CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[AintLifeGrand]

Doesn't need a rebrand. It needs consistent, playoff appearances with some deep runs (very much on plan finally) and it needs a building (shrug). These two ingredients will lead to all the ownership debacles falling into memory holes where they belong.

Also the Kachina jerseys could work in Salt Lake:

The Kachina jerseys are obviously inspired by the Hopi/ Zuni indigenous groups of the Colorado Plateau.

The ancestors of the Hopi/Zuni were the Anasazi and Fremont Culture- who inhabited much of Utah (Southern Utah/ 4 Corners region for the Anasazi) . The Fremont were essenitally colder weather/hill billy cousins of the Anasazi who eschewed the dramatic and architecturally imoressive cliff dwellings/great houses for pit houses and a semi nomadic way of life. The Fremont inhabited the Wasatch Front, among the Eastern, South Central and SouthWestern parts of the state. When you see pictographs/ petroglyphs depicted in popular culture as references to Utah I.E the logo of Moab Brewing or the evocative “Great Galley”, you are seeing Barrier Canyon Style Fremont Rock Art- unique to the Beehive State

Like the Anasazi (or Ancestral Puebloans -the woke name for them) , the Fremont civilization collapsed around 1350 AD and they migrated south and merged with the existing Puebloid groups of N Arizona: The Kayenta band of the Anasazi and Sinagua people, thus creating the modern "Hopi/Zuni/Pueblos" who occupy Northern AZ/NM.

The Kachina cult emerged shortly thereafter in the now blended neo-puebloan groups that exist to this day; So in essence SLC has legitimate agency to keep the existing Kachina Sweaters

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Not what T'Servo's saying. The on-ice product is trending up. The Organization, as a brand, the stringer of owners, front office debacles, failed partnerships, etc the last 17 years is what needs rebranding. Perhaps, I could concede "rebrand" is not the word to use. But in the grander scheme of things, its not the wins and losses, the attendance, lack of playoff success since 2007-2008 (when all this shit started) that comes to the minds of those in the political landscape, and the city government and corporate realms.

It's the lack of confidence, transparency, even the word trust from Moyes to Mereulo, Chayka, the work environment issues (Strang article), Barroway, the complete idiocy surrounding the Craig Tindall hiring, Anthony Leblanc, the League "requiring" nearly $50M to run the club. Hell, let's lump in Hulsizer and his parking lot scheme, Jamison and his last-minute white flag because he couldn't get the finances secured.

Moyes, Balsillie... I don't think I need to keep going. It's toxic.

This doesn't get swept under a rug as quickly as everyone wants with "... consistent, playoff appearances with some deep runs" and a building.

Bluntly, its this timeline of issues that has played a very major part in why they don't have a building, other than ASU, at the moment.

Yes, thanks - I wasn't referring to on-ice product at all.

It traces back to when Gluckstern and Burke couldn't get an arena deal in Minnesota.

Molson should have stayed strong though the boycott to keep them out of the league altogether - then we wouldn't have this problem

 

[TheLegend]

Sadly it is looking like the owners will be forced (by he league) to sell.,

Looks are deceiving at the moment.

But I'm not ruling it out.

 

[TheLegend]

They will want to go back, but someone still has to want to own the team there. The franchise has been getting passed around for like 25 years, that’s been the actual problem. Not being able to find a place for a new arena is simply the culmination of past sins.

IF.... this were to happen it wouldn't be for a while and would happen unless there was a solid plan in place.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes, thanks - I wasn't referring to on-ice product at all.


Molson should have stayed strong though the boycott to keep them out of the league altogether - then we wouldn't have this problem

Meh..... blame John Ziegler for telling Jerry Colangelo the league wasn't coming to Phoenix "in your lifetime" leading Colangelo to build his new arena only for basketball.

 

[Headshot77]

Also the Kachina jerseys could work in Salt Lake:

The Kachina jerseys are obviously inspired by the Hopi/ Zuni indigenous groups of the Colorado Plateau.

The ancestors of the Hopi/Zuni were the Anasazi and Fremont Culture- who inhabited much of Utah (Southern Utah/ 4 Corners region for the Anasazi) . The Fremont were essenitally colder weather/hill billy cousins of the Anasazi who eschewed the dramatic and architecturally imoressive cliff dwellings/great houses for pit houses and a semi nomadic way of life. The Fremont inhabited the Wasatch Front, among the Eastern, South Central and SouthWestern parts of the state. When you see pictographs/ petroglyphs depicted in popular culture as references to Utah I.E the logo of Moab Brewing or the evocative “Great Galley”, you are seeing Barrier Canyon Style Fremont Rock Art- unique to the Beehive State

Like the Anasazi (or Ancestral Puebloans -the woke name for them) , the Fremont civilization collapsed around 1350 AD and they migrated south and merged with the existing Puebloid groups of N Arizona: The Kayenta band of the Anasazi and Sinagua people.

The Kachina cult emerged shortly thereafter in the now blended neo-puebloan groups that exist to this day; So in essence SLC has legitimate agency to keep the existing Kachina Sweaters

As long as the league doesn't lose these jerseys that's all I care about. The Coyotes have always had a top-tier kit.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

IF.... this were to happen it wouldn't be for a while and would happen unless there was a solid plan in place.

If the team moves, the NHL would be insanely stupid to write off the Phoenix area for good. It's far too big a market in terms of population to ignore forever, if it comes to that.

 

[stealth1]

If the team moves, the NHL would be insanely stupid to write off the Phoenix area for good. It's far too big a market in terms of population to ignore forever, if it comes to that.

I agree to a point as they are possibly giving Atlanta it's 3rd try. Sometimes it feels like the NHL prioritizes market size over a market that likes hockey or be the only pro sport in town.

 

[LPHabsFan]

If the team moves, the NHL would be insanely stupid to write off the Phoenix area for good. It's far too big a market in terms of population to ignore forever, if it comes to that.

History has proven that market size means almost nothing when it comes to places in the US.

 

[BMN]

History has proven that market size means almost nothing when it comes to places in the US.

Here's the thing re: the "too big" argument:

Houston is a bigger market, always has been, has always had more corporations, and is always growing to stay ahead of Phoenix in market ranking. If there is such a thing as a market being "too big" to ignore, then I guess the NHL has been screwed this entire century and before for not being in Houston. And flat out moronic for not finding a way to make it happen in the 1990s.

It goes without saying the NHL is better off if it works in Phoenix. But the idea that "this market is too big for the NHL to not have a team there in perpetuity" doesn't hold weight so long as Houston doesn't have a team.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Here's the thing re: the "too big" argument:

Houston is a bigger market, always has been, has always had more corporations, and is always growing to stay ahead of Phoenix in market ranking. If there is such a thing as a market being "too big" to ignore, then I guess the NHL has been screwed this entire century and before for not being in Houston. And flat out moronic for not finding a way to make it happen in the 1990s.

It goes without saying the NHL is better off if it works in Phoenix. But the idea that "this market is too big for the NHL to not have a team there in perpetuity" doesn't hold weight so long as Houston doesn't have a team.

Uumm.....I have no idea how you got to your point while responding to mind. I wasn't saying there are markets that are too big. I was just saying that having an NHL franchise in large US markets is not 100% necessary nor is it a guaranteed pathway to success.

The NHL is a niche sport. It always has been and it always will. They need to cultivate that. Having teams in all the large markets means nothing.

 

[BMN]

Uumm.....I have no idea how you got to your point while responding to mine.

By quoting the wrong post, that's how. Stand by my point, though.

 

[Acesolid]

I truly cannot believe the Coyotes saga is STILL going on.

Following it all these years on this Board is like a Soap Opera. Lol!

 

[Fatass]

Friedman’s 32 thoughts being discussed on Vancouver Sports radio. League might force Muerello to sell for purposes of relocation.

 

[aqib]

I don't think they can "force" Muerello unless he broke a league rule or there was some clause in his purchase agreement (like the NBA had with the Bucks). Or unless they make a deal of some kind where he gets a shot at an expansion team in the future kind of like the Browns/Baltimore deal. Maybe something like you sell this team to SLC and you get an expansion team in 2028 if you have a new arena built

 

[Edenjung]

Isn't it deminishing the value of the franchises if you force an owner to sell?
Doesn't that hurt potential expansion fees?

 

[JimAnchower]

Ok, but the Jets have 80,000 seats. Mullet has 4600. If they're reaching that far down the list to fill that place, it's the opposite of a success story.

I went to a match at Fulham FC in London 15 years ago and still get emails from them. It just means you're on an email list they never purge addresses from.

 

[LPHabsFan]

I don't think they can "force" Muerello unless he broke a league rule or there was some clause in his purchase agreement (like the NBA had with the Bucks). Or unless they make a deal of some kind where he gets a shot at an expansion team in the future kind of like the Browns/Baltimore deal. Maybe something like you sell this team to SLC and you get an expansion team in 2028 if you have a new arena built

He doesn't care about the Coyotes. He never has. It was at best a means to an end (Entertainment District). If the expectation of a change in ownership is happening, you will start to hear things along those lines regarding his involvement and motives along with how much he actually put into the team/lost (hint: it won't be a lot if any).

Isn't it deminishing the value of the franchises if you force an owner to sell?
Doesn't that hurt potential expansion fees?

Not really. This team has always been the exception to the rule whenever you talk about....well....anything.

Plus, it's not like it impacted either Vegas or Seatlle when it came to their expansion fee.

 

[objectiveposter]

I don't think they can "force" Muerello unless he broke a league rule or there was some clause in his purchase agreement (like the NBA had with the Bucks). Or unless they make a deal of some kind where he gets a shot at an expansion team in the future kind of like the Browns/Baltimore deal. Maybe something like you sell this team to SLC and you get an expansion team in 2028 if you have a new arena built

not a chance. muerrello is a cheap tight wad....and the price tag of a franchise in 2028 would be significantly higher than what he was forced to sell for now.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

History has proven that market size means almost nothing when it comes to places in the US.

For better or worse, the NHL isn't courting existing fans. They're courting footprints, corporate dollars and taxpayer-funded yet team-controlled arenas.

Atlanta and Phoenix are massive, getting larger and contain huge corporate presences. I've never been to Phoenix but I have been to Atlanta, and it is a huge corporate entity with a lot of wealthy residents. That's the NHL's target clientele, whether we like it or not.

 

[JimAnchower]

I don't think they can "force" Muerello unless he broke a league rule or there was some clause in his purchase agreement (like the NBA had with the Bucks). Or unless they make a deal of some kind where he gets a shot at an expansion team in the future kind of like the Browns/Baltimore deal. Maybe something like you sell this team to SLC and you get an expansion team in 2028 if you have a new arena built

They could apply pressure, like:
- they won't get an ASG, Draft, Winter Classic/outdoor game
- they can't sit on any of the important owner committees

As you say, unless there a broken rule, an agreement, or threaten they won't allow Mullett to host games anymore after the current lease ends, they can't force a sale. But they could carrot and stick it.

 

[Ernie]

I don't think they can "force" Muerello unless he broke a league rule or there was some clause in his purchase agreement (like the NBA had with the Bucks). Or unless they make a deal of some kind where he gets a shot at an expansion team in the future kind of like the Browns/Baltimore deal. Maybe something like you sell this team to SLC and you get an expansion team in 2028 if you have a new arena built

Debt.

It was reported that Meruelo actually put very little down when he "bought" the franchise, with the NHL holding most (or all) of the debt.

With all the losses over the years, you can't imagine that debt has decreased, and finding another source to fund that debt would be prohibitively expensive.

You can bet that the NHL put into the terms of the agreement that they can call the loan and take over ownership at will. If Meruelo can find a local buyer to pay more than the outstanding debt for the franchise, he can pocket the difference. But that seems unlikely.

 

[MeHateHe]

You do realize that Utah is like 90% desert? Salt Lake is one of the driest cities in America and located in a high desert.

Even Park City is high desert; the only non desert areas are maybe the Cache Valley and various canyons/ alpine areas.

Sure, and there are jazz clubs in Salt Lake City. And flames in Calgary. And maybe there's a grizzly in the Memphis zoo. Sports teams are often named for things associated with their city/region. Phoenix went with a desert theme because of course they did, and the coyote - despite its ubiquity - fits with that theme.

People aren't thinking desert and coyotes when they think about Salt Lake City.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Sure, and there are jazz clubs in Salt Lake City. And flames in Calgary. And maybe there's a grizzly in the Memphis zoo. Sports teams are often named for things associated with their city/region. Phoenix went with a desert theme because of course they did, and the coyote - despite its ubiquity - fits with that theme.

People aren't thinking desert and coyotes when they think about Salt Lake City.

Outside of Mormonism and Skiing, the Utah's biggest Calling Card is the "Mighty 5 (Zion NP, Bryce Canyon NP, Arches NP, Canyonlands NP, and Capitol Reef NP)...these are all desert/high desert locales.

Utah is desert

 

[sneakytitz]

Hasn't SEG's (SLC group) pitch to the NHL been that the Delta Center would function as a temporary home for the team until a new arena could be completed? From what is publicly available, I see no formal steps towards a new arena in SLC (and all we've heard is that it's only been a meeting in Draper and conversations with SLC's mayor), so why is SLC the leading relocation candidate? You trade 4,500 fans per game for 14,000 on the hopes that an arena deal could be reached? Is that not the main issue in Arizona, just with 10,000 extra fans a game?

If the NHL takes over, I just don't see this team relocating to SLC without an arena deal in place.