CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheGreenTBer]

Ha, this honestly made me laugh.

And then because of your avatar I also imagined your definitely not kind of racist grandpa also yelling at people because "kids these days" have only played Breath of Wild / Tears of the Kingdom instead of the 'far superior' Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time. And now I am laughing some more.

Glad / kinda sad we've moved on from discussing how quantum theory relates to classical mechanics (or doesn't). But at least now everyone can enjoy the humor

Dude I am so down for more physics talk tbh

 

[PainForShane]

Dude I am so down for more physics talk tbh

BAHAHAHA. If only.

Edit -- idk how closely you followed the aftermath of that (still buried somewhere in this thread). I was about to poke my eyes out when multiple people came after me continuing to argue against the fundamental principle of hypothesis testing (ie all of science). Funny in hindsight but my god what the actual f***.

Making jokes about Zelda is way better =D

 

[eojsmada]

City residents have very little influence on what happens on a county island. (See Glendale v Tonoho O’odham)

Other than taking it to court and then they risk of having to take on the brunt of the court costs. Especially if they lose.

It all depends on how the land is zoned. If it is through Maricopa County, then the "neighbors" involved can still show up to the zoning meeting and raise a stink and make the county think twice about whether it wants to approve the zoning change.

If the zoning request is through the city (Mesa, Scottsdale, etc) then it goes through the city first before the county or state. The zoning change is filed and made public record, then a notice is posted publicly (usually in the way of physical signs on the site and local newspapers) whenever the proposed zoning change is to be brought before the zoning commission, to allow for the public to make their opinions known about the proposed change after a number of days (whatever is the standard amount of time as per the local laws...usually 30-90 days).

Obviously the Coyotes would love to argue that any multi-use zoning would allow them to do what they want. But it's not always that simple with large projects.

 

[BAdvocate]

The song was recorded in 1986 so the Yotes have at least 10 more years.

 

[TheLegend]

It all depends on how the land is zoned. If it is through Maricopa County, then the "neighbors" involved can still show up to the zoning meeting and raise a stink and make the county think twice about whether it wants to approve the zoning change.

If the zoning request is through the city (Mesa, Scottsdale, etc) then it goes through the city first before the county or state. The zoning change is filed and made public record, then a notice is posted publicly (usually in the way of physical signs on the site and local newspapers) whenever the proposed zoning change is to be brought before the zoning commission, to allow for the public to make their opinions known about the proposed change after a number of days (whatever is the standard amount of time as per the local laws...usually 30-90 days).

Obviously the Coyotes would love to argue that any multi-use zoning would allow them to do what they want. But it's not always that simple with large projects.

They can raise all the stink they want. Counties aren’t beholding to cities or their residents. A resident of the county can.

But the threshold for persuing a county referendum is usually much higher (as in more expensive) than what a city would be. And most county residents usually aren’t favorable to cities trying to dictate to them.

If they want to pursue it in the courts they can. But there are the caveats to that as I described

 

[aqib]

Every where you go there's always a cohort of "not in my backyard" morons.

Are they always morons though? On the one hand when I was in grad school in NY people in the neighborhood used to hate everything the school did, including tearing down its own buildings to build new ones in their place as if the neighborhood would stay stagnant if the school wasn't there. They also complained about a campus bus service that shuttled people who lived in dorms further away from the main campus because of noise. They were literally saying that the bus was creating too much noise. In NYC.

On the other hand if you bought a home in a sleepy suburb and someone decided to build an entertainment district in your sleepy suburb are you really a moron for not wanting that? Like are the people in Arlington Heights who are opposing the Bears stadium plan really morons for not wanting an 80K stadium and the associated crowds coming to your town every time there is an event? Even if you love football and the Bears you might still not want that where you live.

 

[Stumbledore]

Are they always morons though? On the one hand when I was in grad school in NY people in the neighborhood used to hate everything the school did, including tearing down its own buildings to build new ones in their place as if the neighborhood would stay stagnant if the school wasn't there. They also complained about a campus bus service that shuttled people who lived in dorms further away from the main campus because of noise. They were literally saying that the bus was creating too much noise. In NYC.

On the other hand if you bought a home in a sleepy suburb and someone decided to build an entertainment district in your sleepy suburb are you really a moron for not wanting that? Like are the people in Arlington Heights who are opposing the Bears stadium plan really morons for not wanting an 80K stadium and the associated crowds coming to your town every time there is an event? Even if you love football and the Bears you might still not want that where you live.

Agreed, not every NIMBY is a moron. I was using inaccurate shorthand to label that small group of people who always want everything to remain the same; as opposed to that strange movement which wants to restore America to the 50s and 60s.

 

[aqib]

Agreed, not every NIMBY is a moron. I was using inaccurate shorthand to label that small group of people who always want everything to remain the same; as opposed to that strange movement which wants to restore America to the 50s and 60s.

Didn't anyone tell you that you should never generalize. All generalizations are false.

 

[Shwan]

Gonna be awkward if Mesa goes to refendum to deny Meruelo emergency services

ARS 11-251.12

A county that has a population of more than one million five hundred thousand persons and that has a county island that does not form a county island fire district may enter into an intergovernmental agreement with a municipality or municipalities for fire protection and emergency medical services in that county island.

Trying to build this on a County Island would be on point for the Meruelo brand.

 

[BMN]

Are they always morons though? On the one hand when I was in grad school in NY people in the neighborhood used to hate everything the school did, including tearing down its own buildings to build new ones in their place as if the neighborhood would stay stagnant if the school wasn't there. They also complained about a campus bus service that shuttled people who lived in dorms further away from the main campus because of noise. They were literally saying that the bus was creating too much noise. In NYC.

On the other hand if you bought a home in a sleepy suburb and someone decided to build an entertainment district in your sleepy suburb are you really a moron for not wanting that? Like are the people in Arlington Heights who are opposing the Bears stadium plan really morons for not wanting an 80K stadium and the associated crowds coming to your town every time there is an event? Even if you love football and the Bears you might still not want that where you live.

Everyone who lives in a tax district where there isn't a stadium is basically a NIMBY until proven otherwise. When you say to someone "Let's turn this sleepy district you're living in around!," it's a bit of slap in the face to that person as though they don't already voluntarily live there because they like that it's sleepy. It's often this arrogant assumption: "But don't you want all this hustle and bustle?"

But then again, it serves up an ethical debate about how wide a swath of geography you should ask anyone to chip in something. For e.g., I'm never bothered by a NIMBY type who lives in a middle-of-nowhere-suburb adjacent to an only-slightly-less-middle-of-nowhere town. In that scenario, everyone is kind of all agreeing that there are certain amenities we all just aren't going to have.

The NIMBY that annoys me is the one that loudly professes their love for living in a major metro area and expects, nay sometimes demands, amenities like pro sports to make said metro area "a real city".....but then doesn't want to volunteer their specific neighbourhood for it, nor volunteer any solutions to ease traffic to/from said neighbourhood and in many cases expects someone else to pay for it.

I often ask people like this: "Do you want to live in a city or not? Because there are 56 counties in Montana that would be happy to have you..."

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Everyone who lives in a tax district where there isn't a stadium is basically a NIMBY until proven otherwise. When you say to someone "Let's turn this sleepy district you're living in around!," it's a bit of slap in the face to that person as though they don't already voluntarily live there because they like that it's sleepy. It's often this arrogant assumption: "But don't you want all this hustle and bustle?"

But then again, it serves up an ethical debate about how wide a swath of geography you should ask anyone to chip in something. For e.g., I'm never bothered by a NIMBY type who lives in a middle-of-nowhere-suburb adjacent to an only-slightly-less-middle-of-nowhere town. In that scenario, everyone is kind of all agreeing that there are certain amenities we all just aren't going to have.

The NIMBY that annoys me is the one that loudly professes their love for living in a major metro area and expects, nay sometimes demands, amenities like pro sports to make said metro area "a real city".....but then doesn't want to volunteer their specific neighbourhood for it, nor volunteer any solutions to ease traffic to/from said neighbourhood and in many cases expects someone else to pay for it.

I often ask people like this: "Do you want to live in a city or not? Because there are 56 counties in Montana that would be happy to have you..."

Well said.

 

[Llama19]

Arizona Coyotes president and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez answers TV, arena questions

Arizona Coyotes president and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez joins the PHNX Coyotes Podcast live in studio to answer questions about arena plans, the new TV deal, Mullett Arena, future broadcast plans and much more!

0:00 Intro
2:30 Updates on the TV deal
6:19 Why not follow the Suns or Dbacks deal?
8:20 Feedback Coyotes received with the new deal
16:09 Streaming numbers
20:30 Where you can watch the Coyotes publicly
25:00 Any further development on land options?
31:17 Reno
35:10 Arena issue
38:52 Campaign comments
42:18 How will the Coyotes show support for the LGBTQ+ community

Source (Video): www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTERCr96LdA

 

[Shwan]

Arizona Coyotes president and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez answers TV, arena questions

Arizona Coyotes president and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez joins the PHNX Coyotes Podcast live in studio to answer questions about arena plans, the new TV deal, Mullett Arena, future broadcast plans and much more!

0:00 Intro
2:30 Updates on the TV deal
6:19 Why not follow the Suns or Dbacks deal?
8:20 Feedback Coyotes received with the new deal
16:09 Streaming numbers
20:30 Where you can watch the Coyotes publicly
25:00 Any further development on land options?
31:17 Reno
35:10 Arena issue
38:52 Campaign comments
42:18 How will the Coyotes show support for the LGBTQ+ community

Source (Video): www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTERCr96LdA

Interesting how the the Coyotes want to say this TV deal was because they were limited and still under contract with* Bally's When Scripps' president is saying publicly they have several contingency contracts in place with teams that are currently under Bally's.

“Every team associated with Bally is concerned about the future,“ Lawlor said. “As a result they are all doing contingency planning for the short term and the longer-term. We’ve been able to advance discussions about contingency plans all the way to actually written contracts that if Bally were to go away, we have agreements already in place that we would be the partner to be able to take over distribution and production and begin immediately.”

 

[TheLegend]

Lawlor was speaking not just of the Coyotes.

Lawlor also said this in the same article…

Lawlor also claimed that some distributors are pushing back about carrying independent and digital networks airing local sports, despite many of those same distributors cutting ties with RSNs due to exorbitant pricing in recent years.

The Coyotes were indeed in danger of having their coverage go dark at any time, even with the contract they had.

Bally’s Sports Arizona ceased operations as of yesterday.

 

[Shwan]

Lawlor was speaking not just of the Coyotes.

Lawlor also said this in the same article…



The Coyotes were indeed in danger of having their coverage go dark at any time, even with the contract they had.

Bally’s Sports Arizona ceased operations as of yesterday.

Of course he's talking about other teams. That's the point. Those other teams apparently have full contingency contracts with Scripps while still under contract with Bally's, according to Lawlor.

So why is Xavier saying he couldn't talk numbers or channels with Scripps while they were under contract with Bally's?

 

[1CasualFan]

Arizona Coyotes president and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez answers TV, arena questions

Arizona Coyotes president and CEO Xavier A. Gutierrez joins the PHNX Coyotes Podcast live in studio to answer questions about arena plans, the new TV deal, Mullett Arena, future broadcast plans and much more!

0:00 Intro
2:30 Updates on the TV deal
6:19 Why not follow the Suns or Dbacks deal?
8:20 Feedback Coyotes received with the new deal
16:09 Streaming numbers
20:30 Where you can watch the Coyotes publicly
25:00 Any further development on land options?
31:17 Reno
35:10 Arena issue
38:52 Campaign comments
42:18 How will the Coyotes show support for the LGBTQ+ community

Source (Video): www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTERCr96LdA

Xavier Gutierrez is kind of guy that makes you understand why due diligence exists. But I do appreciate him laughing at the idea of NHL team in Reno. I find it noteworthy that Gutierrez said "Unfortunately, it had to go to the voters..." during his monologue. Unfortunate seems like a curious word to choose when describing the ability of voters to directly determine how their money is spent. But again, I appreciate him being so direct about how much easier it is to buy off a couple of city council members (cough, Gary Sherwood) than it is to convince a majority of the electorate that another hockey arena in the valley is a wise use of public funds.

I did not see any chryons with the hosts names - but in the few minutes I watched, I thought I heard them say the trollish fellow on the right was "Craig", which I assume to mean Craig Morgan. So that was good for a little chuckle. I heard rumors of AZ Atty General investigation into the City of Tempe potentially monitoring / geolocating opponents of the Tempe initiative. Of course, that was good for a large chuckle. Did Team Beavis make their way to Tempe City Hall? I do not want to drag the very serious megathread into such tabloid places, but that has to be one of the funnier spin out stories from this epic saga.

The "County Island" parcel is mildly intriguing. But only in a morbid "this might be the dumbest thing ever" kind of way. My understanding is that Meruelo only executed some form of LOI though. So its not like there is a large scale development project akin to the Tempe effort.

As always, it is a great joy to catch up on all things Coyote here at the HFBoards.

 

[MNNumbers]

Xavier Gutierrez is kind of guy that makes you understand why due diligence exists. But I do appreciate him laughing at the idea of NHL team in Reno. I find it noteworthy that Gutierrez said "Unfortunately, it had to go to the voters..." during his monologue. Unfortunate seems like a curious word to choose when describing the ability of voters to directly determine how their money is spent. But again, I appreciate him being so direct about how much easier it is to buy off a couple of city council members (cough, Gary Sherwood) than it is to convince a majority of the electorate that another hockey arena in the valley is a wise use of public funds.

I did not see any chryons with the hosts names - but in the few minutes I watched, I thought I heard them say the trollish fellow on the right was "Craig", which I assume to mean Craig Morgan. So that was good for a little chuckle. I heard rumors of AZ Atty General investigation into the City of Tempe potentially monitoring / geolocating opponents of the Tempe initiative. Of course, that was good for a large chuckle. Did Team Beavis make their way to Tempe City Hall? I do not want to drag the very serious megathread into such tabloid places, but that has to be one of the funnier spin out stories from this epic saga.

The "County Island" parcel is mildly intriguing. But only in a morbid "this might be the dumbest thing ever" kind of way. My understanding is that Meruelo only executed some form of LOI though. So its not like there is a large scale development project akin to the Tempe effort.

As always, it is a great joy to catch up on all things Coyote here at the HFBoards.

1CF,

Are you saying that Gutierrez doesn't impress you at all? And, that he is mostly a PR guy for Meruelo's organization?

And, please tell us more about your thoughts on the County Island.

Thanks

 

[1CasualFan]

1CF,

Are you saying that Gutierrez doesn't impress you at all? And, that he is mostly a PR guy for Meruelo's organization?

And, please tell us more about your thoughts on the County Island.

Thanks

He was not tasked with impressing me. So that is not a very good metric to use here. The Coyotes have already brought us Mr. LeBlanc - using that standard, Gutierrez is legitimately a genius. I have not looked at the County Island at all, so I have nothing of value to offer. I could make a megathread post anyway - as that is usually the baseline for our colleagues commenting here - but I'll go ahead and say that I do not know.

 

[1CasualFan]

So this is a whole lot of not a whole lot. I reckon Ron Tapscott decided to climb up on his soapbox again. He's more or less the Tempe version of Ken Jones. The author submitted questions via email to the city and you can see their replies (in bold) here.

Tempe answers AG investigation

www.documentcloud.org

Ching's statement

www.documentcloud.org

Ahhh, that makes much more sense. The thing about rumors is they often end up being TMZ stuff. Great sourcing here, Legend. Cheers.

 

[bleedblue94]

Hearing gutierrez make comments about someone (Dbacks) not getting payment in season was kind of ironic after the issues in Glendale...

 

[Shwan]

I have not looked at the County Island at all, so I have nothing of value to offer. I could make a megathread post anyway - as that is usually the baseline for our colleagues commenting here - but I'll go ahead and say that I do not know.

A county island is a piece of land that hasn't been claimed by a city municipality. They're called Islands because at this point most of these parcels are completely surrounded by city borders or in the case of this potential coyotes site it's sandwiched between Mesa borders and the Salt River Pima Indian Community Reservation borders.

As the name suggests, the land is only under the governance of the county and their laws/taxes. In most cases citizens on these islands have to contract their utilities (sewage, water) and emergency fire/medical either through the municipality they neighbor or private companies. The same goes with law enforcement as only the Sheriff's department has standing on the land.

Alternatively there are mechanisms in place for residents of these islands and municipalities to agree to annexation and the parcel becomes part of the city.

(I really hope we get to experience this as the next chapter of the Coyotes' journey as it'll beat trying to build* on the reservation by a "county" mile for the entertainment value.)

 

[Apex Predator]

Is there a certain date where we can expect an update on what’s going on with arena location?

 

[Stumbledore]

Is there a certain date where we can expect an update on what’s going on with arena location?

No.

 

[sh724]

Seems typical of how the Left operates be it local...state-wide...or federal...

This is absolutely chilling...

What possible reason would the City...and by rote...the Coyotes organization have in identifying opponents...

Is it to create a sort of "Black Book" of enemies for possible intimidation and/or retribution should they lose the Referendum...and...of course...they did...

So...if you were against the proposal...given the climate and weaponization of government...against the citizenry...who disagree with whatever ideologies, edicts, or policies...you can find yourself being targeted by governmental agencies, tax assessors, the IRS, your bank, your employer, woke clientele, by social media platforms and so on...

Good for Mr Tapscott for going after them...

Since they were using geolocating its completely possible they were tracking those outside of Tempe who were trying to influence the vote.

We all know the airport was against the project. Using an outside group to track negative information and see if any was coming from PHX (or Glendale) could have been advantageous to Tempe

 

[TheLegend]

Of course he's talking about other teams. That's the point. Those other teams apparently have full contingency contracts with Scripps while still under contract with Bally's, according to Lawlor.

It's one thing to have the infrastructure in place for producing content and another for getting carriers to take the content.

With Vegas they took over from ATT who simply wanted out. Then they got the WNBA, which also had nothing tied to them.

Which leads to the Coyotes.....

So why is Xavier saying he couldn't talk numbers or channels with Scripps while they were under contract with Bally's?

Because they couldn't.

Note that the Suns contract had already ended with Bally's, yet Diamond had a clause in the agreement that allowed Diamond the right to match any competing contract the Suns/Mercury negotiated.

So the Suns go and get their new agreement... make the announcement.... then Diamond goes to the BK court and has the judge throw out that agreement because Diamond had that right to match and the Suns apparently didn't give them the chance.

And like Gutierrez said.... that Suns ruling threw everyone for a loop. The Coyotes were still under contract with Bally's for multiple years. Even if they knew BSAZ was more tha likely going to go under having already lost the DBacks and Suns they were still obligated to Bally's.

Imagine what Diamond could have done to them had they discovered the Coyotes were actively negotiating with Scripps.