CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheLegend]

Xavier Gutierrez is kind of guy that makes you understand why due diligence exists. But I do appreciate him laughing at the idea of NHL team in Reno. I find it noteworthy that Gutierrez said "Unfortunately, it had to go to the voters..." during his monologue. Unfortunate seems like a curious word to choose when describing the ability of voters to directly determine how their money is spent. But again, I appreciate him being so direct about how much easier it is to buy off a couple of city council members (cough, Gary Sherwood) than it is to convince a majority of the electorate that another hockey arena in the valley is a wise use of public funds.

I did not see any chryons with the hosts names - but in the few minutes I watched, I thought I heard them say the trollish fellow on the right was "Craig", which I assume to mean Craig Morgan. So that was good for a little chuckle. I heard rumors of AZ Atty General investigation into the City of Tempe potentially monitoring / geolocating opponents of the Tempe initiative. Of course, that was good for a large chuckle. Did Team Beavis make their way to Tempe City Hall? I do not want to drag the very serious megathread into such tabloid places, but that has to be one of the funnier spin out stories from this epic saga.

The "County Island" parcel is mildly intriguing. But only in a morbid "this might be the dumbest thing ever" kind of way. My understanding is that Meruelo only executed some form of LOI though. So its not like there is a large scale development project akin to the Tempe effort.

As always, it is a great joy to catch up on all things Coyote here at the HFBoards.

Hey CF.... LTNS.

No Team Beavis.

But there was a little "Clarkonomics" involved back prior to the referendum vote. For which karma (ie Worker Power) paid her returns going after something she and her fellow Glendale councilmembers had done similar to what Tempe did with TED) But I'm digressing now....

Yes.... that was Craig Morgan.

All we know about the LOI for land purchase is that it's in or next to Mesa. And Gutierrez mentioned that they currently have to wait 30-45 days before they can say anything "because of statutes". I took that as there is a municiality invoved with one of the locations they're looking at. It was really the only part of that "town hall" that perked my ears some.

Only other thing of note Gutierrez mentioned is they're still tracking for having all this resolved by the end of Q1 2024.

 

[aqib]

Is there a certain date where we can expect an update on what’s going on with arena location?

Two weeks

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Two weeks

Tony LeBlanc Seal of Approval

 

[aqib]

A county island is a piece of land that hasn't been claimed by a city municipality. They're called Islands because at this point most of these parcels are completely surrounded by city borders or in the case of this potential coyotes site it's sandwiched between Mesa borders and the Salt River Pima Indian Community Reservation borders.

As the name suggests, the land is only under the governance of the county and their laws/taxes. In most cases citizens on these islands have to contract their utilities (sewage, water) and emergency fire/medical either through the municipality they neighbor or private companies. The same goes with law enforcement as only the Sheriff's department has standing on the land.

This is just so bizare.

 

[Shwan]

It's one thing to have the infrastructure in place for producing content and another for getting carriers to take the content.

Stopped reading after this. Try again.

 

[Shwan]

This is just so bizare.

Can't lie, Arizona is a bizarre place a lot of the time.

 

[TheLegend]

Stopped reading after this. Try again.

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That's Las Vegas and they had 4 months (agreement announced in May, 2023), to put that together. They've had roughly 4 weeks with the Coyotes.... so far.

Only thing lacking with the Coyotes and that list is satellite distribution.

Even with the current limitations that need to be resolved... The Coyotes went from a reach of 900,000 housholds to 3.5 million.

So what it gets down to is Scripps getting its act together with the satellite distribution, and broadband streaming solution.

Now go back and try reading a little more.

 

[Shwan]

So what it gets down to is Scripps getting its act together with the satellite distribution, and broadband streaming solution.

I'll just quote another poster who put it more eloquently than me.

I know disingenuously trying to turn everything into a positive for the Yotes is your goal.

Isn't it Fascinating that after the Utah Jazz announced their new OTA broadcast set up yesterday the Coyotes are literally the ONLY team that's moved to OTA without a deal that includes satellite and streaming? The only team that comes remotely close are the Suns who are in final negotiations with DirecTV over their secondary channel that will air ~30 games + Mercury games, but after getting Dish that shouldn't be a problem.

It's not like they have to sell a boomer channel that shows McHale's Navy, Three's Company, Matlock and Designing women 99% of the time.

This has nothing to do with you lying about the Coyotes not having enough time to make a deal. It has everything to do with the Coyotes being a bad product and they couldn't get a better deal aside from the bone Scripps tossed them.

If someone as "illiterate" as me figured out the writing on the wall back in June, Then Xavier Gutierrez has zero excuses to why a streaming platform isn't up and running at the very least. But these are the same people who launched a failed online sports betting platform 6 months late so it's on brand at least.

I was making Hawkvision jokes about this a few months ago but leave it to the Meruelo brand to limbo under the extremely low expectations. I can't believe the Coyotes thought "just buy a antenna bro" was an acceptable answer. "3.5 Million Reach"

 

[PredsHead]

Doesn't sound like DirecTV will be carrying the channel the Coyotes are on any time soon.

 

[TheLegend]

Doesn't sound like DirecTV will be carrying the channel the Coyotes are on any time soon.

In listening to the clip, it's due to Scripps choosing AntennaTV as the delivery vehicle. Direct consideres it a "sub-channel" (or at least that's their excuse).

 

[Shwan]

Doesn't sound like DirecTV will be carrying the channel the Coyotes are on any time soon.

If only Xavier had more time to make a deal this could had all been averted!

 

[TheLegend]

I'll just quote another poster who put it more eloquently than me.

LOL!! I know LOLing in the forum is frowned on but quoting someone else out of context to score some points actually gave me a good chuckle.

Isn't it Fascinating that after the Utah Jazz announced their new OTA broadcast set up yesterday the Coyotes are literally the ONLY team that's moved to OTA without a deal that includes satellite and streaming? The only team that comes remotely close are the Suns who are in final negotiations with DirecTV over their secondary channel that will air ~30 games + Mercury games, but after getting Dish that shouldn't be a problem.

It's not like they have to sell a boomer channel that shows McHale's Navy, Three's Company, Matlock and Designing women 99% of the time.

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This has nothing to do with you lying about the Coyotes not having enough time to make a deal. It has everything to do with the Coyotes being a bad product and they couldn't get a better deal aside from the bone Scripps tossed them.

It's more like you purposely ignoring that part where the Suns had their new OTA agreement temporaily VOIDED by the bankruptcy judge handling Diamond. In spite of the Suns' contract with Diamond having ended.

But I guess with your swagger and bravado you could have strolled into court on the Coyotes behalf and told the judge that "I don't care if I still have multiple years left on my contract with Diamond, I went out and got a new deal now and am going to ignore this old one."

I know I'd be rolling on the floor.

If someone as "illiterate" as me figured out the writing on the wall back in June, Then Xavier Gutierrez has zero excuses to why a streaming platform isn't up and running at the very least. But these are the same people who launched a failed online sports betting platform 6 months late so it's on brand at least.

I was making Hawkvision jokes about this a few months ago but leave it to the Meruelo brand to limbo under the extremely low expectations. I can't believe the Coyotes thought "just buy a antenna bro" was an acceptable answer. "3.5 Million Reach"

And now you're patting yourself on the back now for figuring out something that everyone else knew.

You're really are funny guy.

 

[Shwan]

LOL!! I know LOLing in the forum is frowned on but quoting someone else out of context to score some points actually gave me a good chuckle.

It's literally the most in context thing possible right now lol.

I know disingenuously trying to turn everything into a positive for the Yotes is your goal. So implying that it was impossible to watch the Coyotes previously ('wasn't available anywhere! Not even on DirecTV!') to make it seem now like the day has been saved is the type of agenda driven blatant misinformation the BoH forum sadly is becoming more and more known for.

But, as you keep repeating that Fox Sports Arizona/Bally Sports Arizona wasn't, isn't, and hasn't been on DirecTV that in fact happens to not be the case, at all. DirecTV has long had Fox/Bally Sports Arizona and shown the Coyotes games. The channel is still on DirecTV currently and has been.

Source: Have DirecTV. Lived in AZ. Before/after AZ live(d) in WA and FOX/Bally Sports Arizona is the channel next to Root Sports NW so I see it on the guide near daily for well over a decade.

They were responding to you arguing (lying) that the* Coyotes weren't on DTV in the past (they were), and now the Coyotes won't be on DTV for the considerable future. Imagine that.

It's more like you purposely ignoring that part where the Suns had their new OTA agreement temporaily VOIDED by the bankruptcy judge handling Diamond. In spite of the Suns' contract with Diamond having ended.

Nah, It's just that in your true fashion you're bringing up stuff that has no bearing on the argument, and lying on top of it, as usual.

Diamond contends they still are under contract with the Suns until the 2022-23 NBA season is over. They contend that even though the Suns no longer need Bally Sports Arizona to broadcast games because TNT or ESPN/ABC will air remaining games until their playoff run is over, by going to Gray Television and Kiwse, Diamond Sports Group has first-right refusal and can match any deal offered to the Suns and Mercury while under contract.

The bankruptcy court judge overseeing the case, Christopher Lopez, said in May that the Suns and Mercury failed to respond to Diamond Sports’ letters stating interest in matching a new deal.

The deal was temporarily voided because of a matching clause the Suns didn't honor, not because they made another deal.

"any deal offered to the Suns and Mercury while under contract."

"While under contract"

Xavier is free to show us the old contract the Yotes have but I would imagine it would of been similar. I would further wager this is why he actually "couldn't negotiate" while the contract was still valid. The Coyotes were only getting piss poor offers because they are a bad product and had they gone back to Bally's with a terrible contract offer they were afraid they might actually match it and keep them locked in for more years.

And now you're patting yourself on the back now for figuring out something that everyone else knew.

You're really are funny guy.

Just like everyone knew Saharabets was going to bomb on arrival, or Tempe was going to vote no, right?

 

[Reaser]

In listening to the clip, it's due to Scripps choosing AntennaTV as the delivery vehicle. Direct consideres it a "sub-channel" (or at least that's their excuse).

This was known. I explained it earlier in the thread using the CW affiliate in Seattle as an example (CW isn't on DirecTV in Western WA because it's channel 4.2. It WAS on DirecTV when it was channel 11.)

I wouldn't say "that's their excuse." It's standard, they don't include sub-channels in the local channels.

 

[TheLegend]

This was known. I explained it earlier in the thread using the CW affiliate in Seattle as an example (CW isn't on DirecTV in Western WA because it's channel 4.2. It WAS on DirecTV when it was channel 11.)

I wouldn't say "that's their excuse." It's standard, they don't include sub-channels in the local channels.

Thanks. "Reason" would have been a better term to use.

Seems like there's a lot more shakeout coming as RSNs continue to fade.

They were responding to you arguing (lying) that the* Coyotes weren't on DTV in the past (they were), and now the Coyotes won't be on DTV for the considerable future. Imagine that.

Yep.... read a couple of other posts down and you'd see where I acknowledged it.

Nah, It's just that in your true fashion you're bringing up stuff that has no bearing on the argument, and lying on top of it, as usual.

It had all the bearing on it as you continue below.

The deal was temporarily voided because of a matching clause the Suns didn't honor, not because they made another deal.

"any deal offered to the Suns and Mercury while under contract."

"While under contract"

Xavier is free to show us the old contract the Yotes have but I would imagine it would of been similar. I would further wager this is why he actually "couldn't negotiate" while the contract was still valid.

The deal was voided.... temporarily or not, it was voided. As I said. You want to play the semantics game knock yourself out. I wasn't lying.

Bottom line remains that the Coyotes were still under contract with Bally's and couldn't just get a new one without Diamond agreeing to vacate the one in force.

The Coyotes were only getting piss poor offers because they are a bad product and had they gone back to Bally's with a terrible contract offer they were afraid they might actually match it and keep them locked in for more years.

This is just a bunch of rhetorical speculation on your part.

Just like everyone knew Saharabets was going to bomb on arrival, or Tempe was going to vote no, right?

More rhetoric for the audience.

 

[Shwan]

Yep.... read a couple of other posts down and you'd see where I acknowledged it.

Oh, so you suddenly remember the context now? That's super convenient.

The deal was voided.... temporarily or not, it was voided. As I said. You want to play the semantics game knock yourself out. I wasn't lying.

No, what you said was:

Note that the Suns contract had already ended with Bally's, yet Diamond had a clause in the agreement that allowed Diamond the right to match any competing contract the Suns/Mercury negotiated.

So the Suns go and get their new agreement... make the announcement.... then Diamond goes to the BK court and has the judge throw out that agreement because Diamond had that right to match and the Suns apparently didn't give them the chance.

Which is fundamentally false as I've proven. The deal struck between Gray and the Suns occured, wait for it:

"While under contract"

You trying to fundamentally change the framing of the Suns ruling isn't semantics. Had the Suns actually had waited until the contract had concluded, like you were trying (lying about) to imply, absolutely nothing would have happened because Bally's would have no standing. Had the Suns made a contingency deal with Gray, nothing would have happened, because the contract would only have gone into effect once the Bally's contract had concluded, and Bally's would have no standing.

That's a very far divide from the point you tried to make regarding the Suns, which was:

Imagine what Diamond could have done to them had they discovered the Coyotes were actively negotiating with Scripps.

We're yet again in a situation where the options are you attempted to lie, or you're completely ignorant of the facts of the situation. The benefit of the doubt can only been given so many times.

This is just a bunch of rhetorical speculation on your part.

Perhaps, deep down I am an optimist after all. I would hate for the truth to be that Xavier and the Coyotes were really too incompetent to make a contingency agreement with Scripps like the several other teams who are in the Coyotes exact situation, according to the President of Scripps.

“Every team associated with Bally is concerned about the future,“ Lawlor said. “As a result they are all doing contingency planning for the short term and the longer-term. We’ve been able to advance discussions about contingency plans all the way to actually written contracts that if Bally were to go away, we have agreements already in place that we would be the partner to be able to take over distribution and production and begin immediately."

Conversely, I would really hate for the truth to have been that the Coyotes knew from the beginning they were never going to get their product wider distribution because they knew Scripps in Arizona didn't have any spare independent stations and they wouldn't have been able to afford one anyways because Scripps is trying to push independent channels on distributors, using successful sports products.

I wouldn't say "that's their excuse." It's standard, they don't include sub-channels in the local channels.

Lawlor said the move of local sports to broadcast is going to continue and distributors have to get on board.

“Fans are going to demand that they have access to their sports,” he said. “They need to get on board.”

Of course, Scripps isn’t giving away those stations for free. “We’re not looking to break the bank, but we’re paying for the rights. We deserve to be compensated for those rights.

That would definitely be sad.

 

[PainForShane]

Oh, so you suddenly remember the context now? That's super convenient.



No, what you said was:



Which is fundamentally false as I've proven. The deal struck between Gray and the Suns occured, wait for it:

"While under contract"

You trying to fundamentally change the framing of the Suns ruling isn't semantics. Had the Suns actually had waited until the contract had concluded, like you were trying (lying about) to imply, absolutely nothing would have happened because Bally's would have no standing. Had the Suns made a contingency deal with Gray, nothing would have happened, because the contract would only have gone into effect once the Bally's contract had concluded, and Bally's would have no standing.

That's a very far divide from the point you tried to make regarding the Suns, which was:



We're yet again in a situation where the options are you attempted to lie, or you're completely ignorant of the facts of the situation. The benefit of the doubt can only been given so many times.



Perhaps, deep down I am an optimist after all. I would hate for the truth to be that Xavier and the Coyotes were really too incompetent to make a contingency agreement with Scripps like the several other teams who are in the Coyotes exact situation, according to the President of Scripps.



Conversely, I would really hate for the truth to have been that the Coyotes knew from the beginning they were never going to get their product wider distribution because they knew Scripps in Arizona didn't have any spare independent stations and they wouldn't have been able to afford one anyways because Scripps is trying to push independent channels on distributors, using successful sports products.





That would definitely be sad.

Weren't you the guy who kept trying to convince ppl that Desert Diamond is incredibly successful without the Coyotes for all sorts of reasons you made up, including that according to you Desert Diamond's future calendar is filled with events?

Sorry man -- not taking anything you're saying seriously. Also seems more than a bit weird for a guy with an AZ state flag as his avatar to choose to be such a hater toward the local sports team.

Let's go DBacks

 

[Shwan]

Weren't you the guy who kept trying to convince ppl that Desert Diamond is incredibly successful without the Coyotes for all sorts of reasons you made up, including that according to you Desert Diamond's future calendar is filled with events?

Sorry man -- not taking anything you're saying seriously. Also seems more than a bit weird for a guy with an AZ state flag as his avatar to choose to be such a hater toward the local sports team.

Let's go DBacks

I don't need to convince anyone.

Desert Diamond Arena, former Coyotes home, had record revenue year

Desert Diamond Arena, the former Glendale home of the Arizona Coyotes, said it had a record-breaking revenue year in 2022.

ktar.com

Edit: let's unpack this some more since I'm in no mood to suffer fools tonight.

No. I'm the guy that said

As such Desert Diamond Arena isn't hurting though.

and

The arena is fine without the Coyotes.

and that hurt your feelings apparently.

And so we slap fought for a few pages until you slinked away when I posted this:

ASM Global has successfully operated the city-owned venue for the past 6-1/2 years (taking over management July 1, 2016). 2022 marked Desert Diamond Arena’s best financial performance in the past 17 years, highlighted by multiple sold-out events including Pearl Jam, Eric Church, Grupo Firme, Alan Jackson, and two Billie Eilish concerts. 2023 is expected to surpass last year’s stellar fiscal record.

Now you're back months later, lying, saying I said the arena is wildly successful.

Feel free to edit your post.

Edit 2:

Per request, it appears @PainForShane isn't a liar, they are just unable to mentally comprehend there's a difference between my statements and a PR quote from ASM (or maybe they believe I work for ASM?)

For the Record Desert Diamond Arena didn't even make top 25 on Billboards 2022 box score for 15,001+ venues.

I never have believed the Arena is "incredibly successful without the Coyotes". It turns out when you sign terrible deals with Coyotes for so long it doesn't take much to break revenue records.

The club paid $500,000 in base rent to play in the arena and house its business headquarters there. The Coyotes retained 80% of their $2.1 million arena naming-rights fee with Gila River Resorts & Casino, along with 100% of ticket, game-day food and beverage, merchandise and parking sales. The team paid ASM a flat fee of $750,000 to sell and retain revenue from premium seating for all in-arena events and $820,000 to sell and retain revenue from all in-arena sponsorship inventory, such as dasherboards and interior and exterior signage.

I also, for the record, don't believe ASM is making much profit, if any profit, currently at Desert Diamond Arena. We all know there's a difference between revenue and profit!

But even though seats are priced high—on average, $160 a ticket—the team is still losing vast amounts of money, in excess of $10 million this season. This is the first of at least three seasons that will be played in Mullett Arena as the team tries to fund a nearby $2.1 billion arena and entertainment complex dubbed the TED.

Team’s financial losses “are in line with what they had been in the past for the team,” Gutierrez said as the Coyotes lost, 4-1, to the Pittsburgh Penguins Sunday night. He did not define an exact figure.

In the multimillion-dollar range?

“Yes,” he responded. “And I tip my hat to [owner] Alex Meruelo for sustaining that.”

More than $10 million?

“Yes, it’s substantial,” Gutierrez said. “We’re meeting our ticketing projections. We knew we’d be making more than our previous location [Glendale’s Gila River Arena]. We’re limited on premium seating. The challenge has been some of the ancillary rights, the merchandising. We’re learning how to pivot as far as finding that additional revenue.”

I'm truly sorry for this mix up and hope this clears things.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Also seems more than a bit weird for a guy with an AZ state flag as his avatar to choose to be such a hater toward the local sports team.

nothing weird about it. I live in Leafsland and I " choose to be such a hater toward the local sports team"

 

[TheGreenTBer]

nothing weird about it. I live in Leafsland and I " choose to be such a hater toward the local sports team"

I live in Boston and I hate the Patriots and Bruins with the fury of a thousand suns.

Granted, I'm a transplant here but still...

 

[PainForShane]

I live in Boston and I hate the Patriots and Bruins with the fury of a thousand suns.

Granted, I'm a transplant here but still...

That's wasn't my point -- my point has to do with the combination of viewpoint and avatar choice. For instance, here you are with an avatar pic featuring a 2 dimensional Link. Do you hate 2D, or even 3D Zelda games with the fury of a thousand suns? I would assume not. That was my point. Not sure how it could be this badly misunderstood by multiple independent ppl, esp since the entire thought was accurately blockquoted in its entirety. Who cares either way I just think it's extremely odd, that's all.

***

Anyway speaking of blockquotes @Shwan in his above message said the following.

2022 marked Desert Diamond Arena’s best financial performance in the past 17 years, highlighted by multiple sold-out events including Pearl Jam, Eric Church, Grupo Firme, Alan Jackson, and two Billie Eilish concerts. 2023 is expected to surpass last year’s stellar fiscal record.

Upon review, it is completely reasonable to summarize the bolded statements as an argument saying that Desert Diamond is fiscally stellar / ie incredibly successful financially – what else can it possibly mean to ‘surpass (a) stellar fiscal record’? smh.

So no, I am not lying @Shwan, and furthermore, I don’t think any reasonable person would accuse me of lying. Which is part of the reason that imo not taking anything you are saying seriously seems like a good decision.

Feel free to edit your post.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

That's wasn't my point -- my point has to do with the combination of viewpoint and avatar choice. For instance, here you are with an avatar pic featuring a 2 dimensional Link. Do you hate 2D, or even 3D Zelda games with the fury of a thousand suns? I would assume not. That was my point. Not sure how it could be this badly misunderstood by multiple independent ppl, esp since the entire thought was accurately blockquoted in its entirety. Who cares either way I just think it's extremely odd, that's all.

I was just responding to his post; I wasn't intending to imply I disagreed with you at all because I absolutely do think you have a valid point.

OT but there are some Zelda games that do suck...they are rare collector's items made for a long-dead console and spawned a legion of memes.

 

[PainForShane]

I was just responding to his post; I wasn't intending to imply I disagreed with you at all because I absolutely do think you have a valid point.

OT but there are some Zelda games that do suck...they are rare collector's items made for a long-dead console and spawned a legion of memes.

Hehe.

You know what's funny is I had a nephew that loved this game -- which makes sense I guess, if multiple adults can cheer for teams as sorry as the Yotes, kids should be able to cheer for their favorite blond elf-wannabe even if all he's doing is shooting random things.

In other news, am currently reading a book about Helium. I can't put it down

 

[TheGreenTBer]

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Hehe.

You know what's funny is I had a nephew that loved this game -- which makes sense I guess, if multiple adults can cheer for teams as sorry as the Yotes, kids should be able to cheer for their favorite blond elf-wannabe even if all he's doing is shooting random things.

In other news, am currently reading a book about Helium. I can't put it down

STEALING THIS DAD JOKE

 

[MeHateHe]

In other news, am currently reading a book about Helium. I can't put it down

We also would have accepted "it's a real gas."

He He He