CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[sh724]

Modern arenas have more than a 30 year lifespan. These aren't the bare, practically disposable concrete shells containing section after identical section of identical seats found in the old buildings from the 70s and early 80s. They're much more robustly built and have fundamentally better skeletons for upgrading. Sure, the suites may get renovated periodically. And the scoreboards may get replaced with bigger, higher resolution ones (that, ironically, actually weigh less than he ones they're replacing). But renovation, not replacement, is the way these buildings are going.

Most of them do have lifespans longer than 30 years however the arenas that are 30ish years old that are still fully operational and not in the process of being replaced have had $100MM+ renovations, with something being significantly more than others). The useful life an arena isnt how long it can remain standing, its how long it can remain profitable and desireable.

Its much easier, and cheaper, to keep a concert venue up an running that a venue that houses NHL/NBA team(s)

 

[bleedblue94]

So what you’re admitting to here is facts don’t mean anything if they don’t fit whatever narrative you choose to believe.

It was well publicized here locally how Doan was pushed out under Barroway and Chayka. Fan reaction was swift and it was nasty towards the ownership to the point where Barroway had to apologize in a press conference for how it was handled.

that is a STRONG manipulation of my words. impressive. either that or you actually believe everything stated publicly is true. Do you believe everything stated publicly is true???

can we stop talking about doan barraway and chayka since we arent actually arguing anything there. you keep saying the same thing as me just in different words.

 

[Brodie]

Still have to think the original sin here was not keeping the Coyotes and Suns bundled from the start... I actually think this is a cautionary tale about split ownership in various markets, especially as there is a proliferation of arenas (eg. the Sixers going it alone)

 

[sawchuk1971]

is there a possiblity that scottsdale be a target?

 

[Boris Zubov]

Still have to think the original sin here was not keeping the Coyotes and Suns bundled from the start... I actually think this is a cautionary tale about split ownership in various markets, especially as there is a proliferation of arenas (eg. the Sixers going it alone)

In that case, the original sin happened before the Yotes moved the Valley. John Ziegler, bless his heart, adamantly said no when asked by Jerry Colangelo if the NHL was ever a possibility in Phoenix when building the America West Arena. Colangelo took him at face value & proceeded to build an asymmetrical arena without hockey as a consideration.

Plus the teams weren't really "bundled". The Suns were owned by Colangelo who controlled the building. The Yotes couldn't survive as tenant, so unless Colangelo bought them, eventually this saga still would've played out at some point. (Think of the entertainment all of us would've missed out on. Apologies to Yotes fans...none of this is enjoyable for them.)

 

[Stumbledore]

is there a possiblity that scottsdale be a target?

Every target is a possibility in the right hands, especially those needing clickbait.

But Scottsdale did pass up an earlier chance to have an NHL team and I don't think their outlook has improved after the rude chortling they did about Glendale.

 

[GreenHornet]

Still have to think the original sin here was not keeping the Coyotes and Suns bundled from the start... I actually think this is a cautionary tale about split ownership in various markets, especially as there is a proliferation of arenas (eg. the Sixers going it alone)

Take it from this Atlanta fan, bundling isn't always a good thing. In fact, it can be a VERY bad thing. #BurnInHellSeptocluster™

 

[PredsHead]

is there a possiblity that scottsdale be a target?

Probably not Scottsdale directly as this article which quotes several of their council members states there doesn't seem to be any open parcels of land or willingness of the city offer any incentives. However, I believe there are a couple of parcels of land which are on reservation land but adjacent to Scottsdale and have been mentioned as possible spots for the Coyotes.


Ortega ices idea of hockey in Scottsdale

 

[mouser]

In that case, the original sin happened before the Yotes moved the Valley. John Ziegler, bless his heart, adamantly said no when asked by Jerry Colangelo if the NHL was ever a possibility in Phoenix when building the America West Arena. Colangelo took him at face value & proceeded to build an asymmetrical arena without hockey as a consideration.

Plus the teams weren't really "bundled". The Suns were owned by Colangelo who controlled the building. The Yotes couldn't survive as tenant, so unless Colangelo bought them, eventually this saga still would've played out at some point. (Think of the entertainment all of us would've missed out on. Apologies to Yotes fans...none of this is enjoyable for them.)

Colangelo never really owned either the Suns or Diamondbacks. He was hired to be the GM of the Suns in their inaugural 1968 season with no background wealth, later becoming the “owner” in 1987 after assembling a group of majority investors to purchase the Suns.

Colangelo was always the “general managing partner“ with a small minority ownership share of the Suns and Diamondbacks.

 

[TheLegend]

that is a STRONG manipulation of my words. impressive.

No different than what you've been doing the entire time.

either that or you actually believe everything stated publicly is true. Do you believe everything stated publicly is true???

Do you NOT believe anything stated publicly?? So far I haven't seen evidence of the contrary.

can we stop talking about doan barraway and chayka since we arent actually arguing anything there. you keep saying the same thing as me just in different words.

Don't bring it up then.

 

[TheLegend]

Every target is a possibility in the right hands, especially those needing clickbait.

But Scottsdale did pass up an earlier chance to have an NHL team and I don't think their outlook has improved after the rude chortling they did about Glendale.

Scottsdale was leery of Steve Ellman having the financial strength in pulling off the Los Arcos project. Glendale's mayor at the time, wanted nothing better than to steal a project away from Scottsdale and turn the Loop101 corridor into the next major business/entertainment core in the valley.

Hindsight proved Scottsdale's insight was correct. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Brodie]

has there been any news about Mesa? It feels like there is radio silence here which is pretty wild considering how bad the headlines since the Tempe vote have been... I'd think the Yotes would want to be out there pushing the line that they have dozens of options

 

[Shwan]

has there been any news about Mesa? It feels like there is radio silence here which is pretty wild considering how bad the headlines since the Tempe vote have been... I'd think the Yotes would want to be out there pushing the line that they have dozens of options

The Coyotes chief propagandist has been on a European vacation for the last two weeks so once he comes back expect the "Everything is fine" articles to resume for the team.

 

[TheLegend]

The Coyotes chief propagandist has been on a European vacation for the last two weeks so once he comes back expect the "Everything is fine" articles to resume for the team.

If “chief propagandist” means “person with the most and deepest contacts within the franchise” then I can’t argue that.

 

[Shwan]

If “chief propagandist” means “person with the most and deepest contacts within the franchise” then I can’t argue that.

It's a shame he'll never use those contacts to hold the organization accountable for anything.

Something's gotta pay for those nice European vacations though I suppose.

 

[TheLegend]

It's a shame he'll never use those contacts to hold the organization accountable for anything.

Something's gotta pay for those nice European vacations though I suppose.

He’s been critical of the franchise on many occasions. Just not enough to your liking so everything he says in your mind is “fake news”.

 

[Shwan]

He’s been critical of the franchise on many occasions. Just not enough to your liking so everything he says in your mind is “fake news”.

When was the last time, in your opinion, he's been critical of the organization?

 

[Shwan]

Like clockwork.

The Coyotes cannot construct a sportsbook or residences on tribal land — two key revenue drivers of the proposed Tempe plan — but the team is still proceeding with discussions.

Coyotes eyeing multiple arena sites within population, corporate, wealth, season-ticket core - PHNX Sports

The Arizona Coyotes are mulling several sites for a new arena, multiple sources have confirmed to PHNX Sports.

www.gophnx.com

 

[TheLegend]

When was the last time, in your opinion, he's been critical of the organization?

Go look up him talking about the arena vote and how he was critical of the Coyotes starting late and not taking a proactive stance. Did it on social media AND the PHNX podcast.

But who cares?? It's certainly not going to matter to you.

Like clockwork.

Coyotes eyeing multiple arena sites within population, corporate, wealth, season-ticket core - PHNX Sports

The Arizona Coyotes are mulling several sites for a new arena, multiple sources have confirmed to PHNX Sports.

www.gophnx.com

Wait..... this is just an article pointing out possible locations.

Where's the "everything is okay" shtick you promised would be included????

I don't see Craig farting rainbows and unicorns in this piece. Just pointing out what the current options they are looking at and the pros and cons of each.

BTW.... this was the paragraph below the one you quoted...

One of the advantages of a Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community site is that it would afford the quickest construction timeline because the land requires less preparation so shovels could go in the ground quickly.

Seems timelines would a big deal here. And sportsbooks don't have to be built on the actual site. That particular site sits right on the reservation border and there's nothing precluding building one on a lot across the street.

 

[Shwan]

Did it on social media AND the PHNX podcast.

So he's complaining on his Twitter that has 23k followers? Show an example please?' Ill also take a time stamp on his Livestream that averages 500-1000 views.

Pretty convenient he gripes about the team there, and not on an actual by-line article from PHNX, you know, where Meruelo can threaten to sue him for defamation if he writes anything unflattering.

Where's the "everything is okay" shtick you promised would be included????

The part where he, and you, think either of those sites are viable is the "everything is okay schtick". Especially the part where you think the tribe would lease their land to someone who would just build a competing sportsbook "on a lot across the street."

 

[Skidooboy]

I wonder how much money has been lost since 97?

between all the owners, the league, the AZ and Glendale tax payers.....

I'm betting it's well over a billion in fact? I bet its closer to 3 by the time Glendale finally sees the end of that white elephant arena.

 

[LPHabsFan]

I wonder how much money has been lost since 97?

between all the owners, the league, the AZ and Glendale tax payers.....

I'm betting it's well over a billion in fact? I bet its closer to 3 by the time Glendale finally sees the end of that white elephant arena.

No I don't think it's that much but I would definitely say it's over 500 million especially if you include what Glendale has spent on it. I think the Coyotes debt sheet is definitely over 350 million.

 

[Skidooboy]

No I don't think it's that much but I would definitely say it's over 500 million especially if you include what Glendale has spent on it. I think the Coyotes debt sheet is definitely over 350 million.

lol that's not even close.

when Moyes went Bankrupt ,he filed documents that proved he'd lost 73 million over three years alone, and then next year he lost another 45million. thats already Almost Half of your prediction in just 4 years.
add in the suspected 10 mill/year in losses minimum most people estimate, ...and the Rev sharing, the cost to Glendale, who were waiving rent for years and paying to operate an empty arena.... and paying interest on bonds they had to sell to float this all.... the money the league spent to operate, the parade of clowns and idiots who invested only to fail and go broke....

you go back to 1997.....
it's a billion easy.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

lol that's not even close.

lol like you'd know lol

 

[Lady Stanley]

People need to except an expansion team, is needed to save the market.

Build an Arena and make a bid in 5-10 years.

Yotes have to be worth a billion.

Worst case scenario whoever buys yotes 2.0, will get a reduced expansion rate as it's returning to a market.

If you believe Arizona is worth saving and its lack of success is circumstantial , you believe it's worth coming back with an expansion franchise.

Yotes 1.0 have nothing that needs to be saved. No history of success, in fact nothing but bad memories.

Build the arena first, instead of the sideshow college arena.

Promise that the expansion fee back in the market will be the same as the sale price of the yotes.

In the past you'd call it putting a franchise in hiatus.

In this case it's much simpler, we'll be back bigger and better than ever.

The league should just accpet they're going to 36 teams within the decade.

Atlanta-Houston-Arizona and KansasCity/SLC/Toronto2/San Diego/Portland

The Yotes aren't on a life and death timeclock, provided people actually believe the market is worth saving.

Give QC the team now, solidify team valuations, give a bargaining chip to the NHL when the next national deal hits in Canada.

If PKP owner of TVASports has the nordiques he's given a massive incentive to bid for exclusive french rights to the Nordiques as he can promote his own team.

At this point it's already done. QC is ready for the team.

Atlanta-Houston-Arizona are waiting on arena construction.