Domino666
“20 years away”
- Aug 18, 2011
- 10,423
- 5,062
Phrasing boom!!!!!
Dave Hakstol Part V
- Thread starter Hollywood Cannon
- Start date
- Status
bennysflyers16
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2004
- 86,031
- 64,302
CBC hot stove last night speculated Quenville couldn’t be ready to coach right now, he would not have to wait till summer
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly... Would you please rephrase this for me?
They said Quenneville is ready to coach now and doesn't need or necessarily want to wait until the offseason to latch on with a new team. They said he is going to want big money and at least four or five years for 20 million (total). They said that he's 60 years old and isn't necessarily interested in a rebuild situation, "which rules out LA and Anaheim" according to Kypreos.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 50,857
- 22,170
If he wants to win right away, not sure Philly is where he wants to go.
He'd be looking for at team with an established goaltender, he had Niemi, then Crawford in Chicago, don't think Elliott would entice him.
Since he has $6M this year and next year, I doubt money really matters to him, probably one last shot at a ring, since he's probably got his HOF slot locked up, he'd be doing it for fun.
He'd be looking for at team with an established goaltender, he had Niemi, then Crawford in Chicago, don't think Elliott would entice him.
Since he has $6M this year and next year, I doubt money really matters to him, probably one last shot at a ring, since he's probably got his HOF slot locked up, he'd be doing it for fun.
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
How does it work in the NHL if he were to sign with another Team?... Does he forfeit the prorated rest of the Season $6M?... Does he forfeit the difference, if any, of the two Contracts?... I'd assume he wouldn't keep the entire $6M PLUS the new Teams Contracted Salary.
In any case, he's not hurting for money... nor would he lose out on any... no matter what he does... assuming he doesn't sign for less and it's a replacement situation.
Unless he is looking for the All-Time NHL Coaching Record, it seems clear cut that he should take his time and select the best available situation for him and his family going forward... which I'd guess would be in place in the OffSeason.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
How are suppression metrics determined?
By individual actions of each player or what happens when they’re on the ice?
There are different ways. For “isolated” versions it’s what each player does. Sanheims isolated metrics aren’t that good.
As a basis of “suppression metric” it’s basically the pair of the two. At that point it would look better since Gudas is doing very well.
Speaking on the player themselves- Hagg “isolated” is better at suppression play and opportunity in front of the net than Sanheim.
Hopefully Q signs out west. We all know hextard won't even consider change.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
So for isolated do you mean someone is watching every action that he makes and decides whether or not that resulted in allowing or stopping a chance? Because outside of that I can’t see how this would accurately represent the actions of any individual player.
Audible Velvet
Registered User
Depending on the regression used and data collected- it’s really not that hard to do.
You or I, just watching the game, could come up with a regression, correlate it to SOG, SA, and HDO applicability and make a basis of which player is good at which point.
Travis Sanheim:
Around the net, there’s a lot of opportunities he’s gives up. That’s really nullified by Gudas since he’s good at suppressing around the net. Sanheim isn’t as focused there. Gudas, focuses more down low where Sanheim is good at suppressing on the upper tranche of what a HDO is (around the box).
Robert Hagg:
Really, anywhere besides the front of the net, Hagg kinda sucks. Like it’s scary how bad that graphic is for our recent top pairing Dman.
Audible Velvet
Registered User
I think Travis will get better around the net as time goes on. I hope it's just a matter of learning curve.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
You say "Around the net, there's a lot of opportunities he gives up"... based on what? How do we know it's specifically his fault they get the chance? It's not as if defensemen are static in front of the net for the entire time they're in the D-zone and everything that happens in their designated little area is their fault. Were they battling on the boards and someone just didn't cover for them properly? Or another possible scenario where something happens that isn't their fault? A red spot on a map doesn't tell me anything...
And for consistency, I wouldn't use that graphic against Hagg either, for the same reasons. If I'm not watching every single action then I can't possibly know if it was directly his fault or not.
Try and think of it this way.
1-1...
Giroux skates near the dots on Sanheim. In that region, based off of Sanheims play so far this year, Giroux is less likely to get a SOG.
Same example for Hagg: at that moment, Giroux is more likely to get a SOG or to create a scoring opportunity.
Let’s take this to the net...
Simmonds and Sanheim are battling for leverage. Simmonds will usually win this battle. Hagg, compared to Sanheim, has a better chance to shut down play.
———————————————
Just in those situations Hagg may be better suited to shut down the play. Sanheim doesn’t have to play the net as much since Gudas is really good around the net. Sanheim can focus more on the play up too in the HDO box; which is what we see. They play to each other’s strengths.
BUT— if Sanheim does find himself around the crease, he isn’t at good at shutting down play as he is near the top of the box.
Hagg, on the other hand, only plays close to a forward when they’re in the net/crease. Anywhere other than that, with the gap he gives up, forwards are more likely to get a SOG, again, which is what we see.
kudymen
Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
Yeah, I understand that that's what the statistic tells us. What I'm saying is I don't trust the validity/accuracy of the statistic itself.
Now, forgetting the statistic for a second, if we agree that the bolded is all true, I don't think that's any argument in favor of Hagg because there isn't (or shouldn't be) a situation at 5v5 where you put them on the ice and are just assuming that they're going to spend their entire shift battling in front of the net. Sanheim should be valued more because ideally you don't want to be in that situation and Sanheim is more likely to prevent it, due to his puck moving.
And I should also clarify, in that original post where I said "There is no situation where Hagg is better than Sanheim" I mean no time within the course of a game. As in, at the beginning, middle, or end and with the lead, when tied, or when behind. There's no point where I say "Oh, I really wish Hagg was out there for this!".
(I understand you're just playing devils advocate, I'm arguing against the idea, not you)
I take it that the accuracy is pretty high. Errors on regressions thatbare considered to be valid don’t have errors of +2 regarding the standard deviation of the metric.
I’m pretty sure for that heat map (basicallt SOG from those points and the density of such) it looks at:
When Sanheim is on the ice and players are being defender by him: xGA, xGA%, relCA, BS, SA, SOG, P%, and HDO. It’s literally just putting in already marked stats into an equation. Only way it’s messed up is if NHL tracks or records incorrect stats. Idk if that’s the correlated metrics in the regression by my guess is that all if not more are in there.
Beside that... this argument is almost a play to you. Literally the only spot on the ice that Hagg is considered to be better than is in a 3 by 3 square foot piece of ice right infront if the goaltender. It just played to the argument that there was a part of the ice that he’s more effective in lol.
Quite frankly- you don’t even need metrics to create that type of heat map. NHL tracks shot placements on the ice. If you take the shots where Sanheim defended, you can create the densities from there and same with Hagg.
I also don’t think people realize how BAD HAGG ACTUALLY IS.
Us: "Fire Hakstol!"
Still us: "Fire Hakstol!"
Still us: "Fire Hakstol!"
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 50,857
- 22,170
You also play pairs, Sanheim's lack of shot suppression is tolerable b/c he's paired with Gudas, when he was paired with AMac you had two Mr Softee's on the same pair which was a disaster.
Hagg is best paired with a RHD, when he's at RHD I think he has to play the puck with his off hand too much.
It's not just how good a player is, it's how well he plays with others and situations.
If I were coaching, I'd want to use Sanheim primarily 5x5 and PP2, and get him off the ice against physical lines that are good at pressuring in the D-zone.
Now in a couple years, if he finally adds strength and can hold his own, I can see him expanding into a bigger role, but right now he simply isn't physical enough in front of the net or in the corners.
Hagg is best paired with a RHD, when he's at RHD I think he has to play the puck with his off hand too much.
It's not just how good a player is, it's how well he plays with others and situations.
If I were coaching, I'd want to use Sanheim primarily 5x5 and PP2, and get him off the ice against physical lines that are good at pressuring in the D-zone.
Now in a couple years, if he finally adds strength and can hold his own, I can see him expanding into a bigger role, but right now he simply isn't physical enough in front of the net or in the corners.
As in people, the ones that matter (Hextall and Hakstol).Oh, I think they doAbout 95% of them do, anyway.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
Due to... unfortunate behavior... I’m unable to “like” this post, but I’m giving one in spirit
- Status
