CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Snarky Coyote]

The issues the Coyotes have had traced back to that very plan.

"Uh, that's why it's a horror movie." (to elaborate, the original Winnipeg team would move to Atlanta, and when Atlanta doesn't work (again), they could relocate to Winnipeg) It just keeps going around and around forever. Kinda like this thread,

 

[TheGreenTBer]

If they do somehow make it worth with Meruelo, homie should walk out to the press conference like this

 

[Ernie]

To me it seems more likely that it’s the NHL itself who would be having those conversations with Utah now—and that the NHL would use their by-laws force the current Coyotes owners to sell the franchise back to the league?

The NHL will want a huge relocation fee, which is why they are likely trying to cut Meruelo out. This will almost certainly end up in court.

The big question is: how can the league induce Meruelo to sell the team to them? I think we'll probably soon find out that the league (still) holds a huge chunk of the team's debt, and a stipulation of that debt is that they can demand payment and regain control of the team at any time.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Doesn't need a rebrand. It needs consistent, playoff appearances with some deep runs (very much on plan finally) and it needs a building (shrug). These two ingredients will lead to all the ownership debacles falling into memory holes where they belong.

Not what T'Servo's saying. The on-ice product is trending up. The Organization, as a brand, the stringer of owners, front office debacles, failed partnerships, etc the last 17 years is what needs rebranding. Perhaps, I could concede "rebrand" is not the word to use. But in the grander scheme of things, its not the wins and losses, the attendance, lack of playoff success since 2007-2008 (when all this shit started) that comes to the minds of those in the political landscape, and the city government and corporate realms.

It's the lack of confidence, transparency, even the word trust from Moyes to Mereulo, Chayka, the work environment issues (Strang article), Barroway, the complete idiocy surrounding the Craig Tindall hiring, Anthony Leblanc, the League "requiring" nearly $50M to run the club. Hell, let's lump in Hulsizer and his parking lot scheme, Jamison and his last-minute white flag because he couldn't get the finances secured.

Moyes, Balsillie... I don't think I need to keep going. It's toxic.

This doesn't get swept under a rug as quickly as everyone wants with "... consistent, playoff appearances with some deep runs" and a building.

Bluntly, its this timeline of issues that has played a very major part in why they don't have a building, other than ASU, at the moment.

 

[DustyDangler]

Not what T'Servo's saying. The on-ice product is trending up. The Organization, as a brand, the stringer of owners, front office debacles, failed partnerships, etc the last 17 years is what needs rebranding. Perhaps, I could concede "rebrand" is not the word to use. But in the grander scheme of things, its not the wins and losses, the attendance, lack of playoff success since 2007-2008 (when all this shit started) that comes to the minds of those in the political landscape, and the city government and corporate realms.

It's the lack of confidence, transparency, even the word trust from Moyes to Mereulo, Chayka, the work environment issues (Strang article), Barroway, the complete idiocy surrounding the Craig Tindall hiring, Anthony Leblanc, the League "requiring" nearly $50M to run the club. Hell, let's lump in Hulsizer and his parking lot scheme, Jamison and his last-minute white flag because he couldn't get the finances secured.

Moyes, Balsillie... I don't think I need to keep going. It's toxic.

This doesn't get swept under a rug as quickly as everyone wants with "... consistent, playoff appearances with some deep runs" and a building.

Bluntly, its this timeline of issues that has played a very major part in why they don't have a building, other than ASU, at the moment.

The on-ice product is trending up because hiring Bill Armstrong, giving him resources and getting out of the way is the one thing this owner has done well.

Good said on more than one of your points regarding the owners and the business side of things. They could use an image consultant or 5 and a lesson or two about playing well with others.

Only issue I would take is the idea that Katie Strang is still considered credible. She should be nowhere near a keyboard after what she did to Bauer and everything she has ever written should be reevaluated and double checked for accuracy. What she alleged in her article about the Coyotes maybe true, maybe not but no one should trust a thing she has ever said or typed.

 

[TheLegend]

The issues the Coyotes have had traced back to that very plan.

It traces back to when Gluckstern and Burke couldn't get an arena deal in Minnesota.

 

[Fatass]

It traces back to when Gluckstern and Burke couldn't get an arena deal in Minnesota.

Sadly it is looking like the owners will be forced (by he league) to sell.,

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Sadly it is looking like the owners will be forced (by he league) to sell.,

I mean, part of me can't blame the league if that happens because this guy has been given more than one chance and he may have blown it.

 

[Fatass]

I mean, part of me can't blame the league if that happens because this guy has been given more than one chance and he may have blown it.

Yup. There comes a point when the rest of the owners expect more. They will dust on adding revenue.

 

[GreenHornet]

I'm sure this has been brought up before, and probably many times, in any of these Coyotes mega-threads, but the latest speculation (and that's all it is at the moment) of this whole saga being over and the 'Yotes will relocate (possibly to SLC) has gotten me to thinking.

Really, you can trace this whole fiasco that has been the Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes back to when they first relocated from Winnipeg back in 1995, but only after they were originally appeared headed to Minnesota, only to be diverted to Phoenix when the former fell through.

Seems to me that the franchise (and maybe the market in general) never really had much of a chance after the whole deal got put together in such a slapdash manner. There just never seemed to be any long-term plan.

 

[Boris Zubov]

There's 17 Coyotes home games left, with most the tickets sold already via season tickets (And FYI, the limited availability led to a 50% increase in season-ticket revenue for the Coyotes. Mullet proves Glendale was the problem). Wouldn't selling deposits on season-tickets for 41 games at the Delta Center be A LOT MORE business for the franchise/league than unsold Mullet tickets in a lame-duck situation after an announcement?

Sorry, not buying it. This is a bridge way too far when they haven't even sold out every game at Mullet. Glendale had its issues, but the East Valley/West Valley argument in this saga has been so overblown.

Side note...I still get emails from the Coyotes about buying single game tickets because I went to a game there about 6 years ago. Demand isn't exactly sky high for hockey in the Phoenix metro.

 

[ponder719]

Side note...I still get emails from the Coyotes about buying single game tickets because I went to a game there about 6 years ago. Demand isn't exactly sky high for hockey in the Phoenix metro.

I went to see the (NY) Jets once, a few years back. Still get emails from them, too. That's not a sign of success or failure, only of standard marketing procedure.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I went to see the (NY) Jets once, a few years back. Still get emails from them, too. That's not a sign of success or failure, only of standard marketing procedure.

Ok, but the Jets have 80,000 seats. Mullet has 4600. If they're reaching that far down the list to fill that place, it's the opposite of a success story.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I went to see the (NY) Jets once, a few years back. Still get emails from them, too. That's not a sign of success or failure, only of standard marketing procedure.

Christ Almighty, that alone should automatically qualify you for long-term disability benefits.

 

[BMN]

Not arguing in defense of how well the Coyotes sell Mullet tickets or not, but "they still email me" ranks way way up there in weakness of argument. Every professional sports team in America that I saw at least once without using a second hand website to buy the ticket has continued to email me. Every one.

 

[DustyDangler]

Sorry, not buying it. This is a bridge way too far when they haven't even sold out every game at Mullet.

Please prove this statement.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Not arguing in defense of how well the Coyotes sell Mullet tickets or not, but "they still email me" ranks way way up there in weakness of argument. Every professional sports team in America that I saw at least once without using a second hand website to buy the ticket has continued to email me. Every one.

The crux of the argument was they cannot sell out 4600 seats...the fact that anyone is getting emailed by the Yotes to buy single game tickets is the bigger issue.

Please prove this statement.

Really?!? LOL

It took me two clicks....

https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/19005EEA7FFD0D18?brand=phxcoyotes&artistid=806002&wt.mc_id=NHL_TEAM_ARI_SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM26&utm_source=NHL.com&utm_medium=client&utm_campaign=NHL_TEAM_ARI&utm_content=SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM26?CFC_COYOTES_WEB_SGTICKETPG_SINGLEGAME&_ga=2.110401925.1616187689.1693518701-1923358593.1693061998

https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/19005EEA80180D30?brand=phxcoyotes&artistid=806002&wt.mc_id=NHL_TEAM_ARI_SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM34&utm_source=NHL.com&utm_medium=client&utm_campaign=NHL_TEAM_ARI&utm_content=SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM34?CFC_COYOTES_WEB_SGTICKETPG_SINGLEGAME&_ga=2.218559257.1616187689.1693518701-1923358593.1693061998

 

[Osakahaus]

Which team has had the bigger impact? The team that stumbled around for 30 years like a homeless alcoholic, or the team that won a Stanley Cup in 5? And I don't even like Vegas.

I get the "we need hockey in Arizona" argument, but... It's the Coyotes, arguably the most incompetent organization in the league. At some point, you gotta cut them loose and become someone else's problem.

this is essentially where I feel

Arizona has failed because they didn't continue to hit the sweet spots that Vegas has constantly hit, location be damned. IK that Arizona is a snowbird stop, but it also is for Vegas (As seen by any leafs/rangers/habs/penguins/bruins games in Vegas). The Coyotes #1 ISSUE is that nobody cares for them as an owner. Full on negligence. Yes, Gutierrez has tried, but the times are getting closer to the zero hour. I feel like the NHL, in its best interests, needs to move them.

To the Coyotes fans, this is not a knock on you. I feel everything for the fanbase and wish that they were able to succeed. However. The people who not only owned the Coyotes, but brought them here, have done nothing to make them feel like a welcome team with all the hassle that they've brought.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Not addressing anyone in particular, but if we've learned anything over the years it's that thise franchise isn't dead unless and/or until it's officially dead. We need to see how things play out.

This might be the end or it might not, and unless the NHL begrudgingly chooses to do so they aren't giving up on this market..as long as one or more people in a NHL-approved location with a NHL-approved arena or temp arena + profitable arena plan aren't willing to pay AM's and/or the NHL's asking price in a hypothetical sale because i can't imagine them putting up with this shit for so long unless they felt they absolutely had to. If he can't get a favorable real estate deal I can't imagine Meruelo waiting forever on this but unless he's forced out it's up to him and him alone as to how long the holdout can occur, assuming the lease at Mullett doesn't run out beforehand.

 

[blues10]

IF any type of relocation sale takes place it will be the NHL owners splitting the difference between what the Coyotes are worth in Arizona and what value they have in another market.

Who knows what AM may owe the league????

I am not in favour of a relocation but without a NHL building or land to build such an arena this could be the end of the NHL in Arizona for now.

If we have learned one thing in all the years. It’s not over until Gary says it’s over.

 

[GKJ]

Not addressing anyone in particular, but if we've learned anything over the years it's that thise franchise isn't dead unless and/or until it's officially dead. We need to see how things play out.

This might be the end or it might not, and unless the NHL grudgingly chooses to do so they aren't giving up on this market..as long as one or more people in a NHL-approved location with a NHL-approved arena or temp arena + profitable arena plan aren't willing to pay AM's and/or the NHL's asking price. If he can't get a favorable real estate deal I can't imagine Meruelo waiting forever on this but unless he's forced out it's up to him and him alone as to how long the holdout can occur.

They will want to go back, but someone still has to want to own the team there. The franchise has been getting passed around for like 25 years, that’s been the actual problem. Not being able to find a place for a new arena is simply the culmination of past sins.

 

[DustyDangler]

The crux of the argument was they cannot sell out 4600 seats...the fact that anyone is getting emailed by the Yotes to buy single game tickets is the bigger issue.


Really?!? LOL

It took me two clicks....

https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/19005EEA7FFD0D18?brand=phxcoyotes&artistid=806002&wt.mc_id=NHL_TEAM_ARI_SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM26&utm_source=NHL.com&utm_medium=client&utm_campaign=NHL_TEAM_ARI&utm_content=SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM26?CFC_COYOTES_WEB_SGTICKETPG_SINGLEGAME&_ga=2.110401925.1616187689.1693518701-1923358593.1693061998

https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/19005EEA80180D30?brand=phxcoyotes&artistid=806002&wt.mc_id=NHL_TEAM_ARI_SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM34&utm_source=NHL.com&utm_medium=client&utm_campaign=NHL_TEAM_ARI&utm_content=SINGLE_GAME_TICKETS_PAGE_GM34?CFC_COYOTES_WEB_SGTICKETPG_SINGLEGAME&_ga=2.218559257.1616187689.1693518701-1923358593.1693061998

Two clicks to determine they have future tix for sale...good on ya.

NHL Attendance | Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Because I'm into finding hilarity in the oddest places, I think it would just be funny for Utah to have hockey team with a desert theme at the same time they have a basketball team named for a music style that is not exactly tied to the city's culture. Maybe the Florida Marlins will move to Salt Lake City next? Or the Dallas Cowboys?

You do realize that Utah is like 90% desert? Salt Lake is one of the driest cities in America and located in a high desert.

Even Park City is high desert; the only non desert areas are maybe the Cache Valley and various canyons/ alpine areas.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Two clicks to determine they have future tix for sale...good on ya.

NHL Attendance | Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Well color me shocked. Good for them. Unfortunately it still doesn't prove that Glendale was the problem it was made out to be.

 

[eojsmada]

Going to get this out here before anyone gets any other ideas.....

Pagnatta spreading unsubstantiated rumors too.
("premature"??? I'd say non-existant)

Based on the Bettman School of Speak...The Coyotes owners, while having not physically met with the SLC folks, may have sent representatives to meet with them or at least engaged in communications with them. To deny physically meeting with them is a useless statement as Meruelo would probably never get involved in anything until he has to physically sign a document and even then he may never meet the SLC group.

Not saying that this is a nothing nor am I saying that it is something....Just that Morgan reporting that ownership hasn't met with the SLC folks is like saying I've haven't seen a good friend of mine in over 10 years, even though I've been in contact with them regularly.