D David Reinbacher - EHC Kloten, NL (2023, 5th, MTL)

[Fantomas]

As far as who's better currently, it's hard to say

It's not hard to say.

 

[Boxscore]

Dawg shut up if he was on Bedards level and a guaranteed slam dunk 100 plus point winger he’d have been picked 2nd, don’t pretend there’s not a very real possibility Michkov comes over and become the next Vitali Kravtsov.

Talent-wise, Michkov is close to Bedard. He also could be a slightly better goal scorer. However, he will not score as many overall points due to Bedard's elite passing.

In their prime...

Bedard: 60/75/130
Michkov: 60/50/110

Their career years...

Bedard: 65/80/145
Michkov: 70/55/125

Yes, Michkov is that special. At his age, he's absolutely shredded his historic and modern comparables.

The reasons he fell are simple...

1. He is under contract in the KHL for 3 years, although both the player and Daniel Briere hinted that they can possibly get him over here earlier.

2. The social tensions in Russia.

3. Some teams feel they haven't seen enough of him in person and don't want to solely rely on film and a few live scouting sessions.

4. He declined to meet with the Arizona Coyotes at the very least.

Passing on him had nothing to do with his skill. This time last year there was talk from many hockey people that if it weren't for his situation he could challenge Bedard for 1st overall -- and that he would be the unanimous #1 pick most years. When he faced Bedard H2H at age 16 he outplayed him and outproduced him. Scouts who have watched him closely compare him to a hybrid of Malkin and Kaprizov. When I watch him -- and I've watched almost every minute of film available on him -- I see a modern day Sergei Makarov with a violent approach to shooting.

Teams passed on him because they are afraid to swing for the fences and take any risk. Every team but the Blackhawks will regret it. San Jose, Montreal, and Arizona will be haunted by it. And I even think Reinbacher will be nice player.

 

[Guadana]

If this was political, why do you think Montreal drafted Volokhin?

It was very much a personal decision not to draft Michkov.

Its Reinbacher thread.
Because it was, it was obvious before the draft, for outside viewer. Personal decision is to not draft him because of politics, three years contract and bad culture in the system. Words about Demidov from different draft as a better prospect and player-bad apple, who is just as hockey freak as McKinnon isn't the issues of Michkov, its an issue of mtl managing group, who is trying to cover their backs by weak insulting of generational talent.

Now let's just accept that mtl preferred less talent, but its not a problem of player, and specifically its not making his talent lesser. Reinbacher is very talented two way D with great physicality, active stick, shot and control of the zone. He isn't consistent but it's okay for 17-18 yo defenseman in adult league with real competition. Mtl fans just doesn't need to tell fairy tails about not so big talent/bad character of Michkov or ruined competition in KHL to be happy about drafting Reinbacher. He is great prospect, Michkov is awesome prospect, both will be very important players for their nhl teams, and they only ones who should be discussed are Bobrov and Hughes, who made that decision and after they are trying to cover their decision by false definitions.
Kravtsov comparison, destroyed competition in KHL? Its pathetic.
Its not a first time, when Russian player was drafted later because of Russian factor. Its okay to admit it. Let's turn the conversation to Reinbacher.

 

[Guadana]

Everyone is still punking this pick. Habs fans just trying to talk themselves into it.

Michkov >>>> Reinbacher
Leonard >> Reinbacher
Benson >> Reinbacher


This doesn't even look like a highlight

Leonard isn't way better than Reinbacher, may be better, but its not that far, Benson isn't better. Benson has a lot of issues to be first line center in NHL. He is talented player, but is far from being perfect. Reinbacher has real potential to be if not the first, than second best defenseman of mtl team. And first pair defenseman is more important than first line wingers or second line center.

 

[dave buster]

Talent-wise, Michkov is close to Bedard. He also could be a slightly better goal scorer. However, he will not score as many overall points due to Bedard's elite passing.

In their prime...

Bedard: 60/75/130
Michkov: 60/50/110

Their career years...

Bedard: 65/80/145
Michkov: 70/55/125

Yes, Michkov is that special. At his age, he's absolutely shredded his historic and modern comparables.

The reasons he fell are simple...

1. He is under contract in the KHL for 3 years, although both the player and Daniel Briere hinted that they can possibly get him over here earlier.

2. The social tensions in Russia.

3. Some teams feel they haven't seen enough of him in person and don't want to solely rely on film and a few live scouting sessions.

4. He declined to meet with the Arizona Coyotes at the very least.

Passing on him had nothing to do with his skill. This time last year there was talk from many hockey people that if it weren't for his situation he could challenge Bedard for 1st overall -- and that he would be the unanimous #1 pick most years. When he faced Bedard H2H at age 16 he outplayed him and outproduced him. Scouts who have watched him closely compare him to a hybrid of Malkin and Kaprizov. When I watch him -- and I've watched almost every minute of film available on him -- I see a modern day Sergei Makarov with a violent approach to shooting.

Teams passed on him because they are afraid to swing for the fences and take any risk. Every team but the Blackhawks will regret it. San Jose, Montreal, and Arizona will be haunted by it. And I even think Reinbacher will be nice player.

You and others could certainly be right about how good Michkov will become I wanted Montreal to pick him, but we ended up picking Reinbacher. Why not wait at least a couple years and see who’s better before declaring undoubtedly that Montreal and San Jose will be haunted for not picking Michkov?

 

[Garl]

Now, I finally got a confirmation on the fact that
Michkov is truly a generational prospect. He had a pedestrian season and didnt make SKA because he is "manipulative genius of Einstein level"

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Passing on him had nothing to do with his skill. This time last year there was talk from many hockey people that if it weren't for his situation he could challenge Bedard for 1st overall -- and that he would be the unanimous #1 pick most years.

I like Michkov and wish him the best, but you can say the same about many different prospects pretty much every year. Every draft there are guys who are pre-season slam dunk top 3 / top 5 picks who slide, and every year there are guys who are pre-season nobodies who rise into top 10 picks. Look at Shane Wright just the year before for an example of a surprising slide, and there are far steeper slides than that if you study drafts. So these pre-season rankings don't prove anything. Sometimes sliders are Russian, but they can come from anywhere - teams rightly or wrongly sour on some players over the course of their draft year. Happened a bit to Michkov this year. He was still picked fairly high.

Personally, I like Reinbacher's upside. If he can hit, I think he could turn out to be a very good pick. For me, I question more San Jose's decision in the top 5, but Montreal (and unfortunately DR himself from some angry fans) seems to be getting all the flack for not picking MM, even though there were 6 teams that passed on him. The joys of a passionate fan base...

 

[Hinterland]

I like Michkov and wish him the best, but you can say the same about many different prospects pretty much every year. Every draft there are guys who are pre-season slam dunk top 3 / top 5 picks who slide, and every year there are guys who are pre-season nobodies who rise into top 10 picks. Look at Shane Wright just the year before for an example of a surprising slide, and there are far steeper slides than that if you study drafts. So these pre-season rankings don't prove anything. Sometimes sliders are Russian, but they can come from anywhere - teams rightly or wrongly sour on some players over the course of their draft year. Happened a bit to Michkov this year. He was still picked fairly high.

Personally, I like Reinbacher's upside. If he can hit, I think he could turn out to be a very good pick. For me, I question more San Jose's decision in the top 5, but Montreal (and unfortunately DR himself from some angry fans) seems to be getting all the flack for not picking MM, even though there were 6 teams that passed on him. The joys of a passionate fan base...

Fully agree with your post except that Simashev was the reach, not Smith. Smith went about right where he was expected to go.

Simashev nobody expected to go even close from top 10. I didn't even have him as a 1st rounder on my list. Now I may be just a random hockey fan but Central Scouting, maybe the best source for European prospects, had him 19th among international skaters. Tells you everything you need to know. Doesn't mean it won't work out but unlike SJ picking Smith, this was one heck of a punt.

 

[Kaladin]

You can't be more complete than that...

We're talking Pietrangelo territory, you win championship with that kind of defenseman.

You're comparing him to Pietro another guy earlier in the thread said he's a RH noah hanifin. Scouts hae said Brett Pesce, habs fans are saying Hedman, Josi etc. The comparables for this guy are all over the place.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Reinbacher is comparable to Noah Dobson.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Dawg shut up if he was on Bedards level and a guaranteed slam dunk 100 plus point winger he’d have been picked 2nd, don’t pretend there’s not a very real possibility Michkov comes over and become the next Vitali Kravtsov.

While I think Bedard will have the better career it won't be by much IMHO.

I mean you can dance around the truth and try to roid rage your point but Matvei was passed over because of his contract and nothing more.
The fact remains that in every tournament head to head Matvei was just as productive and in most cases more productive despite having a weaker overall team.
The fact you compare him to Kravstov shows how clueless you are, (sorry Jovo)
The kid is like a surgeon with two brains.
It's OK to be a Homer and defend the choice your GM made, something tells me based on a number of his decisions you will get lots of practice.

Reinbacher is a fine 2way D that might put up 30 points a year while eating minutes on the 2nd pair bit for 5th overall I want a dman that will be a 70+ points guy or a 50 point defensive unit, he's likely neither. The habs needed an impact forward in the worst way and they passed on one or more

 

[Fatass]

While I think Bedard will have the better career it won't be by much IMHO.

I mean you can dance around the truth and try to roid rage your point but Matvei was passed over because of his contract and nothing more.
The fact remains that in every tournament head to head Matvei was just as productive and in most cases more productive despite having a weaker overall team.
The fact you compare him to Kravstov shows how clueless you are, (sorry Jovo)
The kid is like a surgeon with two brains.
It's OK to be a Homer and defend the choice your GM made, something tells me based on a number of his decisions you will get lots of practice.

Reinbacher is a fine 2way D that might put up 30 points a year while eating minutes on the 2nd pair bit for 5th overall I want a dman that will be a 70+ points guy or a 50 point defensive unit, he's likely neither. The habs needed an impact forward in the worst way and they passed on one or more

Yup. Habs should have picked Michkov. They are a rebuilding team and will pick top 5 (or in that ballpark) during the years they’re waiting for him to come over anyway. Imagine inserting Michkov into a young star studded lineup in three seasons! Like you say, Reinbacher will (likely) be a solid top four guy. But he’s more a complimentary piece than a key core piece, like Michkov.

 

[dave buster]

While I think Bedard will have the better career it won't be by much IMHO.

I mean you can dance around the truth and try to roid rage your point but Matvei was passed over because of his contract and nothing more.
The fact remains that in every tournament head to head Matvei was just as productive and in most cases more productive despite having a weaker overall team.
The fact you compare him to Kravstov shows how clueless you are, (sorry Jovo)
The kid is like a surgeon with two brains.
It's OK to be a Homer and defend the choice your GM made, something tells me based on a number of his decisions you will get lots of practice.

Reinbacher is a fine 2way D that might put up 30 points a year while eating minutes on the 2nd pair bit for 5th overall I want a dman that will be a 70+ points guy or a 50 point defensive unit, he's likely neither. The habs needed an impact forward in the worst way and they passed on one or more

I’ll never understand being so infatuated with a prospect that’s never played in the NHL that people constantly just completely write off other prospects. You say 30 points a year for Reinbacher and you call me clueless? Shut up and take your dick riding BS over to the Michkov thread and let the Reinbacher talk continue.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Id bet he becomes a better player than Hanifin.

There’s a lot of McAvoy and Pietrangelo in his game. This kid will be a solid player for 1000+ games If he’s healthy.

I could be alone here, but I see McAvoy and Pie being quite different players.

The McAvoy comparison makes a bit more sense to me, but maybe without the 55pt offensive potential.

Getting McAvoy-lite would be a pretty sweet outcome.

Reinbacher is comparable to Noah Dobson.

Anyone who has watched Dobson for the last 1.5 years would likely disagree. Much more offensive upside but his defensive game has not translated to the NHL level yet. I guess you are saying Dobson as a prospect, although even that I am not sure if right as Dobson was pretty offensively spectacular for Acadie-Bath and Rouyn-Noranda.

Would a rich-man's Adam Larsson work? As a prospect, Larsson was a tanky boy that could skate, and dominated the middle of the ice and the boards in his own end. He had more offensive upside as a prospect as well. Carved out a nice career as a #2dman who plays all situations except PP.

I remember watching Larsson live at the WJCs and thinking "this kid is really something". Very hard to get around him or win battles against him, he just always seemed to have you pinned to the outside or closed off.

 

[Fatass]

I’ll never understand being so infatuated with a prospect that’s never played in the NHL that people constantly just completely write off other prospects. You say 30 points a year for Reinbacher and you call me clueless? Shut up and take your dick riding BS over to the Michkov thread and let the Reinbacher talk continue.

30-40 points and a solid defensive game is a heck of an important D man. That’s a guy who could compliment an elite D man on a top pairing, while being a PKer too. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[dave buster]

30-40 points and a solid defensive game is a heck of an important D man. That’s a guy who could compliment an elite D man on a top pairing, while being a PKer too. Nothing wrong with that.

you’re not wrong at all. Kaiden Guhle just had 18 points in 44 games I just think Reinbacher has a little more offensive potential to his game.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

you’re not wrong at all. Kaiden Guhle just had 18 points in 44 games I just think Reinbacher has a little more offensive potential to his game.

40pts + shutdown capable would make him a top 20 dman in the league. Even McAvoy hovers around 50, and I have him in the yearly Norris convo.

Slavin is only 1 inch + 15 lbs heavier than Reinbacher right now, and only maxes out around 35pts, but is still a top 5-10dman.

 

[dave buster]

40pts + shutdown capable would make him a top 20 dman in the league. Even McAvoy hovers around 50, and I have him in the yearly Norris convo.

Fair enough point I’m hoping that he’ll be solid 2 way RHD with solid defensive skills and around 40-45 points a year. We just drafted the kid he was definitely not my choice for 5th OA but he’s here now time will tell I could be completely wrong.

 

[Guadana]

I like Michkov and wish him the best, but you can say the same about many different prospects pretty much every year. Every draft there are guys who are pre-season slam dunk top 3 / top 5 picks who slide, and every year there are guys who are pre-season nobodies who rise into top 10 picks. Look at Shane Wright just the year before for an example of a surprising slide, and there are far steeper slides than that if you study drafts. So these pre-season rankings don't prove anything. Sometimes sliders are Russian, but they can come from anywhere - teams rightly or wrongly sour on some players over the course of their draft year. Happened a bit to Michkov this year. He was still picked fairly high.

Personally, I like Reinbacher's upside. If he can hit, I think he could turn out to be a very good pick. For me, I question more San Jose's decision in the top 5, but Montreal (and unfortunately DR himself from some angry fans) seems to be getting all the flack for not picking MM, even though there were 6 teams that passed on him. The joys of a passionate fan base...

No, its not Wright situation. Its about politics only and need. And stupid management of course. Michkov showed skills and result in second best league and words about his character issues(hockey maniac 1OA McKinnon says hello) are pure damage control. So by their decision they made damage to their franchise - they didn't drafted generational talent, they made damage to their prospect - Reinbacher is a great prospect and deserved all positive attention and love from the fanbase, they made damage to the fanbase - they are trying to protect their franchise and the most crazy part pissing on Reinbacher because he isn't Michkov.
The only problem is mtl management who decided what they decided. Both prospect are great, Michkov absolutely deserved to be picked as #2-#5, Reinbacher deserved to be picked #5-#8.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

30-40 points and a solid defensive game is a heck of an important D man. That’s a guy who could compliment an elite D man on a top pairing, while being a PKer too. Nothing wrong with that.

if Hutson pans out he would be perfect next to him

 

[kyle44]

The fact remains that in every tournament head to head Matvei was just as productive and in most cases more productive despite having a weaker overall team.

You keep saying every tournament like there are lots of examples. They only played in one official tournament together when Bedard was 15.

If you count the cancelled U-20 in 2021-22, Bedard had 4+1 in 3 games and Michkov had 3+0.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

30-40 points and a solid defensive game is a heck of an important D man. That’s a guy who could compliment an elite D man on a top pairing, while being a PKer too. Nothing wrong with that.

Not with a top-5 pick, in a strong year.

 

[Fatass]

Not with a top-5 pick, in a strong year.

What D men could the Habs have chosen instead, who look like they have a higher ceiling?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Not with a top-5 pick, in a strong year.

That's a solid top 5 pick in any year. 23+ minute, all-situations 40+ point defensemen that play physical, lockdown defense and skate very well are very, very hard to find. Arguably as valuable as a top line 20 minute a night 2-way center. There's a reason these kinds of players tend to get paid 8 million or more.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

What D men could the Habs have chosen instead, who look like they have a higher ceiling?

Why we had to absolutely take a D-man ? Plenty of good forwards were available and we need that too.