right away? And why do these same culprits blame, quite literally, every single thing on the coach?

 

[True Blue]

I can't find the quote, but I recently read about an interview Kakko had in Finland where he said something along the lines that when he tried to do things that made him a successful scorer, Quinn told him to not do that anymore. It definitely was a concerning thought.

There is nothing concerning about it. As others have pointed out, getting proper coaching at the NHL level is also getting rid of bad habits. Kakko could still rule Liga with those habits. But as his rookie demonstrated, it is all but impossible at the NHL level as he was a turnover machine.

There is NO coach on ANY team that is going to allow an 18 or 19 year old to continue to play the way that they did in Finland or Canadian juniors. Period.

Then you see what happened with Kravtsov and Andersson and I get a bit more concerned. Do we have a coach that is trying to change guys like Kakko, Laf, and Chytil into dump and chase grinders and impacting their development? But on the other had Chytil looked great before the injury... Buch looks like a stud. Panarin seems to have no problems playing entertaining hockey within Quinn's system. Kakko has definitely improved.

This place has become ridiculous.

HF: "I know that Kakko's play has improved"
HF: "Is his development being impacted?"

Let's go to the video tape. Chytil comes to camp as an 18 year old. Gets sent to Hartford. Listens to what the coaching staff told him to do, knocks his own door down and plays well. Enter this year, prior to injury appeared to be thriving. Kravstov comes into camp as a 20 year old. Has less than inspiring play. Gets sent to Harford, pouts and runs home to Russia where his play suffers. But, has conversations with management and coaches, gets his head out of his tukhus and turns his game around the following season to a degree that puts him squarely back on the radar. Andersson, comes to camp, makes the team, plays mediocre. Next year, at 20 years old, comes to camp and is sent to Harford. Decides that Harford is beneath him and runs home to Sweden. Starts to send out weird tweets. Has conversations with management and winds up being traded to LA where he is promptly scratch in 3 of 11 games, and has 1 point in the other 8. All the while averaging 11:25 of time. Clearly the LA coaching staff is impacting his development the way that the Rangers did.

 

[True Blue]

Sure, but if this is the case, selling off for safe-bet "futures," should be part of the game plan.

Management is trying to make the playoffs now and for the foreseeable future. They are not selling production for bets on futures .

Besides, what you are describing is the Rangers unloading players to teams that are clearly playoff contenders. Meanwhile the prospects you are looking for are on teams that are probably not playoff contenders. Why would those teams take on veterans with big contracts?

 

[Tawnos]

Sure, but if this is the case, selling off for safe-bet "futures," should be part of the game plan.

The team has looked at bringing in some younger veterans, or pre-prime established NHLers, at positions where the team is still weak. We've talked to Calgary about Monahan, Lindholm, and Hanifin. We talked to Columbus about Dubois. There's definitely a limit to how much the Rangers are willing to trade away to shore those positions up though. That's because of prospects still in the pipeline and young players still developing. For example, why spend assets for a 2C in a deal that's not 100% favorable to the Rangers when Chytil looks to be progressing towards being able to fill that role? Why do the same for an LD when you've got Miller already performing well, and Robertson looking like he's coming soon too?

In other words, I think it's already in the plan. At some point, the team does need to push for trades to improve weak areas, and there's the looming question about signing Zibanejad to a long-term contract when he'll be in his 30s for all but one season of it, but we haven't really reached the point where those things absolutely have to happen. If a great deal comes across Gorton's desk, he'll pull the trigger. He's not conservative about this stuff.

 

[True Blue]

In all seriousness, what is happening? Why are there so many space cadets that expected the youngest team in the league to be contenders right away? And why do these same culprits blame, quite literally, every single thing on the coach?

Blame it on Covid. Which really really means that it is Quinn & Gorton's fault. They were spotted in Wuhan last year.

 

[Tawnos]

There is nothing concerning about it. As others have pointed out, getting proper coaching at the NHL level is also getting rid of bad habits. Kakko could still rule Liga with those habits. But as his rookie demonstrated, it is all but impossible at the NHL level as he was a turnover machine.

There is NO coach on ANY team that is going to allow an 18 or 19 year old to continue to play the way that they did in Finland or Canadian juniors. Period.

This place has become ridiculous.

HF: "I know that Kakko's play has improved"
HF: "Is his development being impacted?"

Let's go to the video tape. Chytil comes to camp as an 18 year old. Gets sent to Hartford. Listens to what the coaching staff told him to do, knocks his own door down and plays well. Enter this year, prior to injury appeared to be thriving. Kravstov comes into camp as a 20 year old. Has less than inspiring play. Gets sent to Harford, pouts and runs home to Russia where his play suffers. But, has conversations with management and coaches, gets his head out of his tukhus and turns his game around the following season to a degree that puts him squarely back on the radar. Andersson, comes to camp, makes the team, plays mediocre. Next year, at 20 years old, comes to camp and is sent to Harford. Decides that Harford is beneath him and runs home to Sweden. Starts to send out weird tweets. Has conversations with management and winds up being traded to LA where he is promptly scratch in 3 of 11 games, and has 1 point in the other 8. All the while averaging 11:25 of time. Clearly the LA coaching staff is impacting his development the way that the Rangers did.

Mike Babcock was saying the other night that a lot of young players need to learn that the best way to have the puck in the NHL is to play well without it. Others have said that in this thread, I believe as well. It's absolutely the approach Quinn is taking with the kids coming in.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Mike Babcock was saying the other night that a lot of young players need to learn that the best way to have the puck in the NHL is to play well without it. Others have said that in this thread, I believe as well. It's absolutely the approach Quinn is taking with the kids coming in.

Good post. I'll also add that Quinn seems to have the MO that he wants the younger guys to focus on their weaknesses. And then those are addressed, the let's them go back and integrate their strengths back into their better all-around game. Player development doesn't end when a younger player enters the line-up.