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Confirmed with Link: [DAL/NYR] Zuccarello (30% retained) for 2019 2nd (Cond 1st*,) & 2020 3rd (Cond 1st**)

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WeNeverGetaGoodCoach said:
Anyway this rebuild looks more like a fail. We won't win lottery picks, our player development is weak, our drafting is uneven, we never tank and therefore will draft around 10th.

We had a solid core we should have kept it. Should have gotten a real coach that knows how to win in NHL. Paul MacLean or the now available Joel Quenneville. A great coach is everything, just look at the Islanders this season. They lost Tavares and signed a bunch of scrubs UFAs and they are now top team in the division. Rebuilds only work if you are really committed to tanking or great at developing young players.
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It didn't fail it's just going to take longer than some think. It's this long-standing philosophy that NY HAS to be "good enough." You can't cut through the middle and rebuild to a championship team. they almost defied science and did just that 5 years ago, though... almost.

Gorton iced the best team he possibly could, and it's hurting them now.
 
WeNeverGetaGoodCoach said:
Anyway this rebuild looks more like a fail. We won't win lottery picks, our player development is weak, our drafting is uneven, we never tank and therefore will draft around 10th.

We had a solid core we should have kept it. Should have gotten a real coach that knows how to win in NHL. Paul MacLean or the now available Joel Quenneville. A great coach is everything, just look at the Islanders this season. They lost Tavares and signed a bunch of scrubs UFAs and they are now top team in the division. Rebuilds only work if you are really committed to tanking or great at developing young players.
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One of my biggest complaints about the dark ages from 07-04 was that this team never tanked and always had shitty draft picks around the middle so no rebuilding. Either you get lottery picks to help your team (Washington, Pitt, Chicago, etc) or you get stuck in the middle and never build a contender.
 
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WeNeverGetaGoodCoach said:
Anyway this rebuild looks more like a fail. We won't win lottery picks, our player development is weak, our drafting is uneven, we never tank and therefore will draft around 10th.

We had a solid core we should have kept it. Should have gotten a real coach that knows how to win in NHL. Paul MacLean or the now available Joel Quenneville. A great coach is everything, just look at the Islanders this season. They lost Tavares and signed a bunch of scrubs UFAs and they are now top team in the division. Rebuilds only work if you are really committed to tanking or great at developing young players.
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Nash, Msl, Girardi, stepan. No prospects to replace them. Mcd slowing down. Miller a headcase. No prospects to replace them. You're living in a fantasy land right now and rewriting the reality of where we were to justify whining now
 
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shinchanuuhh said:
Nash, Msl, Girardi, stepan. No prospects to replace them. Mcd slowing down. Miller a headcase. No prospects to replace them. You're living in a fantasy land right now and rewriting the reality of where we were to justify whining now
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MSL trade was a terrible step backwards and a really bad overpayment. All we needed to do was trade Callahan for a 1st rounder. We also got ourselves in trouble by giving big contracts to our aging Dmen instead of trading them away.
 
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not a great return. rebuild wont be fast with that kinda return.

but thats what the market was. sadly. seems like not enough for such a great guy and player.

sad to see him go but now hes got a chance for the playoffs.

this rebuild is going to really suck
 
Zucc returned most likely a 2nd and 3rd

Maybe that alone should show that not every team in the league is all that interested in him. In which case perhaps he does not get huge UFA offers, in which case perhaps Dallas makes the best offer.

Why do they give up their 2020 1st? I'd guess they do not, yet if they want to extend Zucc without doing so they are going to need to talk to the Rangers and see if they can work some other deal out.

That would likely transpire right around the 2019 draft, how is a bad thing for the Rangers and Dallas to be talking at the draft given Dallas is more likely to be valuing things that can get them into the playoffs while their current best two players Benn, Sequin are still in his prime and signed long term?

If they have other cap issues at that point, Rangers should have cap space (maybe beyond whatever this unconventional thing is, which I still have no idea as there is only so many things cap space can be used on)
 
Why do the Rangers get the condition on that 1st placed if they don't think they are going to get it?

Well it makes it so Dallas can now only trade it conditionally until Zucc signs somewhere else, July 1st perhaps beyond. Yet most definitely past the 2019 draft.
 
WeNeverGetaGoodCoach said:
MSL trade was a terrible step backwards and a really bad overpayment. All we needed to do was trade Callahan for a 1st rounder. We also got ourselves in trouble by giving big contracts to our aging Dmen instead of trading them away.
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We went to the Stanley Cup Finals with MSL playing a key role. I would do that trade 1000/1000 and never look back.

It's hilarious that you are deeming the rebuild a fail when it has been exactly one calendar year. In that year we have netted a shit ton of legit prospects. I don't see how anyone can be disappointed in the rebuild right now, unless you expected it to take a year, which is not how a rebuild works.
 
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romba said:
I definitely wouldn’t offer a first for Zucc, wrong side of 30 and pending UFA and most GM’s will view his small frame as an indicator that wear and tear will catch up sooner rather than later. Just the way it is. Going to be tough for him to get a 5 year deal with good $ on the open market if that’s the length he’s looking for.
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This is why I wouldn’t be surprised if he comes back for a 3 year deal
 
I realize some people are upset we didn’t get a 1st + prospect, but I think we have to make peace with the fact that it just wasn’t there for Zucc.

Gorton got what he could. Right now, we have:

1st(NYR)
1st/2nd (TB)
1st/2nd(Dal)
2nd(NYR)

There are still pieces here which will give Gorton more chips at the table.

Some of y’all need to take a step back from the ledge.
 
romba said:
I definitely wouldn’t offer a first for Zucc, wrong side of 30 and pending UFA and most GM’s will view his small frame as an indicator that wear and tear will catch up sooner rather than later. Just the way it is. Going to be tough for him to get a 5 year deal with good $ on the open market if that’s the length he’s looking for.
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I really like this way of looking at things. If we were in the Stars position, what would we give up? I wouldn't feel comfortable trading a first for Zucc in this situation. In fact, I'd be quite nervous putting first conditions on each first rounder.

Think who the Rangers ended up acquiring with their firsts:

MSL (I believe had multiple years left -- or we knew he was re-signing)
Nash (multiple years left)
Yandle (1.5 years)

Those guys are way more valuable and were not straight rentals. I would've been pretty pissed if we were shipping off first rounders for 20 games of a guy.
 
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Inferno said:
It's actually not... It's actually really great I'm home.

There are 4 possible outcomes albeit not equally likely.

Rangers get a 2nd and a 3rd
Rangers get a 1st and a 2nd
Rangers get a 1st and a 3rd
Rangers get a 1st and a 1st


That's an amazing trade imho.
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You truly believe that Zucc will A) re-sign in Dallas, and B) Think the Stars have the roster to win 2 rounds? Or either of those?

Getting a 2nd and 3rd for a 1st line winger is pretty trash. I know, rental, etc. Still, it's not a good return. The probability of hitting on mid-late 2nds and 3rds isn't as high as you might think.
 
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Faceless said:
I really like this way of looking at things. If we were in the Stars position, what would we give up? I wouldn't feel comfortable trading a first for Zucc in this situation. In fact, I'd be quite nervous putting first conditions on each first rounder.

Think who the Rangers ended up acquiring with their firsts:

MSL (I believe had multiple years left -- or we knew he was re-signing)
Nash (multiple years left)
Yandle (1.5 years)

Those guys are way more valuable and were not straight rentals. I would've been pretty pissed if we were shipping off first rounders for 20 games of a guy.
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Plenty of teams have been doing it the past couple years. The Caps did so for Shattenkirk, I'm almost certain.
 
Igor Shestyorkin said:
You truly believe that Zucc will A) re-sign in Dallas(especially considering their tight cap), and B) Think the Stars have the roster to win 2 rounds? Or either of those?

Getting a 2nd and 3rd for a 1st line winger is pretty trash. I know, rental, etc. Still, it's not a good return. The probably of hitting on mid-late 2nds and 3rds isn't as high as you might think.
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Not tight.

Again look at their cap sheet for next year. This year doesn't matter.
 
Igor Shestyorkin said:
How? Zuccarello is an uber productive player on a horrible hockey team. Shattenkirk had a diminished role the year he got traded.
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Playmaking RD are far more valuable than 2nd line wingers. The same goes for centers and big skilled wingers. 2nd line wingers, especially this year, are just not that valuable and rarely return firsts.

Is there any example of a winger similar to Zucc that brought back a first?
 
It is a little fishy that Zuc isn't valued more highly around the league. Is it size or Euro bias? He's been a better player than Nash and Grabner were the last several years.
 
Skjeikspeare said:
It is a little fishy that Zuc isn't valued more highly around the league. Is it size or Euro bias? He's been a better player than Nash and Grabner were the last several years.
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What makes you think he's not valued more highly than Grabner? He returned more than Grabner. Grabner is also a goal scorer, which I think is more attractive to teams.

Nash was one of the best goal scorers in the league for a decade. Pedigree plays a role, whether that's fair or not is a different story.
 
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