Dark Side of the Ring - Viceland show

[67 others]

A lot of people paid money to see Ric Flair. You cannot deny his draw power in his prime. I'm going out on a limb and assuming you've never seen a Flair match in his prime. I'm not talking about his out of ring antics, just talking about within wrestling and he is definitely a legend there.

And he was only in WWE for a year in that run and did some pretty memorable things.

Define a lot of people? the whino's drinking out of paper bags WCW gave tickets to free so the arena's wouldn't look empty?

WCW's finances have since become public record and its pretty clear they were always losing money due to lack of attendance at arenas from their inception until Eric Bischoff turned it around briefly.

Flair was a routine man who did the same match every night no matter who his opponent was even in his prime, and he was known as such. It worked before cable television and reruns and PPV when folks could not watch everything, but his PPV drawing power was extremely limited. His short original WWE run was the era of a huge ratings drop and loss of interest in wrestling

 

[Megahab]

Define a lot of people? the whino's drinking out of paper bags WCW gave tickets to free so the arena's wouldn't look empty?

WCW's finances have since become public record and its pretty clear they were always losing money due to lack of attendance at arenas from their inception until Eric Bischoff turned it around briefly.

Flair was a routine man who did the same match every night no matter who his opponent was even in his prime, and he was known as such. It worked before cable television and reruns and PPV when folks could not watch everything, but his PPV drawing power was extremely limited. His short original WWE run was the era of a huge ratings drop and loss of interest in wrestling

I have no stats to quote but I think it's common knowledge that he was a big draw in the 1980s.

 

[67 others]

I have no stats to quote but I think it's common knowledge that he was a big draw in the 1980s.

They released their numbers and finances , including pay, to the public years ago. They were always losing money. Perhaps before his NWA /WCW days he drew territorially on the small potatoes scale.

But he was never a wrestlemania level main event draw. All the released figures say they had to paper (give away tickets) to fill arenas from WCW inception

 

[Megahab]

They released their numbers and finances , including pay, to the public years ago. They were always losing money. Perhaps before his NWA /WCW days he drew territorially on the small potatoes scale.

But he was never a wrestlemania level main event draw. All the released figures say they had to paper (give away tickets) to fill arenas from WCW inception

So, pre-1985, who do you consider a major draw?

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

In a strange twist Gangrel is the most reasonable human to ever work in the business

His shoot interviews and podcast are fun. Seems like a level-headed guy which is rare.

 

[CDJ]

Migos wrote a god damn song called “Ric Flair Drip” like 35 years after his hey-day. I think the guy had some notoriety and drawing power, regardless of your thoughts on him as a person.

 

[67 others]

So, pre-1985, who do you consider a major draw?

Nobody really. Until McMahon took it out of the dusty arenas and made it mainstream by pairing it with a fledgling MTV , wrestling was a small niche.

Flair was a good draw for the old territory system. Once wrestling got popular and more mainstream, not so much.

It's one of the reasons his net worth is about 500k.

 

[Megahab]

It's one of the reasons his net worth is about 500k.

Tell me you don't really believe this.

 

[Megahab]

Nobody really. Until McMahon took it out of the dusty arenas and made it mainstream by pairing it with a fledgling MTV , wrestling was a small niche.

Flair was a good draw for the old territory system. Once wrestling got popular and more mainstream, not so much.

It's one of the reasons his net worth is about 500k.

So has anyone ever drawn that didn't work for Vince McMahon?

 

[67 others]

Tell me you don't really believe this.

It's not exactly a secret that Flair was horrible with his money. He neglected paying taxes in his heyday and the IRS garnished his entire WWE wages in the early 2000's as a result. He got kicked out of his home for failing to pay rent a decade ago. Yes rent, not mortgage, because he doesn't own any assets.

The guy has been broke for decades.

So has anyone ever drawn that didn't work for Vince McMahon?

No more so than the local QMJHL hockey teams compared to the NHL.

 

[Megahab]

It's not exactly a secret that Flair was horrible with his money. He neglected paying taxes in his heyday and the IRS garnished his entire WWE wages in the early 2000's as a result. He got kicked out of his home for failing to pay rent a decade ago. Yes rent, not mortgage, because he doesn't own any assets.

The guy has been broke for decades.

Right, I understand that but I'm questioning what his drawing power has to do with this.

 

[67 others]

Right, I understand that but I'm questioning what his drawing power has to do with this.

For a guy with his supposed "drawing power" , he earned very much less than I expected.

But again, flair never sold pay per views very well and was a "top draw" in the age of the smaller venues but not in the big leagues

 

[Megahab]

For a guy with his supposed "drawing power" , he earned very much less than I expected.

I'm confused about your argument. Are you saying that he doesn't have money because he didn't have much drawing power or that he was irresponsible with his money?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting but I feel like you are flipping back and forth between those two.

 

[67 others]

I'm confused about your argument. Are you saying that he doesn't have money because he didn't have much drawing power or that he was irresponsible with his money?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting but I feel like you are flipping back and forth between those two.

His drawing power was limited to small arenas, he didn't make very much compared to the wwe superstars, and he was terrible with money. His first short stint in the wwe was an utter disappointment and he didn't last long

 

[CDJ]

Flair was literally in the highest drawing match of all time

now you can argue the circumstances behind it…

 

[ManofSteel55]

They released their numbers and finances , including pay, to the public years ago. They were always losing money. Perhaps before his NWA /WCW days he drew territorially on the small potatoes scale.

But he was never a wrestlemania level main event draw. All the released figures say they had to paper (give away tickets) to fill arenas from WCW inception

That was past his prime though. The time period you refer to as "small potatoes" is when he was drawing, and he was drawing consistently and at a large scale in booming territories. He filled major stadiums, its not like he was just filling bingo halls while he was NWA champion.

 

[ManofSteel55]

His drawing power was limited to small arenas, he didn't make very much compared to the wwe superstars, and he was terrible with money. His first short stint in the wwe was an utter disappointment and he didn't last long

Who cares if he was terrible with money. You're wrong about the small arenas though, just because it wasn't WWF in the 80s doesn't mean there weren't crowds. He was a big deal.

 

[Megahab]

That was past his prime though. The time period you refer to as "small potatoes" is when he was drawing, and he was drawing consistently and at a large scale in booming territories. He filled major stadiums, its not like he was just filling bingo halls while he was NWA champion.

Your post is invalid because Flair blew all his money and because he didn't draw when he was 50.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Define a lot of people? the whino's drinking out of paper bags WCW gave tickets to free so the arena's wouldn't look empty?

WCW's finances have since become public record and its pretty clear they were always losing money due to lack of attendance at arenas from their inception until Eric Bischoff turned it around briefly.

Flair was a routine man who did the same match every night no matter who his opponent was even in his prime, and he was known as such. It worked before cable television and reruns and PPV when folks could not watch everything, but his PPV drawing power was extremely limited. His short original WWE run was the era of a huge ratings drop and loss of interest in wrestling

If your talking the territory days, Ric Flair was a huge draw. The NWA would not have put the title on him if he didn’t draw.

As for Flairs routine, Flair had to make his opponents look good. And at that, he’s the GOAT. But it’s not like Bret Hart or HBK didn’t have set routines themselves. Hart had the same match repetitively and didn’t draw a dime himself.

Flair would have matches so his opponent looked good so they can make money on rematches and put asses in seats.

Bret Hart had matches so he looked good. Same with HBK.

If you are talking Monday Night Wars Flair, you are talking a washed up past his prime Flair who was still having good matches (VS Taker at WM) and having highly rated Q’s (the Flair in the asylum bit where he was teaching the patients how to strut saved Nitros quarter that episode)

I gotta call shenanigans. Flair was all that and a corn muffin during the territory days and was a big enough name he was allowed to embarrass himself way past his prime on national television.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

His drawing power was limited to small arenas, he didn't make very much compared to the wwe superstars, and he was terrible with money. His first short stint in the wwe was an utter disappointment and he didn't last long

You do know the NWA Champion got 1500 dollars a shot on top of 15% of the house, right?

Those numbers come straight from Jim Cornette. And 1500 bucks in 1980 is a hell of a lot more then what anybody not named Hogan or Dusty Rhodes was making.

 

[sabremike]

I believe in either the 70's or early 80's there was a year in Memphis with Jerry Lawler where they sold a total of 400,000 tickets for their weekly shows at the Mid South Coliseum. To put that in perspective with the possible exception of the peak year or two of the Austin Era no year of Raw comes close to that in terms of average attendance (and that's shows in different cities, Lawler did that in a single city).

 

[alko]

Flair was literally in the highest drawing match of all time

now you can argue the circumstances behind it…

What match?

 

[ManofSteel55]

If your talking the territory days, Ric Flair was a huge draw. The NWA would not have put the title on him if he didn’t draw.

As for Flairs routine, Flair had to make his opponents look good. And at that, he’s the GOAT. But it’s not like Bret Hart or HBK didn’t have set routines themselves. Hart had the same match repetitively and didn’t draw a dime himself.

Flair would have matches so his opponent looked good so they can make money on rematches and put asses in seats.

Bret Hart had matches so he looked good. Same with HBK.

If you are talking Monday Night Wars Flair, you are talking a washed up past his prime Flair who was still having good matches (VS Taker at WM) and having highly rated Q’s (the Flair in the asylum bit where he was teaching the patients how to strut saved Nitros quarter that episode)

I gotta call shenanigans. Flair was all that and a corn muffin during the territory days and was a big enough name he was allowed to embarrass himself way past his prime on national television.

Your analysis of Bret Hart is pretty awful. He was one of the best ever at making his opponent look good. He certainly wasn't selfish in the ringike you suggest.

 

[ManofSteel55]

What match?

Collision in Korea

 

[MikeyMike01]

How trustworthy is this show? I don’t know anything about wrestling.