CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[FinnHab]

Is quite amazing that NHL(Bettman) is so obsessed to keep Coyotes in Arizona. Bad business is a bad business.

 

[Fenway]

The arena wasn't good for them. But given the past 25 years I question why sightlines matter so much. A hockey-fitted arena doesn't matter much if it is half empty. Maybe Talking Stick wasn't the best, but it was better than potentially losing the team.

Jerry Colangelo recounts the birth of the Arizona Coyotes | FOX Sports

Jerry Colangelo looks back on the formative years that led to the NHL coming to the Phoenix market.

www.foxsports.com

When the Suns designed their new arena the then NHL President John Ziegler told them don't bother making the arena NHL ready............we will NEVER go there

 

[TheLegend]

According to this report the city will start from scratch, consider all possibilities, and they will engage the community:

No shit... of course they will start from scratch. So what...??

They can engage all they want. Bottom line is you have to find someone who's willing to see the economic benefits outweigh the costs.

Wanna park?? Costs are millions and make no money for the city. "Affordable housing"?? Yeah right.

Nick Wood was asked that specific question and it penciled out to $500,000...... per unit after you factored in all the costs.

Maybe they find someone who's willing to set a half billion on fire for philanthropy purposes.

Meanwhile.... tick tock..... tick tock.....

 

[TheLegend]

Starting from scratch no matter if its in Mesa or Phoenix that would mean at least 3 and up to 5 more season at Mullet no ?

The arena in Glendale took 22 months. So there's your starting point.

 

[GKJ]

Like...relocate to where? Another market?

Oh...I'd be shocked if they could pull it out in 5. They haven't even negotiated a land sale...Never mind site plans, elections, investors, construction, etc...

Yes. Expansion in 2030 or whatever.

 

[Ernie]

The $700 million number was horseshit (excuse the language but there's no other word for it)

Of course they can take proposals..... where are they? They have one investment company who took out an option to develop a small portion of the site that was not part of the landfill..... in 2013. Been sitting there since.

Anyone who does look to the develop that site is going to want a GPLET. Even the one that's been sitting on that small chunk since 2013.

But no matter... you still have that landfill there....... tick tock..... tick tock.....

A large tract of prime, developable land will have plenty of suitors.

 

[Mightygoose]

5-6 sites doesn’t sound like clarity.

It certainly doesn't sound like there is a solid plan B either.

 

[Ernie]

The arena in Glendale took 22 months. So there's your starting point.

Lol pretty sure you made the same post when the Tempe proposal first came out.. 21 months ago.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Yes. Expansion in 2030 or whatever.

Wow...that would be crazy. Sell the team and parlay the funds to expansion fees and arena cost? Not sure how feasible that is.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

San Diego hahaha.

To be clear, I don't think any market can reasonably be available at this point, but if you think the Yotes are moving for next season, SD is probably the only realistic option, unless Tilman Fertitta changes his mind in Houston.

I'd love to see the return of the Nordiques, but I'd be shocked if it happened this year.

And yes, you can bet on this:



Toronto at +475 is a TERRIBLE bet, lol.

NHL is saving them for expansion for sure.

 

[StreetHawk]

Jerry Colangelo recounts the birth of the Arizona Coyotes | FOX Sports

Jerry Colangelo looks back on the formative years that led to the NHL coming to the Phoenix market.

www.foxsports.com

When the Suns designed their new arena the then NHL President John Ziegler told them don't bother making the arena NHL ready............we will NEVER go there

That has been confirmed by Coangelo, the former owner of the Suns. But, in reality, it almost doesn't matter. Long term, the Coyotes could not survive in Footprint Arena since the Suns controlled the revenues of the arena. Only way an NHL accommodating arena in Phx would have benefitted the Coyotes would have been for the Suns ownership to have bought into the Coyotes. Once the Suns had control of the arena, no way were they reducing their share of the pie. And why would they?

I don't know the legalize of these agreements, but I imagine the Suns had the right to exercise extensions on the arena management rights as part of their 30 year lease.

Celtics and Sixers are tenants in the Bruins and Flyers operated arenas. NHL teams are either equal partners, both teams have the same owner, or the ones with the control of the arena. Don't think there is a situation where the NHL club is the tenant to an NBA operated arena.

 

[MNNumbers]

That has been confirmed by Coangelo, the former owner of the Suns. But, in reality, it almost doesn't matter. Long term, the Coyotes could not survive in Footprint Arena since the Suns controlled the revenues of the arena. Only way an NHL accommodating arena in Phx would have benefitted the Coyotes would have been for the Suns ownership to have bought into the Coyotes. Once the Suns had control of the arena, no way were they reducing their share of the pie. And why would they?

I don't know the legalize of these agreements, but I imagine the Suns had the right to exercise extensions on the arena management rights as part of their 30 year lease.

Celtics and Sixers are tenants in the Bruins and Flyers operated arenas. NHL teams are either equal partners, both teams have the same owner, or the ones with the control of the arena. Don't think there is a situation where the NHL club is the tenant to an NBA operated arena.

I have done this research. It is true. The Coyotes are the only NHL team without control of their arena.

 

[Llama19]

5-6 sites doesn’t sound like clarity.

Is Gutierrez...in searching for multiple piles of dirt...another LeBlanc...incarnate?

 

[JimAnchower]

To be clear, I don't think any market can reasonably be available at this point, but if you think the Yotes are moving for next season, SD is probably the only realistic option, unless Tilman Fertitta changes his mind in Houston.

I'd love to see the return of the Nordiques, but I'd be shocked if it happened this year.

And yes, you can bet on this:



Toronto at +475 is a TERRIBLE bet, lol.

NHL is saving them for expansion for sure.

Lots of value in SLC/Field, plus I get Portland, San Diego, Sacramento, and well pretty much any other city in the west.

 

[Slashers98]

To be clear, I don't think any market can reasonably be available at this point, but if you think the Yotes are moving for next season, SD is probably the only realistic option, unless Tilman Fertitta changes his mind in Houston.

I'd love to see the return of the Nordiques, but I'd be shocked if it happened this year.

And yes, you can bet on this:



Toronto at +475 is a TERRIBLE bet, lol.

NHL is saving them for expansion for sure.

What makes you think San Diego is a viable destination? Their arena is small for hockey (12,900 seats) and it's not a hockey market.

 

[MNNumbers]

Lots of value in SLC/Field, plus I get Portland, San Diego, Sacramento, and well pretty much any other city in the west.

I'm with you on this one.

Generally, the fact that Meruelo/Gutierrez don't seem to have another site already chosen suggests to me that one of the following is true:

- All of this is a smokescreen for the behind-the-scenes dealings for a relocation, or
- The entire NHL leadership is so half-baked that they actually think Mullett for 6-7 years is an ok idea, or
- Bettman is the only one who is crazy, and the BOG and the PA are about to go bonkers and throw a huge fit into Bettman's lap

 

[StreetHawk]

I have done this research. It is true. The Coyotes are the only NHL team without control of their arena.

This applies for Phoenix and Tempe. They had control when they were Glendale until they messed that up.

But going back to the phoenix point, unless the suns had an equity stake in the coyotes there would be no reason for them to give up any control to the coyotes.

So the coyotes would have to survive on only game day revenues that they generated from the arena. Could they have made that work? Seems unlikely and a financial drain on the coyotes owner to do that.

 

[tucker3434]

Is quite amazing that NHL(Bettman) is so obsessed to keep Coyotes in Arizona. Bad business is a bad business.

It’s an attractive market, but one that can’t handle losing indefinitely. Bettman can’t force them to put a competitive team in the ice.

All things equal, I’d rather own a team in Phoenix than Salt Lake City, but it doesn’t appear things will ever be equal.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

What makes you think San Diego is a viable destination? Their arena is small for hockey (12,900 seats) and it's not a hockey market.

They have the population base, an available, reasonable arena, and an AHL infrastructure.

Are there any other markets with those three checkmarks? (Major league population, 10k arena to play in, AHL team)

Plus, they don't have to compete with the NBA.

I'm talking about moving the Coyotes THIS year. I first heard rumblings about Winnipeg getting the Thrashers in January of 2011 - We had unofficial reports in mid-may, and confirmed on May 30.

That was really too late to move a team. Probably not even a week to spare.

 

[Shwan]

Is Gutierrez...in searching for multiple piles of dirt...another LeBlanc...incarnate?

 

[JimAnchower]

I'm with you on this one.

Generally, the fact that Meruelo/Gutierrez don't seem to have another site already chosen suggests to me that one of the following is true:

- All of this is a smokescreen for the behind-the-scenes dealings for a relocation, or
- The entire NHL leadership is so half-baked that they actually think Mullett for 6-7 years is an ok idea, or
- Bettman is the only one who is crazy, and the BOG and the PA are about to go bonkers and throw a huge fit into Bettman's lap

The only plausible firm option they could release in the next month is Salt River or some other private developer. It's possible they could be negotiating with them in private for a while and they are just doing final details now after the Tempe vote failed. That's it. Any other town would have news leaks and a public record, like Mesa did today.

It's more likely that no one is willing to take the Coyotes on short notice and that's why they're staying another year so other cities can get their ducks in a row.

 

[garbageteam]

To be clear, I don't think any market can reasonably be available at this point, but if you think the Yotes are moving for next season, SD is probably the only realistic option, unless Tilman Fertitta changes his mind in Houston.

I'd love to see the return of the Nordiques, but I'd be shocked if it happened this year.

And yes, you can bet on this:



Toronto at +475 is a TERRIBLE bet, lol.

NHL is saving them for expansion for sure.

KC at second highest odds, really? Toronto2 at 3rd highest?? This definitely feels like a case where random forumgoers know a lot more than the bookies. I may be a QC stan but there's no way QC with all the publicity has less than half the odds of a second team in Toronto.

The field would by far be the best bet. I feel like the field has better odds than Houston's 40%. But really the highest odds should be "stay in Arizona"...

 

[GKJ]

They have the population base, an available, reasonable arena, and an AHL infrastructure.

Are there any other markets with those three checkmarks? (Major league population, 10k arena to play in, AHL team)

Plus, they don't have to compete with the NBA.

I'm talking about moving the Coyotes THIS year. I first heard rumblings about Winnipeg getting the Thrashers in January of 2011 - We had unofficial reports in mid-may, and confirmed on May 30.

That was really too late to move a team. Probably not even a week to spare.

The issue with San Diego is still the new building. Why they're building it so small, I do not understand, because they're a market that should have one that's much larger, but 13,000 seats ain't gonna cut it.

Everything else I agree though, that's a place they should be trying to be in.

 

[Lions67]

The issue with San Diego is still the new building. Why they're building it so small, I do not understand, because they're a market that should have one that's much larger, but 13,000 seats ain't gonna cut it.

Everything else I agree though, that's a place they should be trying to be in.

Still 8,000 MORE seats than Mullet.
I would rather see the team play in San Diego or even Omaha than stay another day in Mullet Arena.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

He was behind the sports agent owning the team in that junk yard in Tukwila. Be glad he missed the deadline and Vegas went first.

Yeah. That site was a terrible site and everyone around here knew it. And that wasn't a junkyard either - it was the old Longacres horse race track site.