CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[TheLegend]

Will the results be known tomorrow or like most Arizona election take days or weeks to count the votes

Being the second most populous county in the US, MariCo EC is equipped to handle 2.5 million ballots and more. This is just roughly 30,000.

So unless we have sudden shipments of ballots parachuted in from South Korea arriving overnight and/or accusations of bamboo fibers in the paper it should be known by Friday at the latest.

 

[TheLegend]

???? Multiple insiders openly speak how the players and owners are all complaining.

Seravalli is from Philly and he mentions it a lot

This has been an ongoing issue for a long time.

Seravalli also has no clue. He can bluster all he wants about it but he’s got a local audience he has to feed.

Understand that when Gary Lawless was at the Winnipeg Free Press he was feeding he audience a steady diet of “hockey and desert doesn’t work!” for years.

Then he got hired to be the media front guy for Vegas.

Does the plan b require a vote?
If you had a ready to go spot you are delaying the construction and waiting for plan A

That’s why mullet is a part of it

Depends on where plan B is. If it’s city owned, private or even on reservation lands as some locals have speculated will determine that.

Whatever it is there’s no doubt some of the negotiations have already taken place.

 

[Legion34]

Only people I see whom are ”livid” (and I get around the internet a lot) are:

1) Allan Walsh (he hates everything Arizona because he’s an agent and wants maximum income for himself via big contracts and thinks team like AZ are a hindrance to it.

2) Canadian media types from the Montreal/Toronto area. Because after Canadian teams get bounced from the playoffs they need another red meat source for their listeners and we’re an easy target.

3) People who don’t understand how this works.

4) People who have been waiting for the train wreck since 2009 to happen, and it keeps getting put on the siding.

Download the DFO rundown with frank seravalli. He goes off on it…. He unlike marek says it’s no and that the meeting say nothing f about the yotes it’s all about the jobs and music venues… because the coyotes are not viable on their own with public interest.

He says that the owners and players are upset about it.

He’s American from Philly

It’s the last 12 min of podcast

Sera also has no clue. He can bluster all he wants about it but he’s got a local audience he has to feed.



Depends on where plan B is. If it’s city owned, private or even on reservation lands as some locals have speculated will determine that.

Whatever it is there’s no doubt some of the negotiations have already taken place.

So now it’s montreal Toronto and Philly? All have mouths to feed. By…… talking about the coyotes?

Ok

 

[TheLegend]

Download the DFO rundown with frank seravalli. He goes off on it…. He unlike marek says it’s no and that the meeting say nothing f about the yotes it’s all about the jobs and music venues… because the coyotes are not viable on their own with public interest.

He says that the owners and players are upset about it.

He’s American from Philly

It’s the last 12 min of podcast



So now it’s montreal Toronto and Philly? All have mouths to feed. By…… talking about the coyotes?

Ok

They have no idea what is happening here.

They’re all looking at this from a distant location. They read the tea leaves on Twitter and other social media and sell their best educated guess to their listeners to make them happy.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Is there any chance that this won't pass? I have no real knowledge of the situation but it seems like it's likely to pass which would be a huge sigh of relief for those that follow the team.

 

[mouser]

Is there any chance that this won't pass? I have no real knowledge of the situation but it seems like it's likely to pass which would be a huge sigh of relief for those that follow the team.

I think odds are in favor of it passing, but yes there‘s a real material possibility it does not pass.

We should find out in 26 hours.

 

[Final Baton]

Hasn't it been said by people who look at the big picture that the success, or failure, of this whole project, of which the arena is just a small part of, is based on them being able to sell off all the real estate, including primarily, the housing development?

So if we take that as an assumption, we can then say, that any plan where the arena is either the only, or main, asset would not be feasible right?

So the question on this Plan B idea is......where is there another site that can offer not just the benefits that TED and the city are providing, but also the size of land needed for this scope of a project?

I think this is where the disbelief of an actual, and possible/plausible, Plan B comes into play.

I was wondering this as well. If the plan B comes with no opportunity for development, then it's not profitable right?

 

[mouser]

I was wondering this as well. If the plan B comes with no opportunity for development, then it's not profitable right?

Impossible to say without the full details. Plan B would likely look very different from the TED proposal, especially the residential component.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Is there any chance that this won't pass? I have no real knowledge of the situation but it seems like it's likely to pass which would be a huge sigh of relief for those that follow the team.

The consensus here from people I trust is to lean yes, but no one would be surprised by a no.

Not to go full Alex Jones, but I don't trust anyone in the mainstream hockey media on this, because who is realistically supposed to have followed this whole saga/backstory to get the proper context for this deal.

I joined this board in 2010 - mildly followed it when I was a bit younger.

I'm 30 now. Following this saga is a full time journalistic beat for the past 15 years, and no one was willing to take that on.

It is an overall inditement of the mainstream hockey press they lack the tools to evaluate and report on municipal deals like this though. The talking heads reporting/opining on this deal haven't been on a city council beat in a very long time, if ever, and its really showing.

It appears they digested "Phoenix arena deal bad" based on previous ridiculous proposed deals/their own biases, and lack the ability to change their minds based on evaluating this deal on its own merits, which, even if you're against it, is clearly 1000 times better.

If you're a sports outlet, scooping up a municipal affairs reporter would probably be a great investment nowadays, considering how insular sports reporting has become.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Today!

 

[Snarky Coyote]

Tomorrow we'll discover
What our God in Heaven has in store!
One more dawn
One more day
One day more!

 

[Llama19]

Tuesday marks last day for Tempe residents to vote on Coyotes proposed entertainment district

Source: www.azfamily.com/2023/05/16/tuesday-is-last-day-tempe-residents-vote-coyotes-proposed-entertainment-district/

 

[Legion34]

Marek says it’s likely to pass
Seravalli says it’s likely to fail.

We will see

 

[paul-laus]

Marek says it’s likely to pass
Seravalli says it’s likely to fail.

We will see

Seravelli is a schmuck…

 

[Roadrage]

I think it will pass...probably like 55-45. Cost for arena will balloon by at least 25% of initial estimates. Staying forever according to Bettman will be about 20-25 years when Coyotes will need a new state of the art arena to replace the one in TED...rinse repeat.

 

[Legion34]

Seravelli is a schmuck…

And marek is what?

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[theguardianII]

T. E. M. P. O. R. A. R. Y.

Read that again. Sound it out if it helps.

T. E. M. P. O. R. A. R. Y.

The willful ignorance in here sometimes...I swear.

How many NHL franchises have played in less than a 14000 seat arena?

5 years may be TEMPORARY but what if? 10 years can be TEMPORARY so can 25.

Yotes have played in 3 TEMPORARY locations over 30 years

You seem to think that the reduced revenue doesn't affect the rest of the teams.

The 1/3 of the bottom are given money from the rest with the amount based on how much they earned or didn't earn.

Would it be a surprise if the Yotes were paid 67 million dollars or more? Essentially the NHL paying the freight for the team considering their financial obligations to players is under 40 mil? The rest are paid by injury insurance.

But that is temporary too.

 

[TheLegend]

Yotes have played in 3 TEMPORARY locations over 30 years

It's comments like this one that prove nobody should take you seriously.

 

[OG6ix]

What is the ETA to find out the results of the vote? I just can't muster watching a city hall feed spent way too many hours doing that with the whole glendale debockle.

 

[theguardianII]

The developer holds back an set percentage of the sales taxes as one of the three sources to pay off the bonds. The remaining sales taxes goes to the city. So no… they do not get to keep everything.

So the developer gets 50% or a set amount of the tax that would have gone to the city. Right?
So the city is giving up a portion of it's sales tax to the developer.

Tax equals 100 million and the city gives the developer say 30 million of the tax.

So far the owner of the Yotes is out around 10 mil that the NHL not doubt has acted as a security.
The city then sells 200 million in bonds and gives it to the owner for developing.
And the city has to pay for the site clean up to an additional 93 million.

Not seeing much money coming from the owner.

If it was such a great deal why didn't the owner just pay for everything up front?

And the staggered priority of building almost make it seem the "housing" will never be built due the aircraft flying around 400 ft over head and sound bylaws. The noise alone would make it a dubious place to live.

But the agreement would still encumber the city for agreed upon clauses, tax breaks and commitments without recourse due to outside interference such as the FAA.

It may not matter in a few hours anyway, lots of grey haired voters going to the polls, not good for the Yotes.

I liked the "spin" the Yotes are trying that the city council voted unanimously to agree with the proposal.

When in reality all they agreed to was sending to a referendum.

The original vote on the proposal was 3 yes, 2 no and 2 abstentions not enough to pass.

 

[Rob]

So if the yes vote wins how soon can construction start? Does that Glendale lawsuit have to be dealt with first?

 

[Final Baton]

What is the ETA to find out the results of the vote? I just can't muster watching a city hall feed spent way too many hours doing that with the whole glendale debockle.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I think it will pass...probably like 55-45. Cost for arena will balloon by at least 25% of initial estimates. Staying forever according to Bettman will be about 20-25 years when Coyotes will need a new state of the art arena to replace the one in TED...rinse repeat.

I doubt very much that happens. A lot of the arenas built in the 1990s are now coming up on 30 years old and there's been no pressure to build new ones that I'm aware of.

The only arena in the league under pressure to be replaced is the Calgary Saddledome. It's not only old, but the iconic shape turned out to be a bad design - it has terrible sightlines from the upper deck.

Still lots of way this could go wrong - Meruelo/Bluebird runs out of money/goes bankrupt comes to mind as one option during the building process. But frankly if the Coyotes make it 20-25 years before more issues come up I'd count that as a win.

 

[TheLegend]

So the developer gets 50% or a set amount of the tax that would have gone to the city. Right?
So the city is giving up a portion of it's sales tax to the developer.

The CFD retains the portions of the taxes to pay off the bonds.

To be more exact:

The sources for repayment of the bonds will consist of a portion of the sales and property tax revenues generated on-site as well as a surcharge implemented by the developer on all sales within the project. Specifically, the city will repay the bonds using 75% of the unrestricted sales tax revenues generated on the property and 62% of unrestricted property taxes. The developer will join in repaying the bonds using the surcharge on all sales and taxable activity within the project. The surcharge rate may vary year to year to generate sufficient revenue for the annual bond payment. Repayment will take no more than 30 years. The developer’s contribution will likely exceed more than half of the total bond principal and interest payments that must be made.

Tax equals 100 million and the city gives the developer say 30 million of the tax.

The taxes held back pays the bonds. The developer doesn't get it.

So far the owner of the Yotes is out around 10 mil that the NHL not doubt has acted as a security.

He's out $30-40 million so far. $30-35 million for the annex and upgrades at Mullett Arena (which goes to ASU once the Coyotes move out). And the rest was purchasing a building adjacent to the Scottsdale IceDen and fitting it to become the temporary training facility.

The city then sells 200 million in bonds and gives it to the owner for developing.
And the city has to pay for the site clean up to an additional 93 million.

The CFD (which is NOT connected to the city) issues the bonds, and the $200 million is for covering the infrastructure costs AND remediation of the site. Those are set costs the city would be required to cover no matter what was developed. at the site

Using the CFD keeps those costs off the city's current general funds.

Not seeing much money coming from the owner.

He paying $1.9 billion into this. $40 million up front for the purchase of the land that is non-refundable.

If it was such a great deal why didn't the owner just pay for everything up front?

See last answer.

And the staggered priority of building almost make it seem the "housing" will never be built due the aircraft flying around 400 ft over head and sound bylaws. The noise alone would make it a dubious place to live.

There are more than 4000 residential units under the flight path now. Built AFTER the IGA agreement was in place. Phoenix was perfectly fine with those. There are emails between the two cities that back that up.

But the agreement would still encumber the city for agreed upon clauses, tax breaks and commitments without recourse due to outside interference such as the FAA.

It may not matter in a few hours anyway, lots of grey haired voters going to the polls, not good for the Yotes.

I liked the "spin" the Yotes are trying that the city council voted unanimously to agree with the proposal.

They did.... the final vote was 7-0.

When in reality all they agreed to was sending to a referendum.

The original vote on the proposal was 3 yes, 2 no and 2 abstentions not enough to pass.

It was 5-2. The earlier vote in June of 2022 was to proceed with final negotiations. Between that vote there where two new council members introduced. One of those "no" votes in June was still on the council and switched to "yes" since it was going to referendum.

Every council member who voted "yes" in that final vote has since been campaigning with the Coyotes to approve it.