CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

[CHRDANHUTCH]

This was NO's 2nd time with a team in a relatively short time no? What happened there?

If the NBA would be as popular as some of you suggest in VAN (not trying to come off as snarky, I genuinely don't know as I don't follow basketball), why wouldn't the Canucks want to copy what MLSE has with the Leafs/Raptors? That seems like a massive success financially

Financially it doesn't make sense.... look at Spurs Sports recently..... all they have now is the Spurs and the affiliate in Austin... they had a WNBA/AHL team that were sold and transferred to Vegas.... the Knights actually bought the Rampage and flipped them to Henderson.... even MLSE isn't solely in Toronto.... yes the Leads and Raptors share an arena.... but their affiliates do not... see what EDM/WPG/CGY have done with junior/pro/NHL..... THE Marlies are across town and the Raptors affiliate is in Missisauga, hence the code Raptors 905

 

[hangman005]

This Hail Mary attempt is not going to work for the coyotes because the city of Scottsdale dose not want the coyotes arena built there most likely because the coyotes have reputation for not being able to pay there bills & even if they win the bid which highly unlikely they most likely will be able to get the public funds & permits to get the arena built since they are not wanted in Scottsdale so my opinion the coyotes will be playing in either Salt Lake City or Houston next year .

Why would they be highly unlikely to win the bid, when most auctions are solo bidders? Further to that what the city of Scottsdale wants is largely irrelevant, the land isn't in Scottsdale.

 

[StreetHawk]

My guess would be a billionaire owner willing to pay over 4 billion US$ if and when a team were up for sale (with the league also allowing it to relocate in the first place) and maybe more for an as yet announced expansion franchise (Next 2 will be most likely be Seattle and Las Vegas anyways).

The Canucks owner isn't that wealthy to afford $4 billion USD. Would end up being like the Griffiths family that over extended themselves building their arena privately. Ended up taking on a partner and selling the club/arena to them later.

 

[sneakytitz]

Except the Coyotes are making more now ticket wise than they did the last season in Glendale.

It isn't the number of seats... it's the total cash you get for those seats.

The last season in Glendale when they averaged 11,000 per game?

Basic math tells us that SLC could charge HALF what Arizona currently is per ticket and still come out 65% ahead.

 

[KevFu]

Genuinely curious as I don't follow the NBA at all, why aren't they back in VAN if they want to be? What's stopping them? From what I understand OKC has been a success, and Seattle is a likely expansion/relocation option now that they have an arena?

From your list above, I think the NHL would especially love to get into Atlanta, Houston, San Diego. And also Kansas and Milwaukee, along with a 2nd Toronto team.

I don't follow the NBA that closely at all either, but from what I can tell during my time near the Sacramento Kings near relocation debacle, it really boils down to the NBA owners having a lucrative product and not seeing a need for drastic change, even if it would be just as, if not more lucrative. They don't have a NEED to expand, so they don't.

There's absolutely nothing stopping the NBA from expanding at any given time. They just need a reason to get together and talk it over.

If there was a dude with $20b waiving a check book at them, then maybe they act. The only reason they're talking now is because COVID made everyone talk about it.

 

[JKG33]

Financially it doesn't make sense.... look at Spurs Sports recently..... all they have now is the Spurs and the affiliate in Austin... they had a WNBA/AHL team that were sold and transferred to Vegas.... the Knights actually bought the Rampage and flipped them to Henderson.... even MLSE isn't solely in Toronto.... yes the Leads and Raptors share an arena.... but their affiliates do not... see what EDM/WPG/CGY have done with junior/pro/NHL..... THE Marlies are across town and the Raptors affiliate is in Missisauga, hence the code Raptors 905

Minor league teams are financially inconsequential when cinpared to owning both an NHL and NBA team. Its more for logistical reasons than it is a money maker. Winnipeg can't even give tickets away for the Moose to fill the barn yet I don't see that team going anywhere, because of all the pluses of having an AHL team in the same facilities.

Besides, don't the Canucks already own their AHL team anyway?

 

[gstommylee]

The leak about the schedule -- as well as all the rumors flying around about Salt Lake, Atlanta, Houston wanting hockey -- would seems to indicate that the NHL COULD BE orchestrating a common sense solution for the Coyotes amid an expansion.

Instead of PHX waiting 3-5 years for a new arena and SLC waiting 3-5 years for an expansion roster, you have PHX wait 3-5 years on both arena and expansion roster; and SLC play in the Delta Center. Instead of Miller buying an expansion team, he buys the Coyotes with the NHL promising that the Coyotes WILL return if the land purchase and arena construction happens in PHX.


We all knew this was a possibility, but assumed it wouldn't happen because it makes too much sense and these are billionaires who usually care more about the ME part than the Common Sense part.




Even so, the NHL also has one more NY team than anyone else can get. The other leagues can't go to OTT, EDM, CGY, QC or a second team in Ontario. The NHL SHOULD be up 4 to 6 on the other three leagues because of that.

Off that list, the NHL could go to SLC, HOU, ATL, SD, PORT, SAC, OKC, SA. But there's also Austin, Virginia Beach, Hartford, Providence, Louisville, Birmingham, Riverside/San Bernandino and probably a couple others who have no teams (outside MLS) and "getting there first" can be a smart idea.

There's plenty of options on the table. You're really never going to be short on cities for teams.

The idea of there being 2 schedules isn't a new idea. The NHL done it before when the team almost moved to Seattle a deacde ago. What's purely speculation is everything else that the team is being sold and moved and arizona will get a expansion team. That's pure speculation by the dailyfaceoff guy. The same guy that said that the coyotes can't sign anyone for next season just before they actually signed someone.

 

[Tawnos]

The idea of there being 2 schedules isn't a new idea. The NHL done it before when the team almost moved to Seattle a deacde ago. What's purely speculation is everything else that the team is being sold and moved and arizona will get a expansion team. That's pure speculation by the dailyfaceoff guy. The same guy that said that the coyotes can't sign anyone for next season just before they actually signed someone.

He says in the article that it’s what sources are telling him could happen. It’s not pure speculation. Unless he’s making the sources up, he’s reporting what’s been told to him.

I’m often first in line to be critical of Seravelli, but boiling this report down to pure speculation misrepresents what he said in the article.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Minor league teams are financially inconsequential when cinpared to owning both an NHL and NBA team. Its more for logistical reasons than it is a money maker. Winnipeg can't even give tickets away for the Moose to fill the barn yet I don't see that team going anywhere, because of all the pluses of having an AHL team in the same facilities.

Besides, don't the Canucks already own their AHL team anyway?

then why is the AHL 2/3RDS owned and operated by the NHL Ownerships..... which has been the operational standard since 2015....... even Winnipeg transferred their affiliate when they acquired the franchise from Atlanta.... the other issue is date availability especially if the arena has outside events other than the NBA/NHL.... as for the Abbotsford Canucks, it was the city that ended Calgary's tenure and the market sat for a decade.... CSE picked Utica at that time.....

 

[TheLegend]

The last season in Glendale when they averaged 11,000 per game?

Basic math tells us that SLC could charge HALF what Arizona currently is per ticket and still come out 65% ahead.

At what cost.....??

They obviously want the Arizona market bad. OR they wouldn't have done what they did for the last 20 years.

I'm already seeing long term fans (I'm talking ones who have been through this entire saga) saying if the league pulls the plug before the auction they are done with the NHL... forever.

 

[Tawnos]

At what cost.....??

They obviously want the Arizona market bad. OR they wouldn't have done what they did for the last 20 years.

I'm already seeing long term fans (I'm talking ones who have been through this entire saga) saying if the league pulls the plug before the auction they are done with the NHL... forever.

That might be true for a few, but most of them would come back to a new team even if they say they wouldn’t now. People make promises like that all the time and don’t stick to them in the end.

 

[TheLegend]

He says in the article that it’s what sources are telling him could happen. It’s not pure speculation. Unless he’s making the sources up, he’s reporting what’s been told to him.

I’m often first in line to be critical of Seravelli, but boiling this report down to pure speculation misrepresents what he said in the article.

Semantics.

While Seravalli isn't doing the actual speculating here. His sources are. No matter how you want to frame it it's still speculation.

Seravalli puts it out because 1) It gets him clicks, and 2) if it turns out wrong he has the out that he was reporting what his sources told him.

 

[GKJ]

A lot of this talk about how they’re not losing money, or making as much as they should as a result (same thing), this would not be going on if the owners in any way thought that was true.

 

[TheLegend]

That might be true for a few, but most of them would come back to a new team even if they say they wouldn’t now. People make promises like that all the time and don’t stick to them in the end.

Not the same.

It's one thing for an owner to bail out.... it's another for the league itself to bail.

Four years from now, or twelve.... it won't matter.

Ripping the team out pre-auction is the nuclear option.

 

[JKG33]

then why is the AHL 2/3RDS owned and operated by the NHL Ownerships..... which has been the operational standard since 2015....... even Winnipeg transferred their affiliate when they acquired the franchise from Atlanta.... the other issue is date availability especially if the arena has outside events other than the NBA/NHL.... as for the Abbotsford Canucks, it was the city that ended Calgary's tenure and the market sat for a decade.... CSE picked Utica at that time.....

I'll be honest man I have no idea what you're even arguing, or it's relevance to an NBA team in Vancouver.

We seem to be in agreement that an NHL team is better off owning their AHL affiliate, no?

 

[StreetHawk]

The land isn't even in Scottsdale.

Which is surprising as the land is in Phoenix, just over the border between the 2. Seems odd given the reno that was completed a few years ago for the Suns. Though that only extended their lease from 2022 from 2037 (from what another poster mentioned). So, maybe a decade away from another discussion about Footprint.

 

[gstommylee]

He says in the article that it’s what sources are telling him could happen. It’s not pure speculation. Unless he’s making the sources up, he’s reporting what’s been told to him.

I’m often first in line to be critical of Seravelli, but boiling this report down to pure speculation misrepresents what he said in the article.

He has been wrong beore like the idea that the team can't sign anyone for next season.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The leak about the schedule -- as well as all the rumors flying around about Salt Lake, Atlanta, Houston wanting hockey -- would seems to indicate that the NHL COULD BE orchestrating a common sense solution for the Coyotes amid an expansion.

Instead of PHX waiting 3-5 years for a new arena and SLC waiting 3-5 years for an expansion roster, you have PHX wait 3-5 years on both arena and expansion roster; and SLC play in the Delta Center. Instead of Miller buying an expansion team, he buys the Coyotes with the NHL promising that the Coyotes WILL return if the land purchase and arena construction happens in PHX.


We all knew this was a possibility, but assumed it wouldn't happen because it makes too much sense and these are billionaires who usually care more about the ME part than the Common Sense part.




Even so, the NHL also has one more NY team than anyone else can get. The other leagues can't go to OTT, EDM, CGY, QC or a second team in Ontario. The NHL SHOULD be up 4 to 6 on the other three leagues because of that.

Off that list, the NHL could go to SLC, HOU, ATL, SD, PORT, SAC, OKC, SA. But there's also Austin, Virginia Beach, Hartford, Providence, Louisville, Birmingham, Riverside/San Bernandino and probably a couple others who have no teams (outside MLS) and "getting there first" can be a smart idea.

There's plenty of options on the table. You're really never going to be short on cities for teams.

You need to leave some cities available for moving teams.

 

[GKJ]

I think we’re beyond disputing Frank or his sources’ motives or credibility on this.

 

[LPHabsFan]

A lot of this talk about how they’re not losing money, or making as much as they should as a result (same thing), this would not be going on if the owners in any way thought that was true.

Just to clarify, nobody is saying that they're not losing money. People are saying, and it makes sense when you look at things mathematically, that they are making more at Mullet than they were in Glendale.

Saying that is a far cry from saying they're profitable.

 

[KevFu]

The idea of there being 2 schedules isn't a new idea. The NHL done it before when the team almost moved to Seattle a deacde ago. What's purely speculation is everything else that the team is being sold and moved and arizona will get a expansion team.

He says in the article that it’s what sources are telling him could happen. It’s not pure speculation. Unless he’s making the sources up, he’s reporting what’s been told to him

HA. I thought tommy meant MY speculation!

The thing is, the expansion piece is really the only way to "tie it together."

AM is not behaving like a guy who's DONE with owning a team in Phoenix, actively chasing the land deal now, and since the first rumors of Coyotes to Salt Lake got any traction. The whole black ops "NHL forcing AM to sell against his will" thing.

The NHL seems like they're "done" with letting the Coyotes play in Mullett.

It makes no sense for the NHL to strip the team from an owner who's willing to do whatever it takes to make NHL hockey in a top 10 market work even with not having an accessible NHL arena in their history.

What DOES make sense is pairing TWO owners who have to wait 3-5 years -- one with a roster and no arena, and one with an arena and no roster -- into one complete franchise for the next 3-5 years until you have two complete franchises.

 

[sneakytitz]

I'm already seeing long term fans (I'm talking ones who have been through this entire saga) saying if the league pulls the plug before the auction they are done with the NHL... forever.

Yes, we are at step/stage 3 of 7.

You see the same in all sports, especially after a tough loss to end the season. "I'm done with this team! They should have never done X Y Z or they should have done 1 2 3!" But you know what, they always come back (step/stage 7 of 7).

 

[gstommylee]

HA. I thought tommy meant MY speculation!

The thing is, the expansion piece is really the only way to "tie it together."

AM is not behaving like a guy who's DONE with owning a team in Phoenix, actively chasing the land deal now, and since the first rumors of Coyotes to Salt Lake got any traction. The whole black ops "NHL forcing AM to sell against his will" thing.

The NHL seems like they're "done" with letting the Coyotes play in Mullett.

It makes no sense for the NHL to strip the team from an owner who's willing to do whatever it takes to make NHL hockey in a top 10 market work even with not having an accessible NHL arena in their history.

What DOES make sense is pairing TWO owners who have to wait 3-5 years -- one with a roster and no arena, and one with an arena and no roster -- into one complete franchise for the next 3-5 years until you have two complete franchises.

Again its speculation that the team is gone no matter what happens june 27th. The NHL HAS TO wait and see what happens then but prepare in case it comes out that the owner didn't win the aunction.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes, we are at step/stage 3 of 7.

You see the same in all sports, especially after a tough loss to end the season. "I'm done with this team! They should have never done X Y Z or they should have done 1 2 3!" But you know what, they always come back (step/stage 7 of 7).

You're looking at it from the standpoint that your team's owner didn't care from day one and that the league did everything they could.

People here are looking at this as if the league itself doesn't care. That's a whole different level of betrayal from a fan's point of view.

 

[sneakytitz]

You're looking at it from the standpoint that your team's owner didn't care from day one and that the league did everything they could.

People here are looking at this as if the league itself doesn't care. That's a whole different level of betrayal from a fan's point of view.

You do realize you're talking to a Thrashers fan right? That we are well aware that Arizona got spared by the league so we could be sacrificed? Guess when that betrayal ends? When Atlanta is announced as 33rd or 34th. Winning and success, even if that means just having a team, cures a lot of ails.