CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[Ernie]

Any project on that site is going to require some public funds.

What Tempe and the Coyotes tried to was cover those costs using a method that protected the current Tempe residents from.

The land fill has to be cleaned up and the clock on it is ticking. The water table is slowly encroaching into that land fill and there is no guarantee there isn't something buried there that could pose a health hazard.

So unless the city can find another developer willing to take that risk on like the Coyotes were willing to.... all those voters who thought they were voting to "stop giving tax dollars to corrupt billionaires" are going to get the bill. Somewhere between $60-200 million depending on how the cleanup is financed.

Nothing stopping the city from taking proposals. Rest assured it shouldn't cost $700m to clean up.

 

[GKJ]

Someone would have to make the case why things would be different in Mesa if city council would feel compelled to put it to a vote. Are there materially different people and/or demographics there that would swing this?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Why did they ever move out of Phoenix in the first place - was it because of the Suns arena? (Was listening to TSNs Overdrive yesterday when Jaime McClennan mentioned this)

I don’t know how you can put an arena outside of a major metropolis. I’m surprised Anaheim ‘gets away’ with it TBH

In the end, I feel for the Arizona fans. It sucks watching everyone on the outside dumping on them

The arena wasn't good for them. But given the past 25 years I question why sightlines matter so much. A hockey-fitted arena doesn't matter much if it is half empty. Maybe Talking Stick wasn't the best, but it was better than potentially losing the team.

 

[bleedblue94]

The Suns just completed $200M+ renovations that would make zamboni operation alone just hell, and trying to maintain the ice through the season while having to cover it up every other night for Suns game would just make it soup. If the PA is already mad at playing at Mullett arena I can't see them any more content at Footprint at this point and I definitely can't see the Suns willing to turn around and accept more renovations to undo what they just did.

At the end of the day it comes down to your second point. Any possible avenue to keeping the Coyotes in Arizona involves Meruelo either accepting defeat and building a modest stand alone Arena like Honda Center or the league finds someone to buy the team who can afford to actually 100% privately finance an entertainment district.

Or they go back to glendale and inquire about buying the arena and the surround property that was offered to them before the two publicly divorced? I know there would be a lot of pride swallowing but could that be something that happens if the team can get the property around it?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Interesting..... some city council members in Phoenix suddenly are interested in bringing hockey downtown again.

Can Phoenix be home to the Coyotes? What City Council members are saying

After Tempe residents resoundingly rejected a hockey arena to house the Coyotes, questions are swirling about where the team might go next.

www.azcentral.com

They should have never left...ridiculous to be back a square one after all this time.

 

[Shwan]

Someone would have to make the case why things would be different in Mesa if city council would feel compelled to put it to a vote. Are there materially different people and/or demographics there that would swing this?

Mayor Giles and the Mesa council are certainly more business friendly conservative than Tempe but Meruelo would only get away with getting the GPLET property tax exemption.

Mesa has too much taxpayer concession tied up in their Tech Corridor by the Gateway airport that was used to bring* in the Google, Apple and Meta Data centers. There's nonstop industrial construction going on in the east now and with the economic headwinds as they are Meruelo would make the same mistake asking for anything beyond the GPLET.

Then the sub theme would be gentrification. Pretty much everything north of that Mall is lower income Hispanic neighborhoods and low rent apartments.

 

[MMC]

 

[TheLegend]

They should have never left...ridiculous to be back a square one after all this time.

I explained in another post why they left. Escalating salaries drove them deep into the red after just three years.

 

[Shwan]

Or they go back to glendale and inquire about buying the arena and the surround property that was offered to them before the two publicly divorced? I know there would be a lot of pride swallowing but could that be something that happens if the team can get the property around it?

That ship has sailed my friend. The city leased the Arena to ASM for a very long time and that land around Westgate has already been built on.

There's a $1 Billion resort/theme park going up and an apartment residential community right next to it.

Glendale's City Manager Kevin Phelps isn't messing around.

 

[TheLegend]

Or they go back to glendale and inquire about buying the arena and the surround property that was offered to them before the two publicly divorced? I know there would be a lot of pride swallowing but could that be something that happens if the team can get the property around it?

According to a recent article, Glendale offered it to them. Cheap.

But all the surrounding property is owned by Bob Parsons, owned/controlled by the Cardinals, or the city and it's not available.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Quebec City is ready, but Gary Bettman hates Canada, so forget about it.

Is Quebec ready?

I'd have serious questions. Winnipeg was just BARELY ready, and they had spent years running an AHL team. Running a junior team is a completely different beast in so many ways.

San Diego is I think the only candidate that could make it work this year.

 

[GKJ]

5-6 sites doesn’t sound like clarity.

 

[bleedblue94]

how is this going to play out between the owners and players if they actually do stay at mullet this year? how can the players be expected to continue to accept the cap implications of this mess on the cap and their earnings when the players have no say in this mess?

what is the league going to do if players and the pa become public about not reporting? yes, players would be nuts to do that and forgo their pay but it is awful pr.

how do the coyotes meet the cap floor if players wont sign there? are they going to sign jack johnson for 1 year at 10m to make the floor?

crazy situation

 

[KevFu]

Why did they ever move out of Phoenix in the first place - was it because of the Suns arena? (Was listening to TSNs Overdrive yesterday when Jaime McClennan mentioned this)

I don’t know how you can put an arena outside of a major metropolis. I’m surprised Anaheim ‘gets away’ with it TBH

In MOST metro areas, the major city is the CENTER of the metro area, and everything grew out around that center, and therefore moving outside of the city is very bad; because you're not in the central location anymore.

It's not like that out west. In both Phoenix and Los Angeles... the direction the metro area grew is based on MOUNTAINS IN THE WAY.


If you look at a map of metro areas without labels and said "Pick a spot for your sports arenas..."

The "Center" of those pics are Anaheim and Tempe.

 

[TheLegend]

Nothing stopping the city from taking proposals. Rest assured it shouldn't cost $700m to clean up.

The $700 million number was horseshit (excuse the language but there's no other word for it)

Of course they can take proposals..... where are they? They have one investment company who took out an option to develop a small portion of the site that was not part of the landfill..... in 2013. Been sitting there since.

Anyone who does look to the develop that site is going to want a GPLET. Even the one that's been sitting on that small chunk since 2013.

But no matter... you still have that landfill there....... tick tock..... tick tock.....

 

[aqib]

The $700 million number was horseshit (excuse the language but there's no other word for it)

Of course they can take proposals..... where are they? They have one investment company who took out an option to develop a small portion of the site that was not part of the landfill..... in 2013. Been sitting there since.

Anyone who does look to the develop that site is going to want a GPLET. Even the one that's been sitting on that small chunk since 2013.

But no matter... you still have that landfill there....... tick tock..... tick tock.....

According to this report the city will start from scratch, consider all possibilities, and they will engage the community:

 

[bleedblue94]

how this plays out is going to give clarity on how much the care was/is about the team and how much the team is simply a tool in a ploy to get access to building a development. sure the two can play into each other, but the focus of all of this to me is interesting and through all of this it just seems that buying the team was to be a gateway to other things such as subsidies to build an entertainment zone and gettings a betting license when the concept was super hot for profits. nothing wrong with being a smart businessman, but based on the history of the franchise i am sick of seeing it being "used" for other utilities rather than actually being an asset in itself. sucks...

 

[GKJ]

how is this going to play out between the owners and players if they actually do stay at mullet this year? how can the players be expected to continue to accept the cap implications of this mess on the cap and their earnings when the players have no say in this mess?

what is the league going to do if players and the pa become public about not reporting? yes, players would be nuts to do that and forgo their pay but it is awful pr.

how do the coyotes meet the cap floor if players wont sign there? are they going to sign jack johnson for 1 year at 10m to make the floor?

crazy situation

They just keep on taking on other teams’ dead contracts.

Current players I’d be curious about. They’re going to keep being the other 31 teams farm team until they figure it out.

 

[Slashers98]

Is Quebec ready?

I'd have serious questions. Winnipeg was just BARELY ready, and they had spent years running an AHL team. Running a junior team is a completely different beast in so many ways.

San Diego is I think the only candidate that could make it work this year.

San Diego hahaha.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

My gosh...if that's the plan B (@GKJ don't start), then they're thinking they can play in Mullet for at least another 6-7 years?! I mean, they're literally at square 1.

 

[JimAnchower]

Saying you have 5-6 options is also telling everyone you don't have one good, firm option that you can present to the public now. And I think it's more important to present one good, firm option to the public than saying you could have 5-6 options. It's a bit like your friend that never got married but everyone asks when they will. Having 5-6 options means they don't have one steady partner with a wedding around the corner.

 

[GKJ]

My gosh...if that's the plan B (@GKJ don't start), then they're thinking they can play in Mullet for at least another 6-7 years?! I mean, they're literally at square 1.

Plenty of time to relocate and return. And with a full rebrand too.

 

[GordonGraham]

Starting from scratch no matter if its in Mesa or Phoenix that would mean at least 3 and up to 5 more season at Mullet no ?

 

[bleedblue94]

They just keep on taking on other teams’ dead contracts.

Current players I’d be curious about. They’re going to keep being the other 31 teams farm team until they figure it out.

and if the league allows that then it is another issue w the pa and the cap. if the cap is to create parity and you allow a team to do that more so now bc players wont even go there then you are defeating the entire premise and at the cost of additional revenue for hrr and the cap for players. this is going to become a bigger issue and with walsh in there now this is literally gasoline for him to make a statement in his new role. what a mess.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Plenty of time to relocate and return. And with a full rebrand too.

Like...relocate to where? Another market?

Starting from scratch no matter if its in Mesa or Phoenix that would mean at least 3 and up to 5 more season at Mullet no ?

Oh...I'd be shocked if they could pull it out in 5. They haven't even negotiated a land sale...Never mind site plans, elections, investors, construction, etc...