CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[StreetHawk]

FWIW, the Hornets arena didn't break ground until 2003. The old Charlotte Coliseum held over 20k for hockey.

That being said, 25-30 years ago Charlotte really wasn't a big enough market to host both NBA and NHL. Today, it's close to that point.

But, once an arena is built that is basketball specific, it locks out the NHL.

Karmanos and the Whalers just made the deadline before construction began in Raleigh to get it changed, otherwise that's a basketball specific arena. Who knows if Charlotte builds their current arena to accommodate an NHL team if Raleigh didn't have the Canes. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. It does cost more.

 

[JKG33]

Outside of ATL/Hou, most probably don't do much for the NHL. Utah, obviously in the mix now with their owner wanting a team.

But, even the NBA would rather be in SEA over OKC, Van over Memphis, not be in NO.

And also the reality is that most of the NBA only cities their arenas are built basketball specific. So, only aorund 13K or so of good seats for hockey.

Genuinely curious as I don't follow the NBA at all, why aren't they back in VAN if they want to be? What's stopping them? From what I understand OKC has been a success, and Seattle is a likely expansion/relocation option now that they have an arena?

From your list above, I think the NHL would especially love to get into Atlanta, Houston, San Diego. And also Kansas and Milwaukee, along with a 2nd Toronto team.

 

[red devil]

 

[Daximus]

Feel free to show me the economic report that the PA has done to show how much money they are losing by playing at Mullet, versus what they might be making in SLC. Otherwise, their arguments have no merit.

The only players I might be concerned about with their opinion is that of the home team themselves. Otherwise, they can go yell at the clouds.

Doesn't take a rocket accountant to figure out that there is more money to be made in a larger arena provided you have the fans to fill it.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Feel free to show me the economic report that the PA has done to show how much money they are losing by playing at Mullet, versus what they might be making in SLC. Otherwise, their arguments have no merit.

The only players I might be concerned about with their opinion is that of the home team themselves. Otherwise, they can go yell at the clouds.

It's not just about the money. It's about quality of the arena, etc. You may have want to dismiss all of these concerns because you're a fan and not a stakeholder, but clearly the NHL has to listen to player complaints. It's about having a standard for NHL players and the league. Mullet standing out like a sore thumb, in a situation that isn't even temporary, is bad business and NHL players shouldn't be expected to sit in it indefinitely.

 

[Roadrage]

Yep… Theme Park District is a CFD on steroids. It it isn’t a tax “break” though.

I’d like to see how they handle the property tax issue.


Hey….. those guys get around ya know.

Wouldn't a request to have Theme Park District require an actual Theme Park?

 

[KevFu]

The team's CEO said that if they lose the aunction they have to look at relocation.

NHL can NOT interfere with the owner/team ability to bid for that land and force the owner out. That would be illegal per state/federal laws.

The leak about the schedule -- as well as all the rumors flying around about Salt Lake, Atlanta, Houston wanting hockey -- would seems to indicate that the NHL COULD BE orchestrating a common sense solution for the Coyotes amid an expansion.

Instead of PHX waiting 3-5 years for a new arena and SLC waiting 3-5 years for an expansion roster, you have PHX wait 3-5 years on both arena and expansion roster; and SLC play in the Delta Center. Instead of Miller buying an expansion team, he buys the Coyotes with the NHL promising that the Coyotes WILL return if the land purchase and arena construction happens in PHX.


We all knew this was a possibility, but assumed it wouldn't happen because it makes too much sense and these are billionaires who usually care more about the ME part than the Common Sense part.

But some of those US markets, the NHL would never go into.
What they have that the NHL does not:
NFL - GB, NO, Indy, Jax, ATL, BAL, HOU, Cin, Cle, KC
NBA - Por, Sac, OKC, NO, Mem, Utah, Cha, ORL, ATL, Cle, Mil, Ind, SA, Hou
MLB - Oak, SD, Hou, Mil, Cle, Cin, KC, ATL, BAL, (extra Chi team),

NHL has teams in the same state, like in Carolina, StL, TB, Nash, Columbus for example vs in Charlotte, KC, Memphis, Orlando, Cleveland/Cincy. And I'm calling SJ equal to SF.

Even so, the NHL also has one more NY team than anyone else can get. The other leagues can't go to OTT, EDM, CGY, QC or a second team in Ontario. The NHL SHOULD be up 4 to 6 on the other three leagues because of that.

Off that list, the NHL could go to SLC, HOU, ATL, SD, PORT, SAC, OKC, SA. But there's also Austin, Virginia Beach, Hartford, Providence, Louisville, Birmingham, Riverside/San Bernandino and probably a couple others who have no teams (outside MLS) and "getting there first" can be a smart idea.

There's plenty of options on the table. You're really never going to be short on cities for teams.

 

[awfulwaffle]

You need an economic report to understand that you make more money when you have 14,000 tickets to sell per game instead of 4,000?

Don't really need one no, but how much money are the players actually losing? XG has even admitted that there have been more games in a shorter time period where they have made over $1M per game than they were making at GRA. The tickets were cheaper at GRA than they are at Mullet.

So yes, I wouldn't mind seeing the revenue generated at Mullet compared to GRA.......

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Don't really need one no, but how much money are the players actually losing? XG has even admitted that there have been more games in a shorter time period where they have made over $1M per game than they were making at GRA. The tickets were cheaper at GRA than they are at Mullet.

So yes, I wouldn't mind seeing the revenue generated at Mullet compared to GRA.......

Comparing Mullett to GRA is irrelevant at this point, it's about the loss of potential revenue of playing at Mullett vs. playing in SLC.

 

[JKG33]

Don't really need one no, but how much money are the players actually losing? XG has even admitted that there have been more games in a shorter time period where they have made over $1M per game than they were making at GRA. The tickets were cheaper at GRA than they are at Mullet.

So yes, I wouldn't mind seeing the revenue generated at Mullet compared to GRA.......

I don't think it's just about money. The players don't want to get to the top of their profession just to be shoehorned in to a minor league arena, as a home or away team

 

[TheLegend]

Yes, and that will require a change to the plans that were presented to him initially.

He's okay with it IF a solution is found. It's contingent on his concern being resolved. He's not okay with the plan as was.

The changes were already there.

His first statement he admits to meeting with the AZ land department and making certain demands..... so they did that. It's all in the auction documentation.

Ortega made a grandstand statement and didn't think that people would actually READ what the auction contained. And It's quite possible he got some pushback from locals who are also Coyotes fans and make up a large chunk of the fanbase. Including a few who might have told him if he if he wanted their support for re-election this fall he'd better tone down the rhetoric.

 

[TheLegend]

You need an economic report to understand that you make more money when you have 14,000 tickets to sell per game instead of 4,000?

Except the Coyotes are making more now ticket wise than they did the last season in Glendale.

It isn't the number of seats... it's the total cash you get for those seats.

 

[TheLegend]

Doesn't take a rocket accountant to figure out that there is more money to be made in a larger arena provided you have the fans to fill it.

Potential yes.... but reality is so far the Coyotes have not cost the league in ticket sales being at Mullett.

 

[StreetHawk]

Genuinely curious as I don't follow the NBA at all, why aren't they back in VAN if they want to be? What's stopping them? From what I understand OKC has been a success, and Seattle is a likely expansion/relocation option now that they have an arena?

From your list above, I think the NHL would especially love to get into Atlanta, Houston, San Diego. And also Kansas and Milwaukee, along with a 2nd Toronto team.

I mean, that the NBA would rather not have seen the relocations from SEA and Van to OKC and Memphis. Or even Charlotte to NO.

 

[TheLegend]

Comparing Mullett to GRA is irrelevant at this point, it's about the loss of potential revenue of playing at Mullett vs. playing in SLC.

There's an optics element here that you're totally ignoring.

"Penny wise and pound foolish" is the adage that comes to mind.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Genuinely curious as I don't follow the NBA at all, why aren't they back in VAN if they want to be? What's stopping them? From what I understand OKC has been a success, and Seattle is a likely expansion/relocation option now that they have an arena?

From your list above, I think the NHL would especially love to get into Atlanta, Houston, San Diego. And also Kansas and Milwaukee, along with a 2nd Toronto team.

ownership of Rogers Arena aka Orca Bay now Canucks Sports and Entertainment is why the Grizzlies landed in Memphis..... three things that need to happen just like Smith in SLC.... U need a team/arena and approval from the league if it's an existing franchise hence why relocation is the last resort option.

 

[Primary Assist]

That would be a bummer for Coyotes fans if the team relocated to Salt Lake with the expectation that Arizona will get another franchise.

The fans have grown attached to the players and the franchise and would then be expected to just embrace a new team they have no connection to outside of geographic proximity. There's also concern that a hypothetical new team would be a flight risk even if precautionary measures were taken after this big saga.

My heart goes out to Coyotes fans. Truly a passionate and devoted bunch. For their sake I hope the team stays, but despite some of the mental gymnastics I've seen from some die-hards it seems likely that the league has all sorts of contingency plans in place in case they do move on

 

[IU Hawks fan]

There's an optics element here that you're totally ignoring.

"Penny wise and pound foolish" is the adage that comes to mind.

The optics of playing 5 years in a 4,000 seat college rink are awful. You're ignoring the opportunity cost.

I want a team long term in the Valley. It's a place very close to my heart, been visiting for 20 years and hope to one day be a snowbird. For the good of the future of the franchise and the league, I think it's best to pause for a few seasons.

 

[JKG33]

I mean, that the NBA would rather not have seen the relocations from SEA and Van to OKC and Memphis. Or even Charlotte to NO.

This was NO's 2nd time with a team in a relatively short time no? What happened there?

ownership of Rogers Arena aka Orca Bay now Canucks Sports and Entertainment is why the Grizzlies landed in Memphis..... three things that need to happen just like Smith in SLC.... U need a team/arena and approval from the league if it's an existing franchise hence why relocation is the last resort option.

If the NBA would be as popular as some of you suggest in VAN (not trying to come off as snarky, I genuinely don't know as I don't follow basketball), why wouldn't the Canucks want to copy what MLSE has with the Leafs/Raptors? That seems like a massive success financially

 

[Roadrage]

Genuinely curious as I don't follow the NBA at all, why aren't they back in VAN if they want to be? What's stopping them? From what I understand OKC has been a success, and Seattle is a likely expansion/relocation option now that they have an arena?

My guess would be a billionaire owner willing to pay over 4 billion US$ if and when a team were up for sale (with the league also allowing it to relocate in the first place) and maybe more for an as yet announced expansion franchise (Next 2 will be most likely be Seattle and Las Vegas anyways).

 

[hammer42]

This Hail Mary attempt is not going to work for the coyotes because the city of Scottsdale dose not want the coyotes arena built there most likely because the coyotes have reputation for not being able to pay there bills & even if they win the bid which highly unlikely they most likely will be able to get the public funds & permits to get the arena built since they are not wanted in Scottsdale so my opinion the coyotes will be playing in either Salt Lake City or Houston next year .

 

[TheLegend]

Wouldn't a request to have Theme Park District require an actual Theme Park?

The law was originally crafted to help the MLB Diamondbacks. Chase Field is owned by Maricopa County and the stadium needs repairs running in the 9 digits. Team is willing to put some money into it but the county is not. So this was going to help augment that.

 

[JKG33]

My guess would be a billionaire owner willing to pay over 4 billion US$ if and when a team were up for sale (with the league also allowing it to relocate in the first place) and maybe more for an as yet announced expansion franchise (Next 2 will be most likely be Seattle and Las Vegas anyways).

I feel like if the NBA wanted a team in Vancouver that badly, they'd price it at a point make it happen much like the NHL did with Vegas and seems willing to do for Houston

 

[IU Hawks fan]

This Hail Mary attempt is not going to work for the coyotes because the city of Scottsdale dose not want the coyotes arena built there most likely because the coyotes have reputation for not being able to pay there bills & even if they win the bid which highly unlikely they most likely will be able to get the public funds & permits to get the arena built since they are not wanted in Scottsdale so my opinion the coyotes will be playing in either Salt Lake City or Houston next year .

The land isn't even in Scottsdale.

 

[TheLegend]

The optics of playing 5 years in a 4,000 college rink are awful. You're ignoring the opportunity cost.

I want a team long term in the Valley. It's a place very closet to my heart, been visiting for 20 years and hope to one day be a snowbird. For the good of the future of the franchise and the league, I think it's best to pause for a few seasons.

To you maybe.... not to Coyotes fans.

If the auction fails, yes.... definitely move the team. But to rip a team out right before it's owner has the opportunity to right a 20 year wrong won't be accepted very well. Not after the league has spent all that time telling the fans as long as there's an owner willing to keep the team in Arizona they have the leagues support.