CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[ponder719]

Obviously, for the sake of Coyotes fans, I hope this comes back a resounding yes, but independent of the outcome, I'm glad we'll all finally get some clarity, either way.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Well, this guy did at least



Truly incredible that people are paid to write sentences such as the following

"Meanwhile, we’re stuck with Bettman’s McTeams and squads from Southern Evangelistan battling for Lord Stanley’s Cup.

Enjoy. Or better still — fire up the barbecue, hit the golf course and forget it until October, when the sport returns to a country where it actually matters."

"As of this writing, we’re left with three Sun Belt teams (two of them transplanted from the north years ago) and two expansion teams — one of them the Seattle Kraken, a team that has yet to celebrate its second birthday.

This is Bettman’s vision. The only thing that could possibly make him happier would be to see his beloved Arizona Coyotes play a Cup final in front of 5,000 people at Mullett Arena on the Arizona State campus."

While I agree that Bettman and Jacobs view Canada with disdain, no one including them wants the Coyotes in that arena a millisecond longer than it takes to secure a real arena in the area, and even that patience presumably has a limit.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Bettman's vision included Matthews and Tavares combining for 0 goals in the second round, and a team with three 100-point scorers unable to do anything 5-on-5.

That's Special Secret Agent Auston Matthews. Just wait til you see what he *and* his new AZ buddy Knies has in store for the Leafs next year after they win *two* rounds!

 

[JimAnchower]

Voters leaving indicate an overwhelming defeat ;|
OH!
Voters leaving indicate overwhelming win too!

Just depends upon which group is announcing.

Tempewins say early voting won for them
Tempe1rst say voters leaving the polls say the opposite.

Figures, but early results should be soon

Tempewins is busing (in?) people to vote, unclear about that.

If one side is accusing the other side of busing in voters or something else illegal/nefarious, that sounds like someone is making excuses before the voting is counted.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The city has to pay to clean up the site. Estimated at over 70 million.

WRONG

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Any word from the ground in Arizona? Is the sentiment generally positive or negative from the voters?

 

[Headshot77]

I feel like the biggest day in their history was that one day in 2011 when they supposedly had the moving trucks ready for Winnipeg but survived because of a Glendale vote that was won by one vote.

 

[PredsHead]

 

[oldunclehue]

Hoping for the Yotes and their fans this turns out as a YES, would be great to have a solid plan and future moving forward. If it's a NO.....then I guess they start looking elsewhere for an arena to be built or move?

 

[saskriders]

Is there any data to show how certain demographics would vote for these measures or how turnout would impact these particular votes? Like I completely get looking at data like this for elections for somethinglike a senate seat. But I'm skeptical that we know enough to use it to predict the outcome of these particular votes.

 

[Legion34]

Is there any data to show how certain demographics would vote for these measures or how turnout would impact these particular votes? Like I completely get looking at data like this for elections for somethinglike a senate seat. But I'm skeptical that we know enough to use it to predict the outcome of these particular votes.

I would guess seniors are less likely. To be worried about hockey games music and residential complex…..

 

[TheLegend]

I would guess seniors are less likely. To be worried about hockey games music and residential complex…..

Not exactly…

A new residential complex for seniors opened not long ago in downtown Tempe near restaurants and clubs and launched a lawsuit against one club for having live music (too noisy). Even though this business had been there first.

The seniors initially won in court but there was a compromise reached later on allowing the live music back in.

 

[Legion34]

Not exactly…

A new residential complex for seniors opened not long ago in downtown Tempe near restaurants and clubs and launched a lawsuit against one club for having live music (too noisy). Even though this business had been there first.

The seniors initially won in court but there was a compromise reached later on allowing the live music back in.

??? Doesn’t that mean that seniors would be more likely to vote no to an entertainment complex?

 

[PredsHead]

Is there any data to show how certain demographics would vote for these measures or how turnout would impact these particular votes? Like I completely get looking at data like this for elections for somethinglike a senate seat. But I'm skeptical that we know enough to use it to predict the outcome of these particular votes.

Not that I am aware of since there has been no polling released by anyone.

 

[KevFu]

It drives me nuts when people talk about tax abatement as a negative thing that taxpayers are "paying" or "losing."

Sure, it's an "opportunity cost" that you're not potentially getting, but it's only actually an opportunity cost if there's a definite plan for an alternative that's GOING to happen if the arena doesn't. Which is like 99% never the case.

(Nassau County made a big stink about it for the Islanders a decade ago, same tired talking points. The people voted against a new Islanders arena because of an opportunity cost, but that site has been there since the Air Force gave it to the county, and hasn't been utilized for anything but NVMC in SEVENTY YEARS).


The land in question in Tempe is a DUMP, that needs like $70 million worth of investment in order to actually DO anything with it. Money that Tempe doesn't want to pay.

And everyone is completely ignoring that people from outside of Tempe will likely be carrying the bulk of the CFD. There's SIX MILLION people in the metro area, and only 184,118 live in Tempe.


This is easily the most municipal-friendly arena deal in the history of the NHL, NBA, NFL or MLB.

 

[KevFu]

What's funny is that the same NIMBY's voting against a sports arena because of tax abatement are probably the exact same parents who threatened their kid with "If you don't practice your (musical instrument) I'll give it to someone who will."

 

[JimAnchower]

??? Doesn’t that mean that seniors would be more likely to vote no to an entertainment complex?

Just tell the seniors that they'll get to see Neil Diamond and Jimmy Buffett and be home before dark.

Oh, Cracklin' Rosie get on board!

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Nothing has been looked at in terms of partisan (Dems/Repubs) splits on this, right?

I can't seem to remember the breakdown of the congresspeople/mayors supporting/opposing this.

 

[StreetHawk]

The land in question in Tempe is a DUMP, that needs like $70 million worth of investment in order to actually DO anything with it. Money that Tempe doesn't want to pay.

And everyone is completely ignoring that people from outside of Tempe will likely be carrying the bulk of the CFD. There's SIX MILLION people in the metro area, and only 184,118 live in Tempe.


This is easily the most municipal-friendly arena deal in the history of the NHL, NBA, NFL or MLB.

Per SN, there are only 90K of eligible voters to make the final call. The decision will land in the hands of the 40K or so who actually go out and vote given what voter turnout typically is.

 

[mouser]

Nothing has been looked at in terms of partisan (Dems/Repubs) splits on this, right?

I can't seem to remember the breakdown of the congresspeople/mayors supporting/opposing this.

Not that I'm aware of, but I don't think this is really a politically dividing ballot issue. The only sitting state politicians who have gone on record as opposing the deal are Dems, but so are the Tempe mayor and majority of the city council who unanimously approved the proposal.

I suspect a large portion of the vote will be decided simply on whether the voters trust the Tempe city council's endorsement of the proposal.

 

[TheLegend]

Nothing has been looked at in terms of partisan (Dems/Repubs) splits on this, right?

I can't seem to remember the breakdown of the congresspeople/mayors supporting/opposing this.

This is a non-partisan issue it seems. There are former mayors and council members for both parties supporting this.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I haven't been following this closely, but is this considered Arizona's 9th life?

Like, if this gets voted down is the only question weather they have a new home right away or play out the string before moving?

 

[TheLegend]

It drives me nuts when people talk about tax abatement as a negative thing that taxpayers are "paying" or "losing."

Sure, it's an "opportunity cost" that you're not potentially getting, but it's only actually an opportunity cost if there's a definite plan for an alternative that's GOING to happen if the arena doesn't. Which is like 99% never the case.

(Nassau County made a big stink about it for the Islanders a decade ago, same tired talking points. The people voted against a new Islanders arena because of an opportunity cost, but that site has been there since the Air Force gave it to the county, and hasn't been utilized for anything but NVMC in SEVENTY YEARS).


The land in question in Tempe is a DUMP, that needs like $70 million worth of investment in order to actually DO anything with it. Money that Tempe doesn't want to pay.

And everyone is completely ignoring that people from outside of Tempe will likely be carrying the bulk of the CFD. There's SIX MILLION people in the metro area, and only 184,118 live in Tempe.


This is easily the most municipal-friendly arena deal in the history of the NHL, NBA, NFL or MLB.

There is what I think is the problem.

Everything built in Arizona to date has been built on 100% public monies and this is the first one that hasn’t.

Between the Suns getting their $210 million upgrades to Footprint and the Diamondbacks threatening to leave the past 3-4 years over a stadium has made the public so numb to this that it was easy for Tempe1st to jump on the CFD and bonding that only is for what Tempe would be obliged to cover and sell it as “billionaire handouts again”!

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I haven't been following this closely, but is this considered Arizona's 9th life?

Like, if this gets voted down is the only question weather they have a new home right away or play out the string before moving?

The team is not moving if this is voted down. Maybe next year, but I would be as shocked as I have ever been in this saga if the team moves this year. (And I have this actually passing)

They'll try to find another solution in Arizona, even if its just a token effort that is doomed to fail.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I havn't been following this closely, but is this considered Arizona's 9th life?

Like, if this gets voted down is the only question weather they have a new home right away or play out the string before moving

Until they find all of:
1) an arena or arena plan they like
2) a buyer willing to meet their asking price
3) a location they desire

Unless all of those criteria are met I think the NHL blocks a hypothetical relocation.