CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheLegend]

Where was this spate of investors and multiple investment firms when Alex could have built his own arena without tapping into the public purse?

I'm sure the university will not have to pay one dollar to construct the arena. I'm sure there will be other aspects that Alex wants the university to contribute towards.

He wasn’t tapping into anyone’s purse with TED. Anyone who read the documents I posted links to could see that for themselves.

Also… Wouldn’t be surprised if some of the same investors he had lined up for TED are involved in this.

Some of the articles linked to my posts above cover much of it. I have one more I’ll post next…

But in short… UNR’s basketball team will be strictly a tenant. Much like the Coyotes were in Glendale.

Since I worked there in the 80’s I have some knowledge of Reno and that property. It hasn’t changed much in all these years other than some internal remodeling and rebranding.

It’s three times the size of TED, sits right off the north end of Reno International Airport (the ILS equipment resides on his tower, seen it first hand). And right off the I-80 and I-580/US395 freeways.

Reno has two arena type venues (Lawler and the Convention Center). Both venues are similar in size but well over 40 years old and not really updatable. They really need a modern facility in that city.

UNR plays at Lawler now. The women’s will remain there.

The arena will cost around $400 million (TED was projected to cost $700M)

I could add more but and leave it with this article..

Bringing Las Vegas to Reno: Why Alex Meruelo is betting $1 billion on the BLC

Alex Meruelo owns a major property in Las Vegas and a major property in Reno. He knows big when he sees big. And the $1 billion entertainment district at the GS

nevadasportsnet.com

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Hello!
@TheLegend .

At least.. Nobody tapping here. Thoughts on state/territory? 3X size is... Ugh.
Lawler and convention ARE like 39 err 41 years.
I like.. $ will be larger. Happy Friday.

 

[TheLegend]

Hello!
@TheLegend .

At least.. Nobody tapping here. Thoughts on state/territory? 3X size is... Ugh.
Lawler and convention ARE like 39 err 41 years.
I like.. $ will be larger. Happy Friday.

When I say 3x the size property there is slightly over 140 acres. TED was roughly 43 acres (IIRC).

The “lake” there is original to the property and served as part of the fire suppression system (even the pool there could be used for that purpose).

From what I can tell from photos from over the years not much has changed other than the usual rebranding/remodeling you’d expect.

Before they built the National Bowling Stadium downtown there were plans to build a similar facility out in the NW corner of the property. But it got nixed when Bally’s bought it from MGM.

Lots of good memories (and a couple not so good) from my time there.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

When I say 3x the size property there is slightly over 140 acres. TED was roughly 43 acres (IIRC).

The “lake” there is original to the property and served as part of the fire suppression system (even the pool there could be used for that purpose).

From what I can tell from photos from over the years not much has changed other than the usual rebranding/remodeling you’d expect.

Before they built the National Bowling Stadium downtown there were plans to build a similar facility out in the NW corner of the property. But it got nixed when Bally’s bought it from MGM.

Lots of good memories (and a couple not so good) from my time there.

Lol.. You had me at mgm sale. I didn't know that. Poor research on my part.
Not alot has changed no..
Than is for memory jog

 

[Ernie]

Wasn't Meruelo given a low ranking for his financial ability to build the arena in Tempe when they evaluated his proposal? And now he's going to build 2 entertainment complexes?

Selling the team will certainly free up some cash...

 

[oldunclehue]

Wasn't Meruelo given a low ranking for his financial ability to build the arena in Tempe when they evaluated his proposal? And now he's going to build 2 entertainment complexes?

Selling the team will certainly free up some cash...

@TheLegend with the amount of money it looks like will be going into the Reno project, all "private" funding. Does he have the financial backing to do two large projects in two states that will cost likely over $5 billion when both are said and done.

His networth is $2 billion, and in the current economic state of the country....can he pull off these two major projects?

 

[TheLegend]

At the final city council meeting approving TED, Meruelo was in possession of no less than 7 letters from nationally known banks approving enough lines of credit to complete Phase 1. Each one was verified by city staff and at least two council members.

It was a requirement Tempe demanded and was outlined in the documents provided on the city's website (if anyone had bothered reading them).

Standard and Poors never supplied their methodolgy behind their "rating" they supplied to Lauren Kuby. As far as anyone knows they went by what media accounts that was available (or even what Kuby had suppled them.)

Meruelo's companies are all privately owned so the financials are not public. The city of Tempe was able to see them (another condition in the DDA).

So YMMV.

@TheLegend with the amount of money it looks like will be going into the Reno project, all "private" funding. Does he have the financial backing to do two large projects in two states that will cost likely over $5 billion when both are said and done.

His networth is $2 billion, and in the current economic state of the country....can he pull off these two major projects?

It's a good question and one of the first things I thought of. According to the media accounts.... this Reno project has a 10 year timeline with the arena being one of the first items completed (by 2026). There are multiple private entities involved in the financing. No idea who these other investors are other than it is NOT the University of Nevada, nor are the Coyotes involved.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Standard and Poors never supplied their methodology behind their "rating" they supplied to Lauren Kuby. As far as anyone knows they went by what media accounts that was available (or even what Kuby had suppled them.)

Meruelo's companies are all privately owned so the financials are not public. The city of Tempe was able to see them (another condition in the DDA).

So YMMV.

** Disclaimer - This is just for consumption by the general audience only. This is in no way to be determined as a drive-by swipe at TL or the Coyote faithful **

FWIW - S&P never supplies their methodology. It's expected by S&P that the industry, the market, and the CRA hemisphere already know their ratings process beforehand.

Especially a touchy subject, with regards to their name and methodology, ever since the 2011 AAA downgrade of the US and France's LCR

Carry on

 

[Shwan]

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman: Coyotes’ arena situation ‘on verge’ of being resolved

"They are in the process of exploring a number of parcels of land that can host an arena and entertainment retail district project[...]"

www.abc15.com

 

[TheLegend]

ABC15 only reprinted part of the interview. The full interview with Bettman is actually here.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/10/03/nhl-commissioner-gary-bettman-coyotes-arena.html?ana=knxv

 

[hammer42]

Just end it already the Coyotes are roadkill in Arizona nobody wants them there Glendale kick them out Tempe said no & expect Mesa will also say no .

Really who wants a team that can't pay there bills & if Mesa is dumb enough to let them build that arena that means 6 more years at Mullet arena if you include this season if you do the math they can only make 31 million dollars each of the next 6 seasons then you add 61 million dollar cap hit & you understand this is if everything goes perfect the coyotes are still going to lose a min. of $200. 000000 dollars over 6 seasons & that is everything goes right but we are talking the coyotes nothing goes right . MOVE THEM NOW

 

[ponder719]

ABC15 only reprinted part of the interview. The full interview with Bettman is actually here.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/10/03/nhl-commissioner-gary-bettman-coyotes-arena.html?ana=knxv

Does the full interview materially change the context of the excerpts ABC posted? I don't want to assume I'm getting the full story from the free piece, but I'm not inclined to pay $4 to hear more from Gary Bettman, of all people.

 

[Shwan]

Does the full interview materially change the context of the excerpts ABC posted? I don't want to assume I'm getting the full story from the free piece, but I'm not inclined to pay $4 to hear more from Gary Bettman, of all people.

The only thing the full interview really adds is that Gary confirms the Coyotes are losing $10,000,000+ a year at Mullet but that's a Coyotes problem because revenues for sharing are actually improved from Glendale.

They’re currently in Mullett Arena, which is a 4,500-seat building. That shows you how committed Alex Meruelo is to the market because economically it doesn't work. If you've ever been to a game there, it's a lot of fun. It's a unique experience, but economically it doesn't work long term. It's not obviously a major-league facility, but as an interim step, it's been a great solution. ASU has been terrific in terms of cooperating. But there's a cost to that of tens of millions of dollars, and Alex Meruelo is absorbing that loss in the interim because he believes in the Arizona market and wants a long-term solution for the Coyotes.

What’s the impact of that situation on overall league revenue? We’re at about $6 billion, so it’s not material. And by the way, the club economically is doing better than it was in Glendale, which tells you about how out of touch the Glendale building was and the location not being suitable. So, at the end of the day, in terms of [hockey-related revenues], there's actually an increase there, and the losses don't go into HRR. It's gross revenues, and the gross revenues are higher.

 

[hammer42]

Gary Bettmen is not very good at math it shows the coyotes can only make 31 million dollars a season a mullet arena & that is if they sell out every game & do really good on merchandise sales yet they still got overhead & 61 million dollar cap hit the math shows Gary is lying & the coyotes will continue to lose money even if they get arena built in Mesa & by then the coyotes will be close or even over billion dollars in the hole & Mesa got to think is it worth building arena for a team that can't draw crowds & can't pay it's bills .

 

[Stumbledore]

The only thing the full interview really adds is that Gary confirms the Coyotes are losing $10,000,000+ a year at Mullet but that's a Coyotes problem because revenues for sharing are actually improved from Glendale. ..... "better than it was in Glendale, which tells you about how out of touch the Glendale building was and the location not being suitable."

The building was out of touch? I understand all the arguments ad nauseum about location, but "out of touch"?

Anyone want to decipher for me what the Little Bastard was talking about?

 

[PCSPounder]

Angrier at UN moving basketball games that far off campus, not just off campus.

I frankly question whether GSR upgrade is a good investment. It’s not necessarily the most profitable time in the gambling biz.

The Coyotes, meh.

 

[Shwan]

The building was out of touch? I understand all the arguments ad nauseum about location, but "out of touch"?

Anyone want to decipher for me what the Little Bastard was talking about?

Just the general "White dudes didn't want to drive to watch a team lose" statement.

The Arena itself continues to do great. They just hired a new booking director (great person) and set the most events in September record. Zach Bryan also broke the all time attendance record for the Arena recently too.

 

[TheLegend]

The building was out of touch? I understand all the arguments ad nauseum about location, but "out of touch"?

Anyone want to decipher for me what the Little Bastard was talking about?

Away from the main STM fanbase.

Roughly 75% of them resided in eastern Phoenix Metro when Steve Ellman took the team to Glendale. That number has remained consistant.

Most of the corporate money is there too.

 

[TheLegend]

Just end it already the Coyotes are roadkill in Arizona nobody wants them there Glendale kick them out Tempe said no & expect Mesa will also say no .

Really who wants a team that can't pay there bills & if Mesa is dumb enough to let them build that arena that means 6 more years at Mullet arena if you include this season if you do the math they can only make 31 million dollars each of the next 6 seasons then you add 61 million dollar cap hit & you understand this is if everything goes perfect the coyotes are still going to lose a min. of $200. 000000 dollars over 6 seasons & that is everything goes right but we are talking the coyotes nothing goes right . MOVE THEM NOW

Glendale wanted them to sign a 15-20 year lease. So sayeth their own city manager. So I guess they still wanted them pretty bad???

Glendale didn't renew the lease because they knew the Coyotes were looking at Tempe and did not want a third arena to compete with. Two of their city council members even went as far as campaigning against it.

They also won't be at Mullett for 6 more seasons.

 

[TheLegend]

Just the general "White dudes didn't want to drive to watch a team lose" statement.

The Arena itself continues to do great. They just hired a new booking director (great person) and set the most events in September record. Zach Bryan also broke the all time attendance record for the Arena recently too.

Eleven scheduled dates from now until the rest of the year isn't great. Only seven TOTAL so far for 2024. (I just looked)

Events | Desert Diamond Arena

www.desertdiamondarena.com

Glendale projected they needed 20 additional dates just to replace the 41 hockey games they would lose and they aren't doing that. That was on top of what they were already booking.

They're doing okay but I wouldn't be pumping their tires. Plus they'll have the new Via Resort next door coming online late in 2024 who will be also booking events to compete with.

Nightlife & Entertainment at our Glendale Resort | VAI Resort

Let us entertain you, in more ways than one, at VAI Resort's nightclub, amphitheater, and outdoor musical events in Glendale, AZ.

www.vairesort.com

It's also easy for a concert to break an attendance record for one date when you're using the floor for seating. If they did that for every concert then they *might* be fine.

 

[Shwan]

Eleven scheduled dates from now until the rest of the year isn't great. Only seven TOTAL so far for 2024. (I just looked)

Events | Desert Diamond Arena

www.desertdiamondarena.com

Glendale projected they needed 20 additional dates just to replace the 41 hockey games they would lose and they aren't doing that. That was on top of what they were already booking.

They're doing okay but I wouldn't be pumping their tires. Plus they'll have the new Via Resort next door coming online late in 2024 who will be also booking events to compete with.

Nightlife & Entertainment at our Glendale Resort | VAI Resort

Let us entertain you, in more ways than one, at VAI Resort's nightclub, amphitheater, and outdoor musical events in Glendale, AZ.

www.vairesort.com

It's also easy for a concert to break an attendance record for one date when you're using the floor for seating. If they did that for every concert then they *might* be fine.

How about we make a wager.

If Desert Diamond Arena posts another record year in revenue you leave Hfboards forever.

If they don't I'll leave, forever.

 

[Shwan]

I'll add that the Phoenix Suns just announced their streaming package @ $109.99 for their season so it'll be interesting to see what the Coyotes price their streaming at.

Suns announce 2023 streaming package for Arizona residents

The Suns on Wednesday announced a new streaming package called Suns Live for Arizona residents trying to watch games in 2023.

arizonasports.com

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Gary Bettmen is not very good at math it shows the coyotes can only make 31 million dollars a season a mullet arena & that is if they sell out every game & do really good on merchandise sales yet they still got overhead & 61 million dollar cap hit the math shows Gary is lying & the coyotes will continue to lose money even if they get arena built in Mesa & by then the coyotes will be close or even over billion dollars in the hole & Mesa got to think is it worth building arena for a team that can't draw crowds & can't pay it's bills .

Gary Bettman for all his flaws, is a far superior businessman than you brother.

 

[Jagged Ice]

Glendale wanted them to sign a 15-20 year lease. So sayeth their own city manager. So I guess they still wanted them pretty bad???

Glendale didn't renew the lease because they knew the Coyotes were looking at Tempe and did not want a third arena to compete with. Two of their city council members even went as far as campaigning against it.

They also won't be at Mullett for 6 more seasons.

This is what The Athletic reporters fail to mention when they crucify the Coyotes or Alex Meruelo. Shocking when the media doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[Shwan]

Most likely a significant loss of revenue for the team.