D David Reinbacher - EHC Kloten, NL (2023, 5th, MTL)

[Hinterland]

Well, of previous Allsvenskan prospects David Pastrňák, Filip Forsberg, and Jesper Bratt all scored 8 goals and have done just fine as goal scorers in the NHL. André Burakovsky hasn't been terrible either after scoring 4.

Supports my point because none of them were top10 picks. The highest taken was Forsberg but even he was very much a project and eventually traded to Nashville for two completely useless players (Erat and Latta I believe). Also, all of these guys are much better skaters than Dvorsky and were much more well rounded players than Dvorsky back then already. They also scored more points...Pastrnak even 2x.

Again, Dvorsky is just one example. Great forward depth in this years draft but the bluechip forward prospects you can count with one hand.

 

[Wats]

AIK in general allowed the most goals against in the entire league, I don't think you can pin that on one 17-year-old.

I'm not, just pointing out being a team worst -19 in 38 games is noteworthy when you are comparing his counting stats to predraft Forsberg, Pastarnak, and Bratt.

 

[Albatros]

I'm not, just pointing out being a team worst -19 in 38 games is noteworthy when you are comparing his counting stats to predraft Forsberg, Pastarnak, and Bratt.

Even Wayne Gretzky was a minus player with all his teams except for the Edmonton Oilers, it doesn't say a lot about player quality. Dvorský's advanced defensive stats in U20 were not great, but also not bad. Just neutral to slightly positive, what you'd expect from a good younger prospect at this age.

 

[Hinterland]

Mark Crawford only would have been able to give Reinbacher freedom when the Flyers played the Lions but I don't know why he should have done that
Also, Crawford only took over the Lions after christmas.

I disagree Seider and Reinbacher are similar, too...at least not stylewise.

To summarize, this article is kinda stupid. It's better than the Athletic scam with the fake scouts but it's still dumb

 

[Wats]

Even Wayne Gretzky was a minus player with all his teams except for the Edmonton Oilers, it doesn't say a lot about player quality. Dvorský's advanced defensive stats in U20 were not great, but also not bad. Just neutral to slightly positive, what you'd expect from a good younger prospect at this age.

The point is, his season performance doesn't compare well with Pastrnak (actually led his team in scoring too), Forsberg, Bratt like you suggested. Decent year for his age sure but there have been much more issues compared to other players. Reinbacher on the other hand has played extremely well against players outside his age group.

 

[Antiillafire]

Would’ve thought this was the Dvorsky thread considering most of the conversation here.

 

[Albatros]

The point is, his season performance doesn't belong with Pastrnak (actually led his team in scoring too), Forsberg, Bratt.

The concern you expressed, though, was that he's not enough of a goal scorer after scoring 6 goals in 38 games. Pastrňák had 8 in 36 and made it to the best scorer in the NHL. I don't think anyone reasonably expects Dvorský or Reinbacher for that matter become the very best players in the NHL, but both have the ability to become very good players and at this point I see it as a coin toss between which one should be drafted as the best player available when the time comes.

 

[DatDude44]

I can see Reinbacher dropping out of the top 10 if teams like Washington, St Louis, Detroit, and Philedelphia prioritize offense.

Moore, Leonard, Dvorsky, Benson, Wood are all high offensive guys and these teams lack an elite forward moreso than defense.

Either Arizona grabs Reinbacher with their higher pick or he falls outside the top 10. Vancouver or Arizona with their 2nd pick grab him.

Interesting that Reinbacher when asked if he thinks he goes top 10 responded that he doesn’t think so.

U do know Alex Pietrangelo doesn’t play for the Blues right? They lack an elite D more so than anything. If they don’t take Reinbacher at 10 I’ll denounce my faith

 

[DinosaurBones]

I came here cause I dont want MTL to take him at #5, mostly due to the elite offensive talent in those first 5 picks. But want to hear some the good things about him just incase

 

[gsharpe]

*I haven't seen him play outside of youtube

What makes him different than Juolevi at draft day? Same height, weight, considered safe, smart players with good passing ability. Juolevi showed incredibly well at wjc and ohl playoffs. Not dynamic skaters and questions about ultimate upside.

As far as I can tell it's just handidness that really seperates them.

 

[Fulham]

Id think he is an absolute lock to get picked by Vancouver if he makes it there.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

*I haven't seen him play outside of youtube

What makes him different than Juolevi at draft day? Same height, weight, considered safe, smart players with good passing ability. Juolevi showed incredibly well at wjc and ohl playoffs. Not dynamic skaters and questions about ultimate upside.

As far as I can tell it's just handidness that really seperates them.

Reinbacher is a much better skater, passer, hitter, and very smart in all zones. The ‘ultimate upside’ question regarding Reinbacher is weak. He played in a great league and excelled. Comparing him to Juolevi is just…wrong.

 

[theVladiator]

*I haven't seen him play outside of youtube

What makes him different than Juolevi at draft day? Same height, weight, considered safe, smart players with good passing ability. Juolevi showed incredibly well at wjc and ohl playoffs. Not dynamic skaters and questions about ultimate upside.

As far as I can tell it's just handidness that really seperates them.

1. Juolevi looked very good against juniors, Reinbacher looks very good against grown men. He is much more proven at the time of the draft.
2. Juolevi, unfortunately, did not manage to develop much after the draft. I heard people blame injuries and Fortnight.

 

[Garl]

Weird comparsion with Juolevi. What is common? Height/weight, both D and that's it. Reinbacher had a better season in pro at 18 than Juolevi at 20.
Now, Juolevi was a good prospect, #5 was too high(got a boost from Laine, Pulju and Aho at WjC, but he was worth a TOP 15 pick based on his profile. Now, why he busted is a question, injuries obviously played a role.

 

[Dr Jablonski PhD]

I think Reinbacher got a lot more usage than Heiskanen and Seider did in their DYs. But still pretty interesting. I don't know what all this model takes into account, but very clearly Reinbacher is much more than his contribution to points. He showed great poise and decision making ability in all zones as an 18 y/o in the NL. At 6'2.5 and 194 lbs it's also not like his frame is fully matured, it's not

I thought he also looked good activating himself in the OZ as well

 

[lanky]

I wonder how Nemec would appear on that same chart.

 

[Hinterland]

I think Reinbacher got a lot more usage than Heiskanen and Seider did in their DYs. But still pretty interesting. I don't know what all this model takes into account, but very clearly Reinbacher is much more than his contribution to points. He showed great poise and decision making ability in all zones as an 18 y/o in the NL. At 6'2.5 and 194 lbs it's also not like his frame is fully matured, it's not

I thought he also looked good activating himself in the OZ as well

From the same source this is interesting as well.

Supports what I posted already...among defensemen drafted out of Europe, Reinbacher's draft season is comparable to Dahlin's only.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think Reinbacher's dislike among the twitter/hf scouting community is further evidence most people watch a highlight video on youtube and form an opinion.

Look at this numbers in the NLA draft year category (as a defenseman, no less) but since the points aren't flashy, he sucks offensively.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Ive been debating Willander vs Reinbacher. (Could throw Simashev in this convo too)

I like Willander's skating more, I also wonder if he has more poise with the puck. Reinbacher is further ahead at this point & had the better season. Both look like reliable top 3 minute eaters, I do wonder if in time a guy like Willander could be a little bit better, but perhaps I'm underselling Reinbachers potential to improve his game.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Ive been debating Willander vs Reinbacher. (Could throw Simashev in this convo too)

I like Willander's skating more, I also wonder if he has more poise with the puck. Reinbacher is further ahead at this point & had the better season. Both look like reliable top 3 minute eaters, I do wonder if in time a guy like Willander could be a little bit better, but perhaps I'm underselling Reinbachers potential to improve his game.

Reinbacher is really poised with the puck, that was probably the thing that stuck out most to me during the Worlds.

Willander is really good (I have 2nd, better than ASP), but I think you have to keep betting on Reinbacher's crazy progression until you have a reason not to. If Reinbacher makes significant improvement in his handling or playmaking, I think the range of outcomes is a 3 at worst.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Reinbacher is really poised with the puck, that was probably the thing that stuck out most to me during the Worlds.

Willander is really good (I have 2nd, better than ASP), but I think you have to keep betting on Reinbacher's crazy progression until you have a reason not to. If Reinbacher makes significant improvement in his handling or playmaking, I think the range of outcomes is a 3 at worst.

That's fair. I just think Willander is in a similar boat & I like some of the tools (amazing skating, already having great puck handling) a little more.

Both could project as #2/3 minute eaters imo.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Excellent D prospect, congrats austrian hockey fans!

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

That's fair. I just think Willander is in a similar boat & I like some of the tools (amazing skating, already having great puck handling) a little more.

Both could project as #2/3 minute eaters imo.

People keep saying this but his offensive game and production are not just going to going to come out of nowhere. You can't project someone as 2/3 unless that can produce at least 30 -40 points. One good U-18 tournament where he scored a bunch pp points does not change that. Reinbcaher is easily the safer projection and it's not really close.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

People keep saying this but his offensive game and production are not just going to going to come out of nowhere. You can't project someone as 2/3 unless that can produce at least 30 -40 points. One good U-18 tournament where he scored a bunch pp points does not change that. Reinbcaher is easily the safer projection and it's not really close.

Chris Tanev has never hit 30 points in a season, Brett Pesce has hit exactly 30 once. Do u consider them career #4D?

Willander has good tools, he handles the puck really well, skates really well, finds his options really well. There's potential to develop a little bit more offensively but modern minute eaters need to be able to skate really, read the play, defend on+off puck & move the puck quickly+effectively. He does all these things well.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Chris Tanev has never hit 30 points in a season, Brett Pesce has hit exactly 30 once. Do u consider them career #4D?

Willander has good tools, he handles the puck really well, skates really well, finds his options really well. There's potential to develop a little bit more offensively but modern minute eaters need to be able to skate really, read the play, defend on+off puck & move the puck quickly+effectively. He does all these things well.

Pesce has been on pace to hit 30 points multiple times. And Tanev is an anomaly, he is one of the best shutdown defensemen of the last decade. Willander is good defensively but is not even comparable to those. He is not even dominating the J20 league defensively. Simashev I could look at and say he is holding his own in the KHL but we don't have any of those comparison points for Willlander. A lot of his defensive game is predicated on him being faster and bigger than most players in the J20.

Also, I don't want to derail the Reinbacher thread with Willander discussion.