CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

[Ernie]

I would expect this. Could the new lease take power away from the Suns about bringing in another tenant? Is Ishbia more willing to partner than Sarver? Now if the recent renovation made moving the Coyotes downtown more difficult, it still doesn't hurt politicians to float the idea. There's no harm in "hey, we're willing to work here". If they are truly interested, it will cost a lot of money to do another renovation.

The only way this appeals to Ishbia is if the team is sold to him at a very favourable price.

This is the option that Coyotes fans should be pushing for.

 

[Heavy Dee]

 

[MNNumbers]

If true, this suggests that Plan B doesn't really exist.........yet.

 

[JimAnchower]

I hope this isn't the "plan b" they've talked about. Even as a "plan c", it's not good. They would be years away from anything happening and they've just opened the door.

Edit to add:
Maybe Meruelo's tolerance for losses is greater than most think and he's willing to fund losses until he gets his development.

 

[Shwan]

A smart American businessman always donates to both parties. I'm surprised that only his Republican donations would be parroted by the proletariat.

Boomer Republican voters in South Tempe just really needed to be told about the GPLET to get their "Nimby" motors going to vote.

It was the younger (comparative) Democrat/Independent voters that had to take some finessing to make sure they came out. Seemed to work out.

 

[Ernie]

Do people really think it was Democrats that scuttled this?

Tempe may be Democratic leaning for state and federal elections but people who vote municipally tend to be older and whiter and lean Republican. That lines up with the reporting on turnout for the referendum as well.

 

[Mightygoose]

How long would a process take with Mesa to get anything to council never mind a public vote if needed?

Even if they're not starting from scratch.... depends on the political appetite of course

 

[Llama19]

Google map of Fiesta Mall in Mesa...
(purple area in lower right, upper left STAR is approximate location of TED site)...

Note: Distance between locations is approximately eight (8) miles.

 

[Ernie]

How long would a process take with Mesa to get anything to council never mind a public vote if needed?

Even if they're not starting from scratch.... depends on the political appetite of course

After seeing how this turned against Tempe council, political appetite has to be near zero to contribute any public funds, especially with Meruelo involved.

 

[Shwan]

Do people really think it was Democrats that scuttled this?

Tempe may be Democratic leaning for state and federal elections but people who vote municipally tend to be older and whiter and lean Republican. That lines up with the reporting on turnout for the referendum as well.

I just posted the turnout numbers:

12,700 Democrats
7,200 Independent
8,200 Republicans

 

[Llama19]

Latest article...from the Phoenix Business Journal...on Fiesta Mall...

Developer files initial plans to redevelop shuttered Fiesta Mall in Mesa

To quote:

"Steps are now being taken to redevelop the shuttered Fiesta Mall in Mesa.

Developer Verde Investments filed pre-submittal documents to the city of Mesa earlier this month to redevelop the site into new retail, up to 4,000 multifamily units, flex office and open green space. Plans submitted so far don't include exact square footages of the new development.

Bill Jabjiniak, Mesa's director of economic development, said there's a long road ahead before anything happens in redeveloping the 80-acre site at the southeast corner of Alma School Road and Southern Avenue."

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/03/17/verde-investments-fiesta-mall-redevelopment-plans.html

 

[Ernie]

I just posted the turnout numbers:

12,700 Democrats
7,200 Independent
8,200 Republicans

Do you know where to find the turnout numbers for the last Tempe election?

Latest article...from the Phoenix Business Journal...on Fiesta Mall...

Developer files initial plans to redevelop shuttered Fiesta Mall in Mesa

To quote:

"Steps are now being taken to redevelop the shuttered Fiesta Mall in Mesa.

Developer Verde Investments filed pre-submittal documents to the city of Mesa earlier this month to redevelop the site into new retail, up to 4,000 multifamily units, flex office and open green space. Plans submitted so far don't include exact square footages of the new development.

Bill Jabjiniak, Mesa's director of economic development, said there's a long road ahead before anything happens in redeveloping the 80-acre site at the southeast corner of Alma School Road and Southern Avenue."

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/03/17/verde-investments-fiesta-mall-redevelopment-plans.html

So the land is already owned by another developer, who has a development proposal already.

This is going nowhere.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Why did they ever move out of Phoenix in the first place - was it because of the Suns arena? (Was listening to TSNs Overdrive yesterday when Jaime McClennan mentioned this)

I don’t know how you can put an arena outside of a major metropolis. I’m surprised Anaheim ‘gets away’ with it TBH

In the end, I feel for the Arizona fans. It sucks watching everyone on the outside dumping on them

 

[StreetHawk]

I would expect this. Could the new lease take power away from the Suns about bringing in another tenant? Is Ishbia more willing to partner than Sarver? Now if the recent renovation made moving the Coyotes downtown more difficult, it still doesn't hurt politicians to float the idea. There's no harm in "hey, we're willing to work here". If they are truly interested, it will cost a lot of money to do another renovation.

Article says it would be private funds thus falls on the coyotes to pay as the Suns won’t and have no reason to. But what is the payoff for the coyotes to spend $200 mill on it? Do they get a cut of the non hockey/basketball revenues afterwards? For other nhl teams that share with an nba team it’s either an even split, they have the same owner, or the nhl team operates the arena. Don’t have one where the nba team operates the arena while the nhl team is the tenant.

Why would the suns give that up when they currently have it to themselves? Only if they have skin in the game of the coyotes from an ownership pov.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Of course they won't, they'd be stupid to do that.

Unless they are moving to San Diego, (and a slim chance quebec) next year will be in Mullet.

 

[Llama19]

So the land is already owned by another developer, who has a development proposal already.

This is going nowhere.

You hear that Mr Meruelo?...That is the sound of inevitability...It is the sound of your death...Goodbye, Mr Meruelo...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I think this entire summer is a smokescreen/half-hearted attempt. No market is prepared to take on the Coyotes on such short notice. They'll play the season in mullet, and organize a more realistic sale timeline.

 

[Shwan]

Do you know where to find the turnout numbers for the last Tempe election?

The Maricopa results page shows the March 2022 Council election in Tempe with a turnout of 21,338 people. Not sure if there's a party breakdown in the txt file though. Probably would be easier if you searched @sfalmy on Twitter around March 2022. If it exists he most likely did the work and mocked it up.

 

[TheLegend]

Why did they ever move out of Phoenix in the first place - was it because of the Suns arena? (Was listening to TSNs Overdrive yesterday when Jaime McClennan mentioned this)

I don’t know how you can put an arena outside of a major metropolis. I’m surprised Anaheim ‘gets away’ with it TBH

In the end, I feel for the Arizona fans. It sucks watching everyone on the outside dumping on them

This comes from Richard Burke, one of the original owners of the Coyotes when they moved to Phoenix.

When the Coyotes first moved to Phoenix the average team payroll was $17 million. The break even point for them was $29 million and by year three they had exceeded it. When Burke sold the team to the Ellman/Gretzky/Moyes group the average was $44 million.

With favorable Tempe vote, Coyotes finally have opportunity to secure beneficial Valley location - PHNX Sports

For 23 of the Coyotes' 26 seasons in the Valley, arena location has been a crippling handicap to their financial and on-ice success. On Tuesday, the Coyotes

www.gophnx.com

You hear that Mr Meruelo?...That is the sound of inevitability...It is the sound of your death...Goodbye, Mr Meruelo...

I hear a lot of blustering and crowing from the cheap seats.

 

[LPHabsFan]

I hope this isn't the "plan b" they've talked about. Even as a "plan c", it's not good. They would be years away from anything happening and they've just opened the door.

Edit to add:
Maybe Meruelo's tolerance for losses is greater than most think and he's willing to fund losses until he gets his development.

It's easy when you're not the one covering the losses and haven't paid a dime for this organization to begin with. At least that's been my theory on his "ownership" all along.

 

[TheLegend]

Latest article...from the Phoenix Business Journal...on Fiesta Mall...

Developer files initial plans to redevelop shuttered Fiesta Mall in Mesa

To quote:

"Steps are now being taken to redevelop the shuttered Fiesta Mall in Mesa.

Developer Verde Investments filed pre-submittal documents to the city of Mesa earlier this month to redevelop the site into new retail, up to 4,000 multifamily units, flex office and open green space. Plans submitted so far don't include exact square footages of the new development.

Bill Jabjiniak, Mesa's director of economic development, said there's a long road ahead before anything happens in redeveloping the 80-acre site at the southeast corner of Alma School Road and Southern Avenue."

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/03/17/verde-investments-fiesta-mall-redevelopment-plans.html

Uh huh..... Verde Investments. same group that have sat on a chunk of the TED site for over ten years.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Ernie]

The Maricopa results page shows the March 2022 Council election in Tempe with a turnout of 21,338 people. Not sure if there's a party breakdown in the txt file though. Probably would be easier if you searched @sfalmy on Twitter around March 2022. If it exists he most likely did the work and mocked it up.

Had a look but don't see any mention of party registration. Thanks for the tips tho.

 

[mouser]

So that is more along the lines of covering expenses rather than revenue though. In any case its ASM's call now not Glendale's.

There would also be any sales taxes Glendale collected in and around the arena as a result of the games.

 

[Slashers98]

I think this entire summer is a smokescreen/half-hearted attempt. No market is prepared to take on the Coyotes on such short notice. They'll play the season in mullet, and organize a more realistic sale timeline.

Quebec City is ready, but Gary Bettman hates Canada, so forget about it.

 

[TheLegend]

After seeing how this turned against Tempe council, political appetite has to be near zero to contribute any public funds, especially with Meruelo involved.

Any project on that site is going to require some public funds.

What Tempe and the Coyotes tried to was cover those costs using a method that protected the current Tempe residents from.

The land fill has to be cleaned up and the clock on it is ticking. The water table is slowly encroaching into that land fill and there is no guarantee there isn't something buried there that could pose a health hazard.

So unless the city can find another developer willing to take that risk on like the Coyotes were willing to.... all those voters who thought they were voting to "stop giving tax dollars to corrupt billionaires" are going to get the bill. Somewhere between $60-200 million depending on how the cleanup is financed.