CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheLegend]

C'mon Craig? You mean c'mon Frank, please stop lying?

He was saying he heard the same thing.

Doesn't mean what he heard was factual.

 

[MNNumbers]

More to the like..... Meruelo has to convince the league he has a solid plan in place ASAP or they'll start the ball rolling.

This is probably correct. With emphasis on ASAP

 

[Ernie]

More to the like..... Meruelo has to convince the league he has a solid plan in place ASAP or they'll start the ball rolling.

LOL i'm starting to think you were just doing a comedy bit all this time.

 

[decma]

There's 17 Coyotes home games left, with most the tickets sold already via season tickets (And FYI, the limited availability led to a 50% increase in season-ticket revenue for the Coyotes. Mullet proves Glendale was the problem). Wouldn't selling deposits on season-tickets for 41 games at the Delta Center be A LOT MORE business for the franchise/league than unsold Mullet tickets in a lame-duck situation after an announcement?

I am not following this. How are the two mutually exclusive?

Unsold Mullet tickets could be sold for the next few weeks and then tickets for the Delta Center could be sold after an April announcement.

Yes, the window for Delta sales would be a couple months shorter, but that wouldn't necessarily cost more money (in real or nominal terms) than selling unsold Mullet tickets would generate.

 

[aqib]

Numbers added by me.

1) I'm an Islanders fan: "Strong momentum on an arena deal" is Lucy placing a football for Charlie Brown.

I think too often there's a tendency when trying to "read the tea leaves" to assume organizations are hyper-competent coordinated powers, when they're really just a collective noun for individual flawed humans with different brains/logic, etc.

There's also a massive thing with sports fans, that when the media says "This guys says...." We assume he's asking everyone for their attention so he can speak. But really, the media ASKED, but cut out their question. Walsh was asked... at the ASG.

2) Why doesn't Gary Bettman rein him in? Why does he need to? Why get into it with the NHLPA's spokesman in the press when the status quo is the status quo, until it's not (Which that phrase sums up like 90% of what Bettman ever says). What's there to even update on? The Coyotes are looking for a new arena. Not really an update.


3) As for Smith, what motivation does he have to bring up Salt Lake publicly? Well, Utah is going hog wild on a media blitz about their commitment to sports, as part of their Olympic bid, which a new arena for the Jazz/NHL is a key part of that. I mean, he IS trying to get a $1.5 or $2 billion arena from taxpayers...

Both Smith and the Miller family are going back and forth shilling for their own billion dollar projects: Miller put up "Utah wants the A's" billboards, saying SLC can be a temporary home for them prior to SLC's expansion team (that he's bidding on) starting play the same year the Vegas park opens.

It doesn't all have to be a coordinate attack by a cabal of hyper-competent people. It can just be individuals acting in their own self-interest.

1) The Islanders were never a serious threat to leave NY. The cable deal was too good for them to leave.

2) Yes Walsh was responding to a question from the media, but everyone knew that question was coming. If there was something that had even the faintest pulse he wouldn't have come out firing the way he did. It was just a bad look that Bettman would have rather avoided

3) Again compare TNSE getting the Jets vs Balsillie striking out 3 times. We know Bettman meets with lots of cities. However, whether it was Vegas or Seattle they didn't say stuff publicly until they were allowed to. Same with TNSE. Even after they got the team, Chipman still had to get his speech cleared by Bettman. So Smith talking that openly without Bettman's ok would only tick off Bettman. So it would have been in his best interest to keep his mouth shut until Bettman told him it was ok.

 

[DustyDangler]

They didn't get "kicked out" because they didn't pay their bills. They got kicked out because Glendale wanted a long term commitment. The Coyotes didn't want a long term commitment. (That was sort of dumb) because they didn't have an immediate solution in place. They put all their eggs into the Tempe basket and failed.

In the movie, will you play Frank Seravelli? We will use what you just said as the script and mix it up by portraying Frank as someone who is truthful.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Stop bringing facts into this discussion. It hurts my feelings.

They got's cowboy's too.

 

[TheLegend]

LOL i'm starting to think you were just doing a comedy bit all this time.

So,,,,, you're admitting that you can't debate what both, I and @Coyotedroppings said about your complete lack of real knowledge on TED.

 

[Ernie]

So,,,,, you're admitting that you can't debate what both, I and @Coyotedroppings said about your complete lack of real knowledge on TED.

It's delusional to think there wasn't a subsidy involved.

 

[aqib]

given that there seems to be come movement and everyone is expecting something to be announced soon, maybe its time for a new thread since this one is nearing page 80.

 

[GKJ]

More to the like..... Meruelo has to convince the league he has a solid plan in place ASAP or they'll start the ball rolling.

Strickland got yelled at, yes.

 

[TheLegend]

It's delusional to think there wasn't a subsidy involved.

Go point it out then. Otherwise you're more into pontificating hot air than anything.

The synopsis shows a long term net gain for Tempe after 35 years.

Right now the land does nothing but cost the city.

 

[TheLegend]

Strickland got yelled at, yes.

After he clarified it in a follow up tweet.

How many people even read that second part? I doubt many.

Now do you understand why Coyotes fans get up in arms over these things??

 

[Ernie]

Go point it out then. Otherwise you're more into pontificating hot air than anything.

The synopsis shows a long term net gain for Tempe after 35 years.

Right now the land does nothing but cost the city.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. I'm sure you'll die on this hill. Kinda sad, actually, to be in denial this long.

 

[KevFu]

I am not following this. How are the two mutually exclusive?

Unsold Mullet tickets could be sold for the next few weeks and then tickets for the Delta Center could be sold after an April announcement.

Yes, the window for Delta sales would be a couple months shorter, but that wouldn't necessarily cost more money (in real or nominal terms) than selling unsold Mullet tickets would generate.

The idea that the remaining money in Phoenix is "too important" to make an announcement now, because they'd lose ticket sales... but ticket sales in the tiny arena are so low that the team has to be moved ASAP makes no sense.

It can't be both. You'd want to maximize the amount of money you get of course, but the entire premise behind "the league" being fed up and wanting to move them is the revenue sharing burden: they can't sell enough tickets so we have to subsidize them.

But ST deposits collected NOW would be part of franchise revenue THIS season, with the balance the next; so you'd increase their revenue this season by adding in Salt Lake customers, which would reduce the burden of revenue sharing needed this year.

So for example, if they'd get $120m in PHX, and $200m in Salt Lake... instead of giving them $20m in RS this year, and none next year.... You move $30m from SLC to PHX via deposits on season-tickets. Then give them $10m in RS this year, and $5m next year. Saving everyone else $5m in revenue sharing.

 

[Edenjung]

@Ernie
Same could be said about you...

 

[Ernie]

@Ernie
Same could be said about you...

How am I in denial? I predicted this was going to be the path as soon as the referendum was announced. Nobody likes giving tax breaks to billionaires, especially not ones with as bad a reputation as Meruelo.

 

[Edenjung]

@Ernie

you don't provide any prove or source for any of your "predicitions".
So why would anyone take your word for truth?
Provide actual sources. Thats all people ask for.

 

[MNNumbers]

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. I'm sure you'll die on this hill. Kinda sad, actually, to be in denial this long.

Ernie....
I'm no Coyote fan. But I will say that, in this situation, what Bluebird was asking for was some help with the remediation of the contamination from the site. And, some deferred taxes. Every company coming to a large metro area asks for tax deferments. Manufacturing does....every large company does. The only thing different with the Coyotes was they were asking for a longer deferment.

As far as I remember, those were the only 'subsidies' that were being requested.

 

[TLEH]

In the movie, will you play Frank Seravelli? We will use what you just said as the script and mix it up by portraying Frank as someone who is truthful.

Never mind.. I understand now. Yeah Frank is a bit of a click bait artist lately.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. I'm sure you'll die on this hill. Kinda sad, actually, to be in denial this long.

What's even more sad is someone with no skin in the game obviously getting his rocks off on the misery of others. Anyone incapable of seeing the facts as they are when said facts are rubbed in said someone's nostrils, clearly isn't in it for the business interest.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. I'm sure you'll die on this hill. Kinda sad, actually, to be in denial this long.

“To be in denial this long”…. You realize this is thread number… uhhhh… a billion, right?

 

[Ernie]

Ernie....
I'm no Coyote fan. But I will say that, in this situation, what Bluebird was asking for was some help with the remediation of the contamination from the site. And, some deferred taxes. Every company coming to a large metro area asks for tax deferments. Manufacturing does....every large company does. The only thing different with the Coyotes was they were asking for a longer deferment.

As far as I remember, those were the only 'subsidies' that were being requested.

No, they were asking for no sales tax in the area as well as no property tax for the residences they were building for like 20 years or so. I'm not going to bother digging everything up again because it's been litigated to hell here but those are the facts.

I agree it's not uncommon for there to be some inducements in the Phoenix area but the size of these was pretty unprecedented.

 

[MNNumbers]

No, they were asking for no sales tax in the area as well as no property tax for the residences they were building for like 20 years or so. I'm not going to bother digging everything up again because it's been litigated to hell here but those are the facts.

I agree it's not uncommon for there to be some inducements in the Phoenix area but the size of these was pretty unprecedented.

Property tax.....as I said.

I don't remember the sales tax exemption.

 

[Ernie]

Property tax.....as I said.

I don't remember the sales tax exemption.

Here's a summary: Fine print shows: Coyotes’ privately funded arena could cost taxpayers over $500m