CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[Tom ServoMST3K]

There are similarities elsewhere. But there’s a special kind of craziness in AZ. Our state Supreme Court today decided an 1864 territorial law was perfectly fine.

IIRC Specifically municipal politics in Arizona are weird, because Phoenix is so divided? - not even culturally, but just population wise between different municipalities inside the Phoenix Metro Area.

when your biggest city isn't able to point in one direction for a lot of things, it has a bunch of weird knock on effects.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I mean, realistically, any developer is going to be looking to utilize every possible avenue they have to save money/tax breaks etc. Like was pointed out in so many other threads when Tempe was going through the vote, there are plenty of other developments on the lake that had tax breaks and incentives. Every city does it, every state does it, every developer does it.

True, but we're not talking about a tax break here, it's an additional tax to patrons of the district and thus Coyote fans.

It was interpreted that way because a former Coyotes executive who left the team last December is now working on behalf of the Arizona Rising pro soccer team. And they’re working with a lobbyist who the Coyotes previously hired for work on TED.

Oh shit, yeah, I forgot about the lobbyist!

 

[BB79]

And you wouldn't be allowed to bid even if you had the money.

Touche

 

[TheLegend]

True, but we're not talking about a tax break here, it's an additional tax to patrons of the district and thus Coyote fans.

Yep… Theme Park District is a CFD on steroids. It it isn’t a tax “break” though.

I’d like to see how they handle the property tax issue.

Oh shit, yeah, I forgot about the lobbyist!

Hey….. those guys get around ya know.

 

[Ernie]

Phoenix will generate income from sales tax in the ED, certainly more than any loss at Footprint

Do you have numbers to back this up? Phoenix will be losing their share of revenues from Footprint for any events that are diverted to Meruelo's arena.

 

[PredsHead]

 

[TheLegend]

Gotta love how politicians can backstoke on a dime and still play the victim. It's an art.

I'd say he's heard from a lot of his residents who vote and are also Coyotes fans.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Do you have numbers to back this up? Phoenix will be losing their share of revenues from Footprint for any events that are diverted to Meruelo's arena.

Obviously not, the ED isn't even built yet. I'd take and I'm certain Phoenix will take, tax revenue from every day of the week at a multitude of bars, restaurants, retail shops, etc., not to mention new property tax revenue, over random shared revenue from games and concerts every time.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Do you have numbers to back this up? Phoenix will be losing their share of revenues from Footprint for any events that are diverted to Meruelo's arena.

What's it matter to you? He's building it with his own money, you should be jumping for joy.

I also find it odd you aren't asking how much they already make from footprint already so you can decipher what they might lose and would need to make up.....

 

[TheLegend]

What's it matter to you? He's building it with his own money, you should be jumping for joy.

I also find it odd you aren't asking how much they already make from footprint already so you can decipher what they might lose and would need to make up.....

He hasn't figured out it doesn't matter to Phoenix because they would get the revenue from both. Ishiba might not like it, but he also doesn't own the arena and enjoys all the benefits from it.

If TED had been built it would have been a completely different story...... hence why they used Sky Harbor as an excuse to oppose it.

And Glendale would be looking at battling a city with a 2 to 1 arena advantage.

 

[Ernie]

Obviously not, the ED isn't even built yet. I'd take and I'm certain Phoenix will take, tax revenue from every day of the week at a multitude of bars, restaurants, retail shops, etc., not to mention new property tax revenue, over random shared revenue from games and concerts every time.

Worth it to remember those tax revenues come with extra costs as well, ie policing, fire, etc etc. I guess it depends on what the revenue sharing is from Footprint and what their long term plans are there.

What's it matter to you? He's building it with his own money, you should be jumping for joy.

I also find it odd you aren't asking how much they already make from footprint already so you can decipher what they might lose and would need to make up.....

Certainly nothing is built yet, so we'll see what happens. And yes, I did ask that already in this thread, nobody has come forth with an answer so I suppose it's not publicly available?

 

[bleedblue94]

Like what? Islanders played at Barclays for how long? As much as I loved the commute it was not an NHL arena.

But there was a plan while they were at Barclays.

The issues of yotes ownership and relations to the community in which they operate continues to stand out.

 

[bleedblue94]

where's the infrastructure to bring professional ie NHL Hockey.... to Hartford as a prime example, bleed..... instead of the Rangers adopting that territory by default after the transfer to Carolina by the Whalers, granted that there's new ownership of the Hurricanes

Who is talking about Hartford? Ha

Houston is the obvious and silent one that lurks. Ryan Smith will pay an expansion fee. He isn't getting the coyotes. He is there as a public threat to Arizona politicians. I firmly believe if the yotes relocate Houston is very much lurking, and it would allow TF to avoid the expansion fee.

And before someone references the claim that AM turned down a billion dollars for the yotes, if that is true that is based on the idea of another owner using the yotes to build their own district project. The team is absolutely being used as an angle for owners to build an income complex, beyond that I doubt the yotes matter at all. They are the gateway to a bigger development and if they could build that development without the yotes I'm sure they would.

As an Islanders fan, I was absolutely terrified about the arena deal for UBS Arena falling apart... even after watching the construction cam every single day. And I finally relaxed when the puck dropped for the second period.





Yeah, there's no damage to be done playing 3-4 years in a temp venue with a permanent home that hasn't already been done going 15 years of being a total cluster with the future of the franchise always in doubt.

Knowing there's light at the end of the tunnel is infinitely better than wondering if that's an oncoming train.

But there isn't anything done yet. And even if they win the auction it's not done. That's my point. There is so much room still to win the auction and have hold-ups or other obstacles that stall this or otherwise impact it. For all the complaining about Barclay, comparing Barclay to mullet is disingenuous.

 

[bleedblue94]

So…. I guess it’s clearly okay for you to laugh at one of my posts where I was answering someone’s basic question…… and I’m not allowed to express what I think is a concept that’s not based in modern reality.

Frankly speaking it never bothered me at all and I actually get a chuckle occasionally out of people thinking it gets under my skin in some way.

That said… here’s why you got a chuckle from me.

The days of just putting up an arena all by itself and thinking any pro sports team will survive on that alone are long gone. If Alex Meruelo wants to build an entertainment district to go along with the arena then so be it.

And that goes for any pro sports team in any market….. anywhere.

Wait so you're going out of your way to criticize me and complain about something I did, BUT it didn't bother you? Come on, that's like someone post on Facebook to tell someone that what they said didn't bother them but...

That said... Who bashed him or criticized him for needing the district to help fund the team? It's obvious that is the way forward in pro sports, BUT there is a huge distinction between an owner building a district to help fund and support a team vs an owner using a team to angle into building his development district for it's own profits. I have virtually no doubt that once his district is built (whenever it is) that team will be up for sale within 5-7 years as he keeps the district, or attempts to. The team is a means to an end. That is one of the things that bothers me in this whole thing.

 

[TheLegend]

Wait so you're going out of your way to criticize me and complain about something I did, BUT it didn't bother you? Come on, that's like someone post on Facebook to tell someone that what they said didn't bother them but...

I'm pointing out that you seemed to enjoy mocking things, but had a problem when it came back at you.

That said... Who bashed him or criticized him for needing the district to help fund the team? It's obvious that is the way forward in pro sports, BUT there is a huge distinction between an owner building a district to help fund and support a team vs an owner using a team to angle into building his development district for it's own profits. I have virtually no doubt that once his district is built (whenever it is) that team will be up for sale within 5-7 years as he keeps the district, or attempts to. The team is a means to an end. That is one of the things that bothers me in this whole thing.

There's a narrative running around that the Coyotes are going to ask for tax breaks. Yet there is zero evidence they are, and the Coyotes themselves are on the record they aren't asking for a GPLET. Avoiding a public referendum is paramount here. A GPLET would more than likely draw one.

They have said they might look at the theme park district concept but as the law stands right now it would involve needing approval of the city and county on top of the state. Every step open to a public referendum.

And now you want to claim he's going to build this district with the intent to sell the team once it's built. And I won't say it's right or wrong...... I'll just point to the fact that Alex Meruelo has never sold an asset he's acquired....... ever.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

And now you want to claim he's going to build this district with the intent to sell the team once it's built.

And who cares if he does?

 

[awfulwaffle]

Certainly nothing is built yet, so we'll see what happens. And yes, I did ask that already in this thread, nobody has come forth with an answer so I suppose it's not publicly available?

I gave you the answer, a % of the revenue from the events. You went straight to "so Phoenix is going to lose money because Footprint will lose events", you didn't try to gather more precise information on the amount that they are getting. And you don't know the economic impact that this new district will have on the City of Phoenix.

Keep in mind, Footprint is simply that, just an arena. AM is building residential and commercial on top of just an arena.

But since you want everything handed to you on a silver platter:

https://www.phoenix.gov/piosite/Documents/Arena/PublicMeeting_FAQ_v4.pdf

See question 6.

 

[Joe from Maine]

The Scottsdale mayor just walked back his criticism of the project. Now says he is ok with it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale-breaking/2024/04/10/scottsdale-mayor-david-ortega-walks-back-criticism-of-coyotes-project/73268369007/&ved=2ahUKEwjE5fHW6reFAxU3g4QIHY3PCYQQxfQBKAB6BAgZEAE&usg=AOvVaw3JDTn4T4DQRR1I20Mh_KB-

 

[LPHabsFan]

Sources: NHL, Arizona Coyotes working on agreement to sell and relocate to Salt Lake City

A sale could include an agreement to ‘reactivate’ the Coyotes as a future expansion franchise.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

The second path involves Meruelo selling control of the franchise in a multi-layered process that would include Smith Entertainment Group paying north of $1.2 billion, part of which is a relocation fee that would be distributed to league owners.

An announcement on a sale and relocation could come as soon as April 18, the day after the Coyotes’ final regular season home game at the 4,600-seat Mullett Arena on the campus of Arizona State University.

Sources briefed on the ongoing discussions indicated Meruelo could receive up to $1 billion for the Coyotes. The exact figures of the proposed transaction are speculated and all details and mechanics of a proposed deal remain fluid.

No we that AM actually walks away with 1 billion. He's barely getting anything.

Perhaps the answer is that Meruelo intends to win the June 27 land auction and develop that sports and entertainment district in the hopes of luring the NHL back to Arizona with a future expansion franchise. Sources said part of the agreement to sell now could include language that would allow Meruelo to ‘reactivate’ the Coyotes franchise in future years, including name and trademarks, if a new arena is built and terms and conditions of the agreement with the NHL are met.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The Scottsdale mayor just walked back his criticism of the project. Now says he is ok with it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale-breaking/2024/04/10/scottsdale-mayor-david-ortega-walks-back-criticism-of-coyotes-project/73268369007/&ved=2ahUKEwjE5fHW6reFAxU3g4QIHY3PCYQQxfQBKAB6BAgZEAE&usg=AOvVaw3JDTn4T4DQRR1I20Mh_KB-

That's not what he did at all.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

That's not what he did at all.

Scottsdale Mayor David Ortega now says he's OK with the Arizona Coyotes' plan to build an arena in northeast Phoenix near his city as long it's designed to prevent traffic issues in Scottsdale.

That's exactly what he said. Just needed more context.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

That's exactly what he said. Just needed more context.

Yes, and that will require a change to the plans that were presented to him initially.

He's okay with it IF a solution is found. It's contingent on his concern being resolved. He's not okay with the plan as was.

 

[GKJ]

 

[cbcwpg]

Sources said part of the agreement to sell now could include language that would allow Meruelo to ‘reactivate’ the Coyotes franchise in future years, including name and trademarks, if a new arena is built and terms and conditions of the agreement with the NHL are met.

**

JMO, but if the Coyotes do go to Salt Lake, and Phoenix "reactivates" the franchise at some future date.... they should burn all ties to the existing franchise. New arena, new colors, new name, new everything.

 

[GKJ]

Sources said part of the agreement to sell now could include language that would allow Meruelo to ‘reactivate’ the Coyotes franchise in future years, including name and trademarks, if a new arena is built and terms and conditions of the agreement with the NHL are met.

**

JMO, but if the Coyotes do go to Salt Lake, and Phoenix "reactivates" the franchise at some future date.... they should burn all ties to the existing franchise. New arena, new colors, new name, new everything.

I would do the same, though Coyotes is a good name.