CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Digital Kid]

Unless I misunderstand CapFriendly, Arizona's cash outlay right now is around $54m and the rest of the "Cap" is on dead money like retired/career-ending injuries contracts and buyout penalties.

Would a solid indicator of something happening be... to see if any renovations are quietly being done to SLC's arena to be NHL standard? Or would it already be NHL standard?

 

[GKJ]

Unless I misunderstand CapFriendly, Arizona's cash outlay right now is around $54m and the rest of the "Cap" is on dead money like retired/career-ending injuries contracts and buyout penalties.

Would a solid indicator of something happening be... to see if any renovations are quietly being done to SLC's arena to be NHL standard? Or would it already be NHL standard?

It’s still in-season for the Jazz, so doing so will be difficult until then.

 

[PredsHead]

More from Richard Rodier:

 

[KevFu]

When asking those questions as Rodier does, how about considering factors outside the hockey universe?

Maybe Smith saw the Miller family make the statement that Utah is ready for an MLB team, wants an expansion team, and could be home for a relocating team right now before the A's can move to Vegas, going so far as to put up billboards, just days before... and during the week the Utah government starts a new legislative session, with the Winter Olympic bid and sports spending being a pretty sizeable topic for them; making Smith's statement really more about jockeying for political support of his project first in line instead of later in line?

 

[TheLegend]

When asking those questions as Rodier does, how about considering factors outside the hockey universe?

Maybe Smith saw the Miller family make the statement that Utah is ready for an MLB team, wants an expansion team, and could be home for a relocating team right now before the A's can move to Vegas, going so far as to put up billboards, just days before... and during the week the Utah government starts a new legislative session, with the Winter Olympic bid and sports spending being a pretty sizeable topic for them; making Smith's statement really more about jockeying for political support of his project first in line instead of later in line?

There are a number of players/actors and side plots involved with this.

Rodier brought up a good point though that Smith publicly brought up his push for an NHL team and the league normally would have frowned on it….. but not this time.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

There are a number of players/actors and side plots involved with this.

Rodier brought up a good point though that Smith publicly brought up his push for an NHL team and the league normally would have frowned on it….. but not this time.

I thought it was obvious the NHL wanted a positive hockey story out there the same day as the Team Canada stuff broke, and that's why they were so positive around the SLC stuff.

Also - the NHL is clearly in expansion mode.

We know for a fact they've met with the Atlanta people as well, Saskatoon put out plans to build an NHL rink, Omaha and Kansas City have made it known they're interested too - NHL is clearly in the initial stages of something, regardless of what they say publicly.

 

[KevFu]

There are a number of players/actors and side plots involved with this.

Rodier brought up a good point though that Smith publicly brought up his push for an NHL team and the league normally would have frowned on it….. but not this time.

Right, but the implication is that because he said what he said, he must have the NHL's blessing.. and everyone is using that implied blessing to tie Salt Lake with the Coyotes being forced to sell/move.

But looking at it from a "Utah politics" perspective, cities aren't very likely to drop $2.5 to $3 billion in taxpayer dollars in simultaneous projects. If MLB stadium project goes first, the NBA/NHL arena is probably going to have to wait five years, with an opening just before the 2034 Olympics. (And vice versa).

It's in the NHL's best interest for Salt Lake to build an NBA/NHL arena, and build it NEXT instead of for 2034.

It's not just expansion or for the Coyotes to have options/leverage: Everyone looking for arena upgrades or new lease or new arena deals gets leverage if Salt Lake has a brand new building.

Most arenas have 30-year leases and TWENTY-ONE NHL arenas opened between 1993-2001.

So why exactly would Bettman have a problem with Smith saying what he said to jockey to get an NHL arena built before an MLB stadium?


And again, I'm not saying "everyone's wrong." I'm saying "be careful you're not just seeing the dots you WANT to connect instead of all the dots."

 

[dj4aces]

Rodier brought up a good point though that Smith publicly brought up his push for an NHL team and the league normally would have frowned on it….. but not this time.

I think there's a number of explanations for this.

I mean, the elephant in the room, and the big conspiracy theory, is that the timing of the release acted as a distraction, be it coincidental or deliberate, from the SA cases related to Hockey Canada.

Another thing to consider, with the press release, is Smith kinda spoke up for all prospective ownerships in at least the four leading markets with interest in a team by asking for the application process to be opened. He doesn't explicitly state he's gunning for a relocation, that's only what people think when he mentions being ready for one. It's really a pretty ambiguous statement, to be sure, but one I personally feel like people are making too big a deal out of.

Lastly, I think the league is more amenable to a potential owner expressing public interest than recent history suggests, it just depends on who that potential owner is, and what antics they're employing (or, at the very least, not disavowing themselves from) in an effort to make that push. A good example of that would be the fans in QC boarding buses and visiting Nassau Coliseum to cheer for the relocation of the Islanders (or the Thrashers) to their town. Or, consider Balsillie's antics in trying to get a team in Hamilton. The league seemingly wouldn't discuss expansion with him, so he sought out owners and offered the keys to the vault. In the end, Balsillie found himself blacklisted by the league, and for good reason.

At the end of the day, it's certainly an interesting question, but I also feel like it's a bit overblown if one looks at the circumstances of prior incidents with potential owners. I think Smith is kinda skirting the line with the press release, but the examples above are predatory, and the league absolutely doesn't like that nonsense.

 

[TheLegend]

Right, but the implication is that because he said what he said, he must have the NHL's blessing.. and everyone is using that implied blessing to tie Salt Lake with the Coyotes being forced to sell/move.

But looking at it from a "Utah politics" perspective, cities aren't very likely to drop $2.5 to $3 billion in taxpayer dollars in simultaneous projects. If MLB stadium project goes first, the NBA/NHL arena is probably going to have to wait five years, with an opening just before the 2034 Olympics. (And vice versa).

It's in the NHL's best interest for Salt Lake to build an NBA/NHL arena, and build it NEXT instead of for 2034.

It's not just expansion or for the Coyotes to have options/leverage: Everyone looking for arena upgrades or new lease or new arena deals gets leverage if Salt Lake has a brand new building.

Most arenas have 30-year leases and TWENTY-ONE NHL arenas opened between 1993-2001.

So why exactly would Bettman have a problem with Smith saying what he said to jockey to get an NHL arena built before an MLB stadium?


And again, I'm not saying "everyone's wrong." I'm saying "be careful you're not just seeing the dots you WANT to connect instead of all the dots."

I don’t know……. I’m just getting the feeling that there’s a whole bunch of jockeying going around on several fronts at the moment.

 

[PredsHead]

More from Richard Rodier:

Riddler strikes again:

 

[Mightygoose]

Interesting take about specifically not mentioning relocation.

Only said the Delta Center can host an NHL team next season...but never specified he would own one next season.

Will see how this plays out.

 

[KevFu]

I don’t know……. I’m just getting the feeling that there’s a whole bunch of jockeying going around on several fronts at the moment.

I'd agree to that, most definitely.

Like I said, I'm not saying that everyone implying the Coyotes will move to Salt Lake is wrong. I'm saying that we might be wrong to infer linkage between separate things that are just the self-interests of parties.


If it was up to us, decisions and deals would take minutes, not years. (Smith bought the Utah Jazz in 2020 and bought Real Salt Lake in 2022.... but he was able to buy the Jazz BECAUSE he was preparing his bid for Real Salt Lake, and asked the Millers if they wanted to join them or merge the two teams into one organization and that convo ended with him buying the Jazz).

All of us want to expand or relocate with a snap of our fingers and not wait months or years to see what happens.

To me it sounds more like there's not some kind of secret plan among multiple parties that's been resolved; but more like the NHL, Smith, Salt Lake/Utah and the Coyotes really just taking steps that work toward their preferred outcomes.

 

[JimAnchower]

I don’t know……. I’m just getting the feeling that there’s a whole bunch of jockeying going around on several fronts at the moment.

To me, it seems Meruelo was told he had to get an answer on the land bid before the end of May, which required the emergency addition to the meeting on Thursday. If Meruelo wins the bid, I think Coyotes stay in Phoenix at least one more year. It would give him a year to get all the approvals for the arena. If this Plan B fails on whatever hurdle next year, then he won't get a chance for a Plan C.

 

[dj4aces]

Riddler strikes again:

Not only that, but because the declared interest is solely in expansion, the due diligence process likely includes multiple prospective ownerships in multiple places, not just Smith. With so many interested markets looking for a team -- some prospective owners we know the names of, and some we don't (but the league does) -- it would only make sense for them to examine them all.

Whether or not the Coyotes gets bought by the league and sold off to an owner of their choosing, or the Coyotes remains in Phoenix, the advantage for the league is they'll also have some of the leg work done for expansion.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

If im right expansion is in the cards, im guessing the NHL is going to do everything possible to keep the coyotes in place for the time being.

If the relocate to SLC, they can't get that giant non-HRR sack of cash.

The game is most definitely afoot.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

To me, it seems Meruelo was told he had to get an answer on the land bid before the end of May, which required the emergency addition to the meeting on Thursday. If Meruelo wins the bid, I think Coyotes stay in Phoenix at least one more year. It would give him a year to get all the approvals for the arena. If this Plan B fails on whatever hurdle next year, then he won't get a chance for a Plan C.

I agree. I know we never say never with this situation, but I think it's this plan or nothing.

 

[GKJ]

The league wants to know when shovels will be in the ground. They’re not getting another year without knowing that.

If im right expansion is in the cards, im guessing the NHL is going to do everything possible to keep the coyotes in place for the time being.

If the relocate to SLC, they can't get that giant non-HRR sack of cash.

The game is most definitely afoot.

They’re going to get that no matter what they do

 

[dj4aces]

To me, it seems Meruelo was told he had to get an answer on the land bid before the end of May, which required the emergency addition to the meeting on Thursday. If Meruelo wins the bid, I think Coyotes stay in Phoenix at least one more year. It would give him a year to get all the approvals for the arena. If this Plan B fails on whatever hurdle next year, then he won't get a chance for a Plan C.

It's entirely possible, and would explain where the "three months" thing came from. Not necessarily because the auction could be completed in three months, but because it needs to be.

When the Thrashers were moved, the sale deadline was 31 May 2011 at 12pm ET, and this was so league schedules could be planned and completed. Which leads me to...

They’re not getting another year.

...this. Indeed, they aren't. If that auction isn't done by the end of May, if Meruelo doesn't have a deed to that land in hand to show the league, this is unfortunately where the story ends.

 

[GKJ]

It's entirely possible, and would explain where the "three months" thing came from. Not necessarily because the auction could be completed in three months, but because it needs to be.

When the Thrashers were moved, the sale deadline was 31 May 2011 at 12pm ET, and this was so league schedules could be planned and completed. Which leads me to...



...this. Indeed, they aren't. If that auction isn't done by the end of May, if Meruelo doesn't have a deed to that land in hand to show the league, this is unfortunately where the story ends.

The league schedules are made long before that, with some changes made as necessary. They just make more than one.

In reality, they did not decide a move was happening on May 31, and that was hasty. They didn’t even have a jersey at the draft. Similar entering North Carolina. They’re entering a new market here, and need to be buttoned up to do that.

There is a lot more groundwork that must be done, and I’d imagine that unlike with the Thrashers, they’d want a full marketing campaign in the area, which wasn’t really necessary with Winnipeg. Thryre going to want to start getting season ticket signups no later than April, if not before.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

It's entirely possible, and would explain where the "three months" thing came from. Not necessarily because the auction could be completed in three months, but because it needs to be.

When the Thrashers were moved, the sale deadline was 31 May 2011 at 12pm ET, and this was so league schedules could be planned and completed. Which leads me to...



...this. Indeed, they aren't. If that auction isn't done by the end of May, if Meruelo doesn't have a deed to that land in hand to show the league, this is unfortunately where the story ends.

As anyone who lived in MB or was with the Jets at the time can attest, that was absolutely not enough time to prepare for the upcoming season, not only from a logistics perspective, but also from a hockey operations perspective.

Having an NBA team would help with the logistics, but the hockey ops side is gonna be a real challenge without a base.

Ownership in Winnipeg brought the gm of the AHL Moose team to the opening press conference that day, (edit) and it still wasn't really enough.

 

[Apex Predator]

With all the news where are we standing percentage wise how likely the coyotes are to stay?

 

[dj4aces]

The league schedules are made long before that, with some changes made as necessary. They just make more than one.

From what I was told, the two sides were told a deal had to be signed by 31 May 2011 at 12pm, or the Thrashers would remain in Atlanta for 2011-2012, and play a lost season here as a result, and this would affect scheduling. If they're playing out of Atlanta, they have to schedule around Atlanta events, after all. Whether that statement was true at the time, it got Atlanta Spirit to stop squabbling and sign the deal, because they didn't want the team here. Atlanta Spirit objected to the relocation fee coming out of the sale price -- they wanted all $170 million.

Just a little insight.

 

[GKJ]

From what I was told, the two sides were told a deal had to be signed by 31 May 2011 at 12pm, or the Thrashers would remain in Atlanta for 2011-2012, and play a lost season here as a result. Whether that statement was true at the time, it got Atlanta Spirit to stop squabbling and sign the deal, because they didn't want the team here. Atlanta Spirit objected to the relocation fee coming out of the sale price -- they wanted all $170 million.

Just a little insight.

I’m not from the area like you are to know better, but that seemed impractical. That would’ve taken the NHL to a worse place than ASG would be. At any rate, the league still knew where they were headed, and I’m sure having things sorted out much sooner is beneficial.

 

[dj4aces]

I’m not from the area like you are to know better, but that seemed impractical. That would’ve taken the NHL to a worse place than ASG would be. At any rate, the league still knew where they were headed, and I’m sure having things sorted out much sooner is beneficial.

I believe you're correct, mind you, and I'm not arguing that at all. It's just the reason that was given. Atlanta Spirit had already terminated the Thrashers lease in Philips, so if they were forced to keep the team in town for another season, they'd also be forced to play the team in that building.

It seems illogical and impractical, and perhaps it was a league bluff, but it's what I was told at the time.

So, when I saw "three months", two and two came together: A deal has to be done, and done before the end of May, or else.

 

[Fatass]

It just seems like the Coyotes have no leverage in their market. It’s not Baseball, Football, or Basketball. It’s hockey. And not enough people in that market care enough to put pressure on government to help the club. Sad really.