Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II

[GoAwayPanarin]

like usual with quinn, i have a problem with how he does things.

he comes off as spoiled and whiny when you show up a ref. and when you do, you pay the price.

the call was unfair- no question. there should have been matching penalties on both and we were getting blown out of the bulding so i get the emotion, but he crossed the line with the ears things and so he was penalized. the fact that they scored so quickly really backfired and quinn was made to look both emotional and immature and not in control.

i find it ironic, was that quinn on the bench or tony deangelo ??

imagine if tony had done that and cost the team.

Honestly it's part of the coaches responsibility to handle that kind of stuff. Comparing that situation to if ADA had done it is meaningless.

Of all the things to complain about with Quinn (and there are a shit load of them) this really shouldn't be one of them. Refs should be held accountable.

I said that I would revisit my grade on him at the halfway point and as we're almost there, I'm less enamored with him now than I was when this poll started. He seems completely satisfied throwing out a 4th line that does nothing and his endless leash for 'veteran' players who don't belong at this level is hurting this team.

On the plus side, he split up Zibanejad and Panarin, this is the sole reason that they're actually winning games every now and then as both of them have been productive with out the other and may be the only thing keeping me from dropping his grade to a D.

 

[haveandare]

I don't mind a coach going off on the refs when it's deserved.

I'm not really one of those guys who always thinks the team I root for is being jobbed by the refs. A lot of the time they're not and historically the Rangers really haven't. Having said that, they have been on the receiving end of some really, really bad reffing recently, in my opinion more than enough justify Quinn going off about the cumulative effects of it.

The refs are treated like some sacred class of professionals who can't be questioned for way too long. That's how we got to this place where they are often terrible and inconsistent with zero repercussions. Yeah, the game moves fast and stuff will be missed, but they're getting worse even with the benefit of constant and increasing reviews of big calls.

There's an argument that it's bad for the team because it puts the refs in a place where they start being even worse toward the team out of revenge or something, but there's also an argument that it might make them think twice about how they call the team once it becomes a public topic. Also, it's better for the guys to know the coach cares and isn't going to just sit back while they get screwed.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't mind a coach going off on the refs when it's deserved.

I'm not really one of those guys who always thinks the team I root for is being jobbed by the refs. A lot of the time they're not and historically the Rangers really haven't. Having said that, they have been on the receiving end of some really, really bad reffing recently, in my opinion more than enough justify Quinn going off about the cumulative effects of it.

The refs are treated like some sacred class of professionals who can't be questioned for way too long. That's how we got to this place where they are often terrible and inconsistent with zero repercussions. Yeah, the game moves fast and stuff will be missed, but they're getting worse even with the benefit of constant and increasing reviews of big calls.

There's an argument that it's bad for the team because it puts the refs in a place where they start being even worse toward the team out of revenge or something, but there's also an argument that it might make them think twice about how they call the team once it becomes a public topic. Also, it's better for the guys to know the coach cares and isn't going to just sit back while they get screwed.

........and just watching them get screwed and not say anything was kind of AV's M.O. and there are coaches who go after refs all the time. Like Torts--like Therrien use to---like Laviolette. If you're going to have standards for one you need to apply the same standards for all.

There are a few really egregious things from this year---like the Nashville game where Buchnevich gets clipped in the head by Ryan Ellis and no accountability from either the refs or the league and yet yesterday all the uproar over Ellis getting clipped by Perry. In the same Nashville game Fabbro is just pummelling a defenseless Jesper Fast while the referee is standing right over the top of them and only when Fast is finally able to turn Fabbro over does he hit them with matching penalties. The extra penalty against Lindgren the other night was out of line. Anyone who takes pride in the job they do do it to the best of their ability---they nail the Rangers with penalty after penalty as the Oilers build up a huge lead and then they put their whistles away in the third when the Rangers are mounting a comeback. They're fingerprints are all over the result.

 

[True Blue]

Seems to me you're making that determination for me

So clearly it must be true

A. Is your statement that the only reason that the Rangers fought back is due to Edmonton stopping playing, an opinion or fact?

B. If it is an opinion, then how does it differentiate itself from all other such comebacks?

 

[True Blue]

And isn't odd that the team that was down 6-0 was the team that didn't "stop caring and playing"?

Has Quinn been perfect? Far from it. Of course he deserves criticism. Like everyone else. But the fact that he has this team overachieving to an extent that they can be considered a bubble team is a minor miracle. This team has no right to have the record that they do. Yes, some of it is due to some stellar goal tending. But to state that their record is solely in spite of him and he has nothing to do with it is pretty self serving and frankly idiotic.

 

[NernieBichols]

watching the postgame presser on MSG you can see what the brass saw in him. Straight shooting, looking for positives but not ridiculously so, exceptionally clear and thoughtful on his communication. I don't know what the disconnect is and it's frankly kinda baffling.

Its that he’s young looking and still learning his way as an NHL head coach.

 

[duhmetreE]

When I hear a coach say 'We weren't ready' 'We need to be better defensively' 'We need to be more alert' 'We were puck watching' etc... That's on him. He needs to stop the bleeding before we start losing limbs. Take a timeout and rip into your team... or do whatever is needed to get the point across

There's a major disconnect somewhere.

 

[JHS]

Translation: I am so furious the the rest of you do not see things my way. How dare you? Where is my silent majority??

Good to have you back buddy! I missed your pointed attacks at me without contributing anything.

 

[JHS]

Now if only Trotz had this roster, not only would they have been a much better team (he could get youngsters to play like seasoned vets) but they would have finished the come back.

Glad you finally see I’m right!

 

[True Blue]

Good to have you back buddy! I missed your pointed attacks at me without contributing anything.

And how I have missed you blaming Quinn for everything from personnel usage to global warming. And apparently now the press conferences are an issue as well. If you look hard enough, I bet you you can find him somewhere on the grassy knoll.

 

[JHS]

Has Quinn been perfect? Far from it. Of course he deserves criticism. Like everyone else. But the fact that he has this team overachieving to an extent that they can be considered a bubble team is a minor miracle. This team has no right to have the record that they do. Yes, some of it is due to some stellar goal tending. But to state that their record is solely in spite of him and he has nothing to do with it is pretty self serving and frankly idiotic.

Overachieving??? You honestly can’t be serious. The Rangers have better than average goaltending, a top 5 scorer, a legitimate first line, and you think they should be a bottom 10 NHL franchise??? That’s the only thing I’m reading that’s “frankly idiotic.”

Cue the excuse of “so many young players we should just be happy they can stand up out there on the ice” in 3.....2.....1....

 

[JHS]

And how I have missed you blaming Quinn for everything from personnel usage to global warming. And apparently now the press conferences are an issue as well. If you look hard enough, I bet you you can find him somewhere on the grassy knoll.

My friend I never blamed him for his press conference. I don’t care what the guy says after the game— it’s only during the game that counts.

My comments were about how going after the refs always ends in an L for the coach and puts his team in a worse spot long term. He totally lost control of himself and the game vs the Oilers over a poor call to his 3rd pair defensemen. That’s embarrassing.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Glad you finally see I’m right!

Well it depends. What are his thoughts on Sylvain Lefebvre?

 

[NYR]

C'mon now..It's the refs fault for not having the team ready until AFTER the 6th GAA was scored??
Hahaa..Just stop..Please and thank you..

 

[True Blue]

Overachieving??? You honestly can’t be serious. The Rangers have better than average goaltending, a top 5 scorer, a legitimate first line, and you think they should be a bottom 10 NHL franchise??? That’s the only thing I’m reading that’s “frankly idiotic.”

Over. Achieving. That is exactly what they are doing.

I asked you this before and you ran, no sprinted away from responding. How many successful NHL teams iced a defense with 3 rookies and a sophomore in the last 25 years? And if it is not 3 rookies and a sophomore, it is two rookies, a sophmore and a 36 year old Staal that clearly does not belong on NHL ice surfaces. Oh, and an underachieving Skeji. Oh, wait AND are the overall youngest team in the league? How many such teams have you seen?

So yes, Overachieving.

Cue the excuse of “so many young players we should just be happy they can stand up out there on the ice” in 3.....2.....1....

Cue your inability to answer my questions regarding the defensive allotment. And being the youngest team in the league has seldom contributed to having successful seasons. Unless you are going to contest that as well?

My friend I never blamed him for his press conference. I don’t care what the guy says after the game— it’s only during the game that counts.

Who cares about that? You and your silent majority?

He stood up for his players. Better than being ridiculously stoic like AV.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

And how I have missed you blaming Quinn for everything from personnel usage to global warming. And apparently now the press conferences are an issue as well. If you look hard enough, I bet you you can find him somewhere on the grassy knoll.

Watching Staal is a disaster on the level that FEMA wouldn’t even touch it so the global warming thing may not be too far off.

 

[True Blue]

Well it depends. What are his thoughts on Sylvain Lefebvre?

You had to go back there, huh? Where's JR??

 

[JHS]

Over. Achieving. That is exactly what they are doing.

I asked you this before and you ran, no sprinted away from responding. How many successful NHL teams iced a defense with 3 rookies and a sophomore in the last 25 years? And if it is not 3 rookies and a sophomore, it is two rookies, a sophmore and a 36 year old Staal that clearly does not belong on NHL ice surfaces. Oh, and an underachieving Skeji. Oh, wait AND are the overall youngest team in the league? How many such teams have you seen?

So yes, Overachieving.

Cue your inability to answer my questions regarding the defensive allotment. And being the youngest team in the league has seldom contributed to having successful seasons. Unless you are going to contest that as well?

Sooooo the fact that Breadman is a league leader in scoring, Hank and Georgie have played better than avaerage in net, Mica is on pace for a legitimate top center output season, Strome also producing at a second line player pace all mean nothing to you. We just need to look at the defense???( who rank I think first or second in point production in the NHL this season— indicating to me, and anyone else who has a clue that they are producing offensively)

Your question about other franchises who’ve made the absurd decision to play a roster with this many defensemen so young is unanswerable. I don’t have the resources to go back and look at all the rosters over the past 25 years. It’s also completely missing the point and a self serving premise. This current defense is PRODUCING offensively but can’t defend. As anyone whose played or been involved in high level sports knows, defense is taught, offense is a gift!

 

[True Blue]

Sooooo the fact that Breadman is a league leader in scoring, Hank and Georgie have played better than avaerage in net, Mica is on pace for a legitimate top center output season, Strome also producing at a second line player pace all mean nothing to you.

It does not mean nothing. But when these debates were going on in the summer, we noted that the subtraction of Zucc and Hayes and the addition of Panarin was not going to be some sort of magical boost to the standings. ZBad is pretty much doing what he did last year. Strome was good last year as well.

We just need to look at the defense???( who rank I think first or second in point production in the NHL this season— indicating to me, and anyone else who has a clue that they are producing offensively)

Defense is pretty important, don't you think? And there are things that they should be judged on besides how well offensively they can be, don't you think?

Your question about other franchises who’ve made the absurd decision to play a roster with this many defensemen so young is unanswerable. I don’t have the resources to go back and look at all the rosters over the past 25 years.

It is only unaswerable is because you know full well the answer is virtually zero. There have been no teams to my memory that did that. You cannot do a mental scan and come up with one either. I know. I tried. So you not taking that into account is fairly absurd.

It’s also completely missing the point and a self serving premise. This current defense is PRODUCING offensively but can’t defend. As anyone whose played or been involved in high level sports knows, defense is taught, offense is a gift!

And they have 3 rookies and a sophomore learning how to play defense? You DO know there is a reason that most veteran defensemen play defense much, much better than rookies. That is not by accident. Or 2 rookies, a sophomore and Staal. Or does considering that take away from the one sided narrative you are pushing so ergo, will just continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it does notmatter?

 

[NYR]

It does not mean nothing. But when these debates were going on in the summer, we noted that the subtraction of Zucc and Hayes and the addition of Panarin was not going to be some sort of magical boost to the standings. ZBad is pretty much doing what he did last year. Strome was good last year as well.

Defense is pretty important, don't you think? And there are things that they should be judged on besides how well offensively they can be, don't you think?

It is only unaswerable is because you know full well the answer is virtually zero. There have been no teams to my memory that did that. You cannot do a mental scan and come up with one either. I know. I tried. So you not taking that into account is fairly absurd.

And they have 3 rookies and a sophomore learning how to play defense? You DO know there is a reason that most veteran defensemen play defense much, much better than rookies. That is not by accident. Or 2 rookies, a sophomore and Staal. Or does considering that take away from the one sided narrative you are pushing so ergo, will just continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it does notmatter?

#1 - Hopefully Quinn won't be around THIS summer to have this debate anymore.

#2 - Welcome to the conversation.

#3 - They wouldn't make the big club in the first place if they weren't able to adhere to some kind of defensive structure.

#4 - The rest is kinda blurry nonsense..

#5 - STOP

 

[JHS]

It does not mean nothing. But when these debates were going on in the summer, we noted that the subtraction of Zucc and Hayes and the addition of Panarin was not going to be some sort of magical boost to the standings. ZBad is pretty much doing what he did last year. Strome was good last year as well.

Defense is pretty important, don't you think? And there are things that they should be judged on besides how well offensively they can be, don't you think?

It is only unaswerable is because you know full well the answer is virtually zero. There have been no teams to my memory that did that. You cannot do a mental scan and come up with one either. I know. I tried. So you not taking that into account is fairly absurd.

And they have 3 rookies and a sophomore learning how to play defense? You DO know there is a reason that most veteran defensemen play defense much, much better than rookies. That is not by accident. Or 2 rookies, a sophomore and Staal. Or does considering that take away from the one sided narrative you are pushing so ergo, will just continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it does notmatter?

I’ll be really clear. Defensemen who are young need to be taught to play defense( a coaches job— directly a knock on Quinn— exactly why I blame him and his staff for their inability to make that happen.). It’s really impossible for me to be any clearer about why the young defensemen actually need to be coached and their inability to defend is directly a result of poor coaching.

Do you think these veteran defensemen just miraculously get better or could it be the result of good coaching and experience they develop through being taught how to defend?

I remember when Stall was developing under Torts. Go back and listen to those interviews, Torts went on and on about how Stall has a ton of potential but he needs to be taught certain aspects of the game(Torts actually wanted Stall to be more offensive) but I guarantee you, Torts and his staff worked with Marc and listen, for his flaws in his game now— the guy had an incredibly good NHL career when in his prime!

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

You had to go back there, huh? Where's JR??

He’s been suspended for inappropriate comments about Kathryn Tappen.

 

[RGY]

I’ll be really clear. Defensemen who are young need to be taught to play defense( a coaches job— directly a knock on Quinn— exactly why I blame him and his staff for their inability to make that happen.). It’s really impossible for me to be any clearer about why the young defensemen actually need to be coached and their inability to defend is directly a result of poor coaching.

Do you think these veteran defensemen just miraculously get better or could it be the result of good coaching and experience they develop through being taught how to defend?

I remember when Stall was developing under Torts. Go back and listen to those interviews, Torts went on and on about how Stall has a ton of potential but he needs to be taught certain aspects of the game(Torts actually wanted Stall to be more offensive) but I guarantee you, Torts and his staff worked with Marc and listen, for his flaws in his game now— the guy had an incredibly good NHL career when in his prime!

The responsibility to coach this defense is on Ruff. Not Quinn. That’s why every HC has a staff. And that staff has at least 2 members specializing on each side of the puck. Why do you keep neglecting this part of the equation and solely blaming DQ who has a ton of responsibilities as the HC. Just like every good coach he needs to delegate certain responsibilities.

 

[aufheben]

Canning the coach of an untalented roster after 1-2 seasons is bush league Edmonton crap IMO, regardless of what you think of him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Canning the coach of an untalented roster after 1-2 seasons is bush league Edmonton crap IMO, regardless of what you think of him.

If AV survived 2017, Quinn deserves at least another year.

IF they still suck ass in a bunch of categories after next year, time to move on.