CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheLegend]

Looks like Morgan, in an attempt to provide content/hope to the fanbase, might have hurt the so-called deal (and maybe his reputation too) not a wise-move, wether it's coming from him or his source, to report this...

Nothing Morgan has done is going to hurt "the deal", whatever it is.

It'll be resolved (one way or another) in the next three months.

What Morgan has attempted to do is tell everyone it's a process with tons of moving pieces and most of the "reporting" out there has been inaccurate (and they have been to a degree)

He has recommended people to follow Richard Rodier's comments to have an idea of what the league's thought processes could be.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm surprised this isn't being talked about more, especially with this post on the main boards that indicates the Yotes land deal wasn't even discussed in the Executive Session....

Tony Cani made a presumptive error in that tweet.

The state rep never told him Craig Morgan things could be done behind the scenes. Morgan did add his own opinion on top of it based on his intimate experience with three different city councils in Phoenix Metro it could happen.

I'll link the podcast where he actually said what he said if need be. I watched it and that's how I interpreted it then.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Tony Cani made a presumptive error in that tweet.

The state rep never told him Craig Morgan things could be done behind the scenes. Craig Morgan did add his own opinion on top of it based on his intimate experience with three different city councils in Phoenix Metro it could happen.

I'll link the podcast where he actually said what he said if need be.

I was referring more to section of the Cani twitter thread which made mention that a Pipeline lawsuit was the focus of the Ex Session & the land sale wasn't discussed at all. That's pretty significant if Cani is accurate.

 

[TheLegend]

I was referring more to section of the Cani twitter thread which made mention that a Pipeline lawsuit was the focus of the Ex Session & the land sale wasn't discussed at all. That's pretty significant if Cani is accurate.

Okay..... I don't follow him regularly and haven't seen everything he's said.

I did interact with him briefly today though on something else. I was looking at the TED timeline as a comparison to the where we are with the land sale and he didn't think it could be compared because the current process is much more complex.

I mentioned they had talked to at least one Phoenix city councilman early on and suggested they might be laying the groundwork in the case the land sale goes through. He said he'd noticed that Meruelo has made donations to the PACs of multiple Phoenix council members. Didn't say who or how much was involved but noted the irony of them once being on the opposite side and their attorneys accusing Phoenix of not playing fairly.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Said it once and I’ll say it again. Cannot wait for the Netflix docudrama of this entire ordeal to come out..

 

[dj4aces]

Said it once and I’ll say it again. Cannot wait for the Netflix docudrama of this entire ordeal to come out..

But is the world ready for yet another Netflix series that'll be canceled before its finished? I mean, this one is *at least* 147 parts...

 

[TheLegend]

But is the world ready for yet another Netflix series that'll be canceled before its finished? I mean, this one is *at least* 147 parts...

You never watched The Walking Dead series??

 

[Reaser]

You never watched The Walking Dead series??

I think it was season 3'ish when I read an article with them saying they could just keep doing seasons forever -- that the show doesn't ever have to end. That's when I stopped watching since I knew questions I had would never get answered with the point of the show/series being "to make another season."

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Said it once and I’ll say it again. Cannot wait for the Netflix docudrama of this entire ordeal to come out..

I'll say once again I actually started planning on writing a book on this topic (sportswriter by trade, in case anyone didn't know), and almost immediately gave up, probably like every other mildly interested sportswriter who is interested in this saga.

There is no single person with the expertise to write such a project. I wasn't even formally involved in the business when I made my attempt at outlining it.

It's impossible to write a book when you don't know the ending. And you'll need decades and decades of expertise to even attempt to write it. I was confident in my knowledge at the time (2014-ish), but I've since fallen off, and would have no base to write about events post 2016, and trying to research it would be a full-time job, with very little benefit to the final product.

If there are any wrestling fans out there, I always compare it to demands from people to Bryan Alverez to write "Death of TNA" after his (quite good) "Death of WCW" - It was a saga that stretched on for so long, without any concrete ending, it was a pointless endeavour.

PS - If you're interested in the business of sports, I can't recommend Death of WCW enough. It's a great read, even for non-wrestling fans.

BTW…. briefly had an exchange with Tony Cani on X today.

Told me he has seen the Coyotes making donations to the PACs of multiple Phoenix city council members

AZ Republic did report Meruelo and company met with one city councilman last summer around the time the the application to the trust was filed.

So it’s probably safe to presume the groundwork is being done on Meruelo’s end to have things rolling if this land purchase is completed.

….. in about 3 months.

 

[dj4aces]

You never watched The Walking Dead series??

Watch it? I had a front row seat! Parts of that show was filmed near my house, when I lived south of Atlanta. It wasn't anything major or eventful though, mostly extras walking down a local road.

But yeah, I've seen it, though it's been at least ten years since I last watched. It was more commentary how Netflix seems to cancel anything that doesn't get good during the first couple seasons.

To come around full circle, I'd expect the Netflix series about the Coyotes to get canceled sometime around the XVIII thread.

 

[aqib]

It's really far less about fan leverage and more about the municipality structure.

In most places, the cities that get their names on the jerseys have all the power and money. The suburbs grew out in the 1950s. There's an administrative processes to become villages, towns, and then cities.

IE. - Los Angeles became a city in 1835, and is bigger ($8.1 billion budget) than all the places surrounding it put together. Irvine became a city in 1971, and has a budget of $144 million.

But in Arizona, there was no administrative process. "Have 3000 people and call yourself a city" was put in place before statehood. So today you have this:

Phoenix $3.5 billion budget
Scottsdale, Tempe and Mesa: $1.4 billion each.
Chandler, Gilbert, Glendale, etc: $500m to $1 billion each.


So for your "Fans pressure the government" situation... ALL the fans, regardless of where they live, can demand the city take care of the team: A rally at Baltimore City Hall demanded they build Camden Yards and an NFL Stadium to get the Ravens. But it HAS to be Baltimore. The towns can't afford it, only the big city can.

That doesn't happen in Phoenix, and actually works the opposite. There's no urgency for Phoenix to act, because they're not losing the Coyotes, Glendale just did. If someone wants the Coyotes, the others work against it: The City of Phoenix worked against the Tempe arena, because they didn't want to lose arena business. Phoenix and the Coyotes sued each other over it.

And all the fans can do is yell "Somebody do something!"

Actually in Baltimore's case it was mostly state funding that did it. The rallys were held at the state capital not City Hall. The ESPN 30-for-30 about the Colts band outlined this.

The state funded most of the Cardinals Stadium. The county funded most of the Diamondbacks stadium. You don't see them anywhere on the Coyotes. Heck I remember a TV interview where a state rep said he didn't even know the Coyotes were still in town.

 

[KevFu]

Actually in Baltimore's case it was mostly state funding that did it. The rallys were held at the state capital not City Hall. The ESPN 30-for-30 about the Colts band outlined this.

The state funded most of the Cardinals Stadium. The county funded most of the Diamondbacks stadium. You don't see them anywhere on the Coyotes. Heck I remember a TV interview where a state rep said he didn't even know the Coyotes were still in town.

The 30-for-30 was exactly what I was thinking off! The visual was powerful.


I'd point out that the county vs city thing is also affected by all the power dynamic being different. Generally speaking, the county is above the cities/towns, and serves to unite the combined will of the people, who are spread out over a lot of small towns. It balances the power of the city vs town. But in Arizona, they haven't had the power dynamic of "the rest of us need Maricopa County to keep Phoenix in check!" because everyone else was a strong city as well. The county stuff is merely "what's convenient to cross our city borders."

Different places just have different dynamics. Going back to the state of Maryland saving the Orioles and getting the Ravens -- those stadiums are for EVERYONE. The entire state is only 9707 square miles. It's like "Sorry Cumberland and Salisbury, maybe you can drive the two hours for Saturday games?"

You don't have the same thing in like Texas or California, where funding a stadium for Sacramento or El Paso will make the rest of the state say "Uh, what? You're spending hundreds of millions on THEM? They're nine hours from us!"

I really think we're getting DEEP into the weeds on stuff like "why don't the people rally to force government action?!" When for thousands of pages it's been "if the team can't survive without a subsidy!" Like, NOW you're mad at the fans for not demanding a subsidy from one of 14 possible groups of politicians?

 

[hockeyguy0022]

I don't really like Salt Lake City to be honest. Seems weird.

 

[KevFu]

I don't really like Salt Lake City to be honest. Seems weird.

The weird thing is that Salt Lake got an NBA team like 50 years before an NHL team.

 

[TheLegend]

Actually in Baltimore's case it was mostly state funding that did it. The rallys were held at the state capital not City Hall. The ESPN 30-for-30 about the Colts band outlined this.

The state funded most of the Cardinals Stadium.

The state funded all of it.... via hotel and rental car taxes..... signed off on by the taxpayers.

The county funded most of the Diamondbacks stadium. You don't see them anywhere on the Coyotes.

County has been fighting with the DBacks for years over maintenance issues, until they finally just gave them the keys and told then they could do what they wanted with it. And there's still no guarantee they'll stay. (they looked to go to Las Vegas before the A's did)

Heck I remember a TV interview where a state rep said he didn't even know the Coyotes were still in town.

LOL... adding a little dramatic effect there? A lot of our state reps are clueless of things outside of their own interests..

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Said it once and I’ll say it again. Cannot wait for the Netflix docudrama of this entire ordeal to come out..

Starring Samuel L. Jackson as Tony LeBlanc

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Starring Samuel L. Jackson as Tony LeBlanc

TWO WEEKS MOTHERf***ER DO YOU SPEAK IT?

I think I'm onto something with this casting choice.

 

[Legion34]

Irony of this is…..

Seravalli knows less about Arizona than people here do.

Again. Seravalli was the only one who confidently knew months before “they don’t have the votes”

He has information there. You don’t like it. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know

 

[TheLegend]

Again. Seravalli was the only one who confidently knew months before “they don’t have the votes”

He has information there. You don’t like it. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know

If he was smart enough (or lucky enough) to follow the right people.

“I gOt ThIs OnE ThInG rIgHt sO yOu ShOuLd All LiStEn To Me!!” is not a good defense.

 

[Jetsfan79]

I don't really like Salt Lake City to be honest. Seems weird.

Respectfully disagree. To me an American city that hosted a winter Olympics doesnt feel out of place for hockey. Definitely not more weird than hockey in the dessert or where palm trees grow

 

[Stumbledore]

Respectfully disagree. To me an American city that hosted a winter Olympics doesnt feel out of place for hockey. Definitely not more weird than hockey in the dessert or where palm trees grow

Let's not forget all the corruption and criminal charges that arose from that Olympics. Definitely an American host city.

 

[GKJ]

The 32 Thoughts pod seemed to indicate 2 things

-The league does not want this to overshadow the outdoor games next week

-The league is going to let whatever is being worked on to be presented, but “there better be a serious plan soon”

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The 32 Thoughts pod seemed to indicate 2 things

-The league does not want this to overshadow the outdoor games next week

-The league is going to let whatever is being worked on to be presented, but “there better be a serious plan soon”

This has been the narrative for years, and on the current "chapter", echoed frequently since Tempe.

This is why I really think Phoenix is staying put. The NHL has seen enough developments to know that, when starting at square one, you're easily 3-4 years+ from a finished development/arena. If they were pulling up the stakes, they would have done so right after the Tempe vote.

 

[Mightygoose]

This has been the narrative for years, and on the current "chapter", echoed frequently since Tempe.

This is why I really think Phoenix is staying put. The NHL has seen enough developments to know that, when starting at square one, you're easily 3-4 years+ from a finished development/arena. If they were pulling up the stakes, they would have done so right after the Tempe vote.

Maybe. Thought after the Tempe plan failed and when it did, it was realistically too late to move the franchise.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Maybe. Thought after the Tempe plan failed and when it did, it was realistically too late to move the franchise.

I think this is true. I had to double check - the vote way May 16, 2023. I think it was clear the Coyotes and the League assumed the vote would succeed and didn't have a Plan B.

And I've said this before - if a relocation is coming, it will only be announced at the end of the season because otherwise you'd just kill ticket sales on a lame duck franchise.