D David Reinbacher - EHC Kloten, NL (2023, 5th, MTL)

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You mean NHL comparables?

Well if you want recent comparable there's JJ Moser that have made 30 pts in 48 games as a 20 yo in the NLA back in 2020-2021.

He was drafted that year (as a 3 years overager) at the end of the 2nd round (already something not common for a 3 years overager).
He made the NHL instantly after his draft, on pace for around 30 pts (projected on a 82 games schedule).

He's now a good young player for the Yotes. Probably a guy that allowed them to trade Chychrun without after thoughts...

Otherwise you have Josi in 2008... Siegenthaler in 2015, etc...

Yeah, so that’s not actually that many good defenseman. Josi, and then a bunch of players that no one would suggest are comparable to the players you could find as comparables in Finland, Sweden, Russia, Canada, USA, even Czech Republic. Switzerland has a good league, but draft comparables are hard to come by. Doesn’t mean Reinbacher isn’t very good, but trying to base the argument for him based off how he did compared to draft-eligible players of the past in the same league is flawed logic.

 

[samsagat]

Yeah, so that’s not actually that many good defenseman. Josi, and then a bunch of players that no one would suggest are comparable to the players you could find as comparables in Finland, Sweden, Russia, Canada, USA, even Czech Republic. Switzerland has a good league, but draft comparables are hard to come by. Doesn’t mean Reinbacher isn’t very good, but trying to base the argument for him based off how he did compared to draft-eligible players of the past in the same league is flawed logic.

Mmmm ok.

The league is tough, you have a 3 years older that recently put up pts at a similar rate in the same league that made the NHL instantly afterwards and did fairly well, what you want more?

Rules of thumbs isn't always the way to go but I think we got a case here...

I think that if Habs didn't take him he wouldn't have been there very long.

Drafting isn't an exact science but Reinbacher's numbers (and overall play) at his age, in this league is something exceptional, want it or not...

 

[dave buster]

Do you have doubts about Bedard?

Your assumption is good for sigma prospects, but there's sure things on most of top crops of NHL draft, exceptional (bad) years aside...

And 2023 draft was exceptionally loaded at the top. Probably kind of 2003 revisited...

Michkov have been on NHL amateur scouts radars for probably 7-8 years. Possibly more.

He was seen as an exceptional for that long and never disappointed since.

His fall at draft day is much more about Russian factor and the fact he's signed for 3 more seasons in the KHL than anything else.
And because there was maybe a little less talented players available (still very very talented), but they represented less risk.

He would've been playing NA he would've been fighting for the 1st spot.

Are you stupid too? The key 2 words I said we’re “most prospects”. As for Bedard nobody knows how good his rookie year/individual/ team careers are going to be. Y’all are very arrogant to assume you know who’s going to be better or not. You aren’t coming across as discussing opinions you come across as very certain you can predict the future.

 

[samsagat]

Are you stupid too? The key 2 words I said we’re “most prospects”. As for Bedard nobody knows how good his rookie year/individual/ team careers are going to be. Y’all are very arrogant to assume you know who’s going to be better or not. You aren’t coming across as discussing opinions you come across as very certain you can predict the future.

Michkov isn't "most prospect".

That's the point here.

The guy's an exceptional, just like Bedard, and those kind of prospect don't miss out...

 

[dave buster]

Michkov isn't "most prospect".

That's the point here.

The guy's an exceptional, just like Bedard, and those kind of prospect don't miss out...

Dawg shut up if he was on Bedards level and a guaranteed slam dunk 100 plus point winger he’d have been picked 2nd, don’t pretend there’s not a very real possibility Michkov comes over and become the next Vitali Kravtsov.

 

[samsagat]

Dawg shut up if he was on Bedards level and a guaranteed slam dunk 100 plus point winger he’d have been picked 2nd, don’t pretend there’s not a very real possibility Michkov doesn’t come over and become the next Vitali Kravtsov.

No comparison whatsoever.

Have you seen him play?

He's an Einsteinesque hockey player. Manipulative and deceiving as they can be

The guy's a top elite mastermind with plenty of skillz.

He's in a different category.

His contract situation, Russian factor and the fact 2023 was an exceptional draft year at the top made him fall to 7th overall.

He was considered 1st overall material for the last 7 drafts or so (2016 been the draft identified as the last one he might not be).

 

[dave buster]

No comparison whatsoever.

Have you seen him play?

He's an Einsteinesque hockey player. Manipulative and deceiving as they can be

The guy's a top elite mastermind with plenty of skillz.

He's in a different category.

His contract situation, Russian factor and the fact 2023 was an exceptional draft year at the top made him fall to 7th overall.

He was considered 1st overall material for the last 7 drafts or so (2016 been the draft identified as the last one he might not be).

Damn dude get off the kids dick we get it you’re a Michkov fanboy wait until the kid plays in the NHL first. Shut up and let the thread get back to Reinbacher.

 

[Hinterland]

There was, and he was alone on his island. Even Josi didn't do as well...

Michkov has establish pts records everywhere he's been for about 5-6 years (probably more). He's an exceptional.

But Reinbacher 22 pts in 46 games in the NLA for a DY defenseman is a pt record too.

NLA is no slouch, as per CHL (Champion Hockey League, not Canadian Hockey League), a competition between the best teams of European pro hockey leagues, NLA is the third best pro league of Europe. Behind KHL and SHL.

My step mother is Swiss and let me tell you that hockey is very, very popular in that country.
Furthermore it's a rich and safe country (compared to Russia, for example), so they have the means to attract good foreign hockey players.

The level of play is very good and the game they play is a little more alike to the one practiced in NA (more physical than other European hockey leagues).

I was a little disappointed because Michkov was a rare talent.

But we all knew there was big chances that Habs brass wouldn't take him, and my 2nd choice was clearly Reinbacher.

Those kind of Swiss knife () defenseman that can play against opposing team best players, putting on his share of pts and eat major minutes, playing all the critical situations, are hard to obtain.
You get the chance to draft one, you go for it.

Plus he's big, skates well, he's a righty, efficient in his own zone (against men in a very competitive league) and doesn't back down from physical play.

You can't be more complete than that...

We're talking Pietrangelo territory, you win championship with that kind of defenseman.

Firstly, the current ChL is a joke. Prize money is so low, Swiss teams are actually losing money when taking part. This is also why the KHL was never interested in participating. SHL clubs don't have money whatsoever and very low salaries and insurance so for them it's attractive while for Swiss teams these games are exhibitions. Fans don't care either. Most NL regular season games are sold out, many teams always sell out. Yet still CHL attendance is usually well below 50%. Zug is one of the teams mostly selling out, yet they only sold 5500 of 7200 tickets for the CHL semifinal last season. There was one single real CHL with the KHL taking part and actual money in it (powered by Gazprom). That was won by the ZSC Lions and no SHL team qualified for the semis. Other semifinalists were Espoo Blues and KHL's Ufa&Magnitogorsk.

So it's important to point out that KHL teams never took part in the current competition and because of the lack of money involved it's also not the right tool to compare leagues.
KHL used to be Europe's best league...by far actually. I'm not sure if that's still the case though. If it wasn't before, with the increased number of imports and better imports available, NL is now at least equal with SHL and Liiga, probably better. Certainly, NL is much better now than it used to be when Josi played. Just to give some perspective. However, I'd say it's still easier to score in the NL than in the SHL though just because the SHL is so much more structured, defensive minded and much better coached. Goaltending might still be better as well because the Swiss goalie pipeline, after being historically good, had a few dry years lately. I expect that to change though because there are/will be more promising Swiss goalies breaking into the league and with the increased number of imports, teams are now more willing to hire import goalies.

 

[samsagat]

Firstly, the current ChL is a joke. Prize money is so low, Swiss teams are actually losing money when taking part. This is also why the KHL was never interested in participating. SHL clubs don't have money whatsoever and very low salaries and insurance so for them it's attractive while for Swiss teams these games are exhibitions. Fans don't care either. Most NL regular season games are sold out, many teams always sell out. Yet still CHL attendance is usually well below 50%. Zug is one of the teams mostly selling out, yet they only sold 5500 of 7200 tickets for the CHL semifinal last season. There was one single real CHL with the KHL taking part and actual money in it (powered by Gazprom). That was won by the ZSC Lions and no SHL team qualified for the semis. Other semifinalists were Espoo Blues and KHL's Ufa&Magnitogorsk.

So it's important to point out that KHL teams never took part in the current competition and because of the lack of money involved it's also not the right tool to compare leagues.
KHL used to be Europe's best league...by far actually. I'm not sure if that's still the case though. If it wasn't before, with the increased number of imports and better imports available, NL is now at least equal with SHL and Liiga, probably better. Certainly, NL is much better now than it used to be when Josi played. Just to give some perspective. However, I'd say it's still easier to score in the NL than in the SHL though just because the SHL is so much more structured, defensive minded and much better coached. Goaltending might still be better as well because the Swiss goalie pipeline, after being historically good, had a few dry years lately. I expect that to change though because there are/will be more promising Swiss goalies breaking into the league and with the increased number of imports, teams are now more willing to hire import goalies.

Thanx for the input.

Well, I took CHL ranking because it's the only reference we have as a competition between euro leagues.

Might not be perfect, but it's something as far as information.

 

[samsagat]

Damn dude get off the kids dick we get it you’re a Michkov fanboy wait until the kid plays in the NHL first. Shut up and let the thread get back to Reinbacher.

Man, you weren't there when the respect train passed by your education.

I don't know how you've been raised, but it look to me as some kicks in the ass were lost in the process...

Communication isn't your forte, I have empathy for your spouse, if you have one...

 

[SlafCaufield]

Reinbacher is an absolute stud

ive been studying clips of him and personally I see Chris Pronger

 

[majormajor]

Reinbacher is an absolute stud

ive been studying clips of him and personally I see Chris Pronger

Lol this is why we don't trust clips!

Perhaps you have more basis than that to make the comparison, but I don't think they play alike. Pronger was also 6'6 and that was kind of an essential part of why he could play the way he did.

 

[Ezpz]

Again, a comparable doesn't exist because Reinbacher is the first real prospect coming out of the Swiss league after the Russian invasion of Ukraine destroyed the competition in the KHL and all the best European free agents started moving to the Swiss league. The league he played in is significantly stronger than the one Matthews did when he went first overall.

Likewise, Michkov is playing in a weaker KHL than all the comparables whose records he is beating. I think if you asked the scouting departments of the league you would find a lot more teams were high on Reinbacher than HFBoards. I still wanted Michkov because I think in the grand scheme the Habs needed a scoring star more than a defenseman and don't think the Habs are going to finish bottom 5 again. But I was not unhappy to get Reinbacher and I still wanted him more than Leonard.

Anyone who ignores just how much worse the KHL is now or how much stronger the Swiss league is is playing a fool's game. This isn't North America where the NHL has been the best league since 1918 with zero changes. The strength of Euro leagues fluctuates from time to time for a variety of reasons, usually political like the split of Czechoslovakia.

 

[person5000]

Again, a comparable doesn't exist because Reinbacher is the first real prospect coming out of the Swiss league after the Russian invasion of Ukraine destroyed the competition in the KHL and all the best European free agents started moving to the Swiss league. The league he played in is significantly stronger than the one Matthews did when he went first overall.

Likewise, Michkov is playing in a weaker KHL than all the comparables whose records he is beating. I think if you asked the scouting departments of the league you would find a lot more teams were high on Reinbacher than HFBoards. I still wanted Michkov because I think in the grand scheme the Habs needed a scoring star more than a defenseman and don't think the Habs are going to finish bottom 5 again. But I was not unhappy to get Reinbacher and I still wanted him more than Leonard.

Anyone who ignores just how much worse the KHL is now or how much stronger the Swiss league is is playing a fool's game. This isn't North America where the NHL has been the best league since 1918 with zero changes. The strength of Euro leagues fluctuates from time to time for a variety of reasons, usually political like the split of Czechoslovakia.

Pfft….do some research. Khl scoring is not up. Cute little western perspective you have.

 

[jfhabs]

To me he projects as a right handed Noah Hanifin, so essentially a top pair dman or at worst a number 3. The problem is Michkov projects as a Kucherov type, so you’re leaving a lot of talent and skill on the board.

I have the same view. I think Reinbacher has a bit more snarl in him tho

 

[Ezpz]

Pfft….do some research. Khl scoring is not up. Cute little western perspective you have.

Scoring may not be up but that is irrelevant to the point that the quality of competition is lower.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

To me he projects as a right handed Noah Hanifin, so essentially a top pair dman or at worst a number 3. The problem is Michkov projects as a Kucherov type, so you’re leaving a lot of talent and skill on the board.

I think you are over estimating the skating ability of both these prospects. I suspect if Reinbacher had Hanifin’s level of skating, he would have been taken higher than 5OA. As for Michkov, it remains to be seen if he has the skating to recreate the success he had in Europe. But we shall see if Montreal did in effect leave a lot of talent on the board or wisely took a pass.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

To me he projects as a right handed Noah Hanifin, so essentially a top pair dman or at worst a number 3. The problem is Michkov projects as a Kucherov type, so you’re leaving a lot of talent and skill on the board.

Id bet he becomes a better player than Hanifin.

There’s a lot of McAvoy and Pietrangelo in his game. This kid will be a solid player for 1000+ games If he’s healthy.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Id bet he becomes a better player than Hanifin.

There’s a lot of McAvoy and Pietrangelo in his game. This kid will be a solid player for 1000+ games If he’s healthy.

Much more Pietrangelo than McAvoy.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

would it be better for him to go back to Switzerland for another year or play in the AHL next season? dont know much about the swizz league but i like how Jiricek and Nemec played in the A last season

 

[montreal]

would it be better for him to go back to Switzerland for another year or play in the AHL next season? dont know much about the swizz league but i like how Jiricek and Nemec played in the A last season

it sounds like he will be back in the NL next season, or so I hope as I don't want to see him on the Habs like they did with Slaf.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I think Reinbacher is an excellent pick for Montréal. Badly needed a bigger punishing RHD with top pair potential. Him playing next season in the Swiss league will be great for his development and could be setting the Habs up to have him break in 2024-25 full time.

 

[Guadana]

Was trying to read about the game of Reinbacher, but faced false narratives about KHL and Michkov.
Montreal fans should accept that their club rejected a much more talented player solely for political reasons only, and finally move on to the excitement of their very talented D prospect, who will surely play in the first pair in the future.

 

[Hinterland]

Was trying to read about the game of Reinbacher, but faced false narratives about KHL and Michkov.
Montreal fans should accept that their club rejected a much more talented player solely for political reasons only, and finally move on to the excitement of their very talented D prospect, who will surely play in the first pair in the future.

If this was political, why do you think Montreal drafted Volokhin?

It was very much a personal decision not to draft Michkov.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Id bet he becomes a better player than Hanifin.

There’s a lot of McAvoy and Pietrangelo in his game. This kid will be a solid player for 1000+ games If he’s healthy.

McAvoy is like the fourth best defenseman in the NHL and Pietrangelo wasn’t far from that at his best. If that’s what he becomes, he’s a steal at 5OA and almost certainly not worse than more than one or two from this draft.