CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[awfulwaffle]

Ok but then how much better is it…. If the other one isn’t good enough that it is somehow worth it to go through all this.

Why would this be acceptable to the league.

The cost benefit analysis doesn’t seem to make sense

Pretty sure AM has gone through an analysis of this site, other sites, etc.

 

[Tawnos]

But if there is some readily available option that is somehow viable……

Why in the world would they want to stay at Mullet for longer? It’s been a year. And no gaurantee that it works. It makes zero sense.

Why would the NHL allow this to turn into a gong show with a city vote and extended time of lower revenues when there is another perfectly good option?

There isn't another perfectly good option with an arena on it. I'm not sure why you aren't clear on that point.

 

[Legion34]

Pretty sure AM has gone through an analysis of this site, other sites, etc.

Yes. And he has determined that the other site is tangibly worse than playing in a 5k building and no gaurantees.

So it sounds like the second site is not that desirable

 

[Yukon Joe]

But if there is some readily available option that is somehow viable……

Why in the world would they want to stay at Mullet for longer? It’s been a year. And no gaurantee that it works. It makes zero sense.

Why would the NHL allow this to turn into a gong show with a city vote and extended time of lower revenues when there is another perfectly good option?

Sure it can make sense.

A lot of people say Mullett "looks bad" for the league, but the Coyotes have "looked bad" for a long time so I'm not sure how much they care. Anyways they've gone on record saying that by reducing the supply of tickets they're able to sell at much higher prices so that they're making about the same amount of money as they did in Glendale.

And even if Plan B is "good enough", the TED could be so much better it's worth the hassle. Once cleaned up that's going to be a very valuable piece of land to develop in a very central location. If successful Meruelo could stand to make a lot of money over the long run. Remember getting a home for the Coyotes is only part of the overall picture.

 

[Legion34]

There isn't another perfectly good option with an arena on it. I'm not sure why you aren't clear on that point.

So if they vote no (zero idea if that s likely) there is no good option to stay in Arizona

 

[awfulwaffle]

Yes. And he has determined that the other site is tangibly worse than playing in a 5k building and no gaurantees.

So it sounds like the second site is not that desirable

Not sure where you are trying to go with this. They are following the process that this needed to go through. We'll find out soon if it passes or not. There was no viable arena for them to play at(as was mentioned by someone else about Glendale), so the temporary situation with ASU is where the Coyotes are at. I don't really understand why people are so upset by this, it doesn't impact you in any way. The league will still make money, and continue to be in existence after this season, the next, and for many seasons to come.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So if they vote no (zero idea if that s likely) there is no good option to stay in Arizona

Why are you so binary in your thinking?

If Plan B even exists (we don't know for sure, it's just an educated guess), just because it isn't "as good" as TED doesn't mean "there's no good option to stay in Arizona".

Something can be less good but still acceptable.

If you're out at the bar you might prefer to try and get the blonde's number, but you're still happy to get the brunette's number if the blonde turns you down.

 

[Stumbledore]

Why are you so binary in your thinking?

If Plan B even exists (we don't know for sure, it's just an educated guess), just because it isn't "as good" as TED doesn't mean "there's no good option to stay in Arizona".

Something can be less good but still acceptable.

If you're out at the bar you might prefer to try and get the blonde's number, but you're still happy to get the brunette's number if the blonde turns you down.

And if you're a Coyotes fan, you're still happy to get the fat one whose hair is failing out.

 

[BMN]

If the vote were to be "no" somehow, anyone thinking that a--- a relocation would be certain and b--- would be swift if so clearly just joined the thread.

 

[Legion34]

Why are you so binary in your thinking?

If Plan B even exists (we don't know for sure, it's just an educated guess), just because it isn't "as good" as TED doesn't mean "there's no good option to stay in Arizona".

Something can be less good but still acceptable.

If you're out at the bar you might prefer to try and get the blonde's number, but you're still happy to get the brunette's number if the blonde turns you down.

It’s pretty simple.
People are saying there is some Magical hypothetical plan b that is good… but this plan has so many issues that you are delaying for a year with no gaurantees. Which means there is probably no good plan b

Plan A already has a lot of holes and challenges.

In your example

If you are trying to date the blonde… but you have to live in a car for an extra year and her roommates get to vote on whether you can move in 12 months later.

You probably didn’t have a perfectly acceptable brunette just waiting to date you

Seems like there is no plan b

 

[TheLegend]

It’s pretty simple.
People are saying there is some Magical hypothetical plan b that is good… but this plan has so many issues that you are delaying for a year with no gaurantees. Which means there is probably no good plan b

Plan A already has a lot of holes and challenges.

In your example

If you are trying to date the blonde… but you have to live in a car for an extra year and her roommates get to vote on whether you can move in 12 months later.

You probably didn’t have a perfectly acceptable brunette just waiting to date you

Seems like there is no plan b

There is nothing “magical”.

I watched the virtual press conference where Meruelo said he had two sites he was negotiating on. There are multiple people who know people within the franchise who say there is a plan B.

The mayor of Tempe commented early in the process about losing out on this project to a location “just across the city limits”.

But that’s all hearsay and I don’t give it much weight other than it’s there and that’s how I’m treating it.

If anyone wants to keep convincing themselves there’s no plan B at all then there’s no reason to try changing their minds.

 

[Legion34]

There is nothing “magical”.

I watched the virtual press conference where Meruelo said he had two sites he was negotiating on. There are multiple people who know people within the franchise who say there is a plan B.

The mayor of Tempe commented early in the process about losing out on this project to a location “just across the city limits”.

But that’s all hearsay and I don’t give it much weight other than it’s there and that’s how I’m treating it.

If anyone wants to keep convincing themselves there’s no plan B at all then there’s no reason to try changing their minds.

There can easily be a plan B….. I can write on a napkin and call it plan b.

It has to be a viable for the league as well as the team. The owners are already livid the players are livid

 

[GKJ]

Has there been any polling on this? Surely the day before that vote should produce something.

My guess is that it will pass. While it tends to be easier to vote for a not-change, it’s easier to build en enthusiasm for to be for something and not against it.

 

[Tawnos]

So if they vote no (zero idea if that s likely) there is no good option to stay in Arizona

There may not be, but it really isn’t in the team’s best interest to make any plan B public unless plan A fails. It would give some segment of the voting populace a reason to vote no, such as anyone who is invested in keeping the Coyotes in the area but not necessarily loving the TED plan. There are other possible reasons too. Meruelo & co have every incentive to hold a plan B very, very close to their chests.

Personally, I have some skepticism about the existence of a plan B that’s better for Meruelo than selling the team for relocation. There’s at least a decent chance a no-vote tomorrow results in tbe Coyotes leaving the market. But I won’t pretend this is more than a gut feeling that’s not based on any real knowledge.

 

[Legion34]

There may not be, but it really isn’t in the team’s best interest to make any plan B public unless plan A fails. It would give some segment of the voting populace a reason to vote no, such as anyone who is invested in keeping the Coyotes in the area but not necessarily loving the TED plan. There are other possible reasons too. Meruelo & co have every incentive to hold a plan B very, very close to their chests.

Personally, I have some skepticism about the existence of a plan B that’s better for Meruelo than selling the team for relocation. There’s at least a decent chance a no-vote tomorrow results in tbe Coyotes leaving the market. But I won’t pretend this is more than a gut feeling that’s not based on any real knowledge.

Jeff marek from 32 thoughts was talking on the air like the early vote means it’s likely to be yes.

Not sure if that’s true but he said they are confident

 

[Tawnos]

Jeff marek from 32 thoughts was talking on the air like the early vote means it’s likely to be yes.

Not sure if that’s true but he said they are confident

Good with me. Every major US market is important to have in the league. Hoping to see Houston and Atlanta by the end of the decade.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Hasn't it been said by people who look at the big picture that the success, or failure, of this whole project, of which the arena is just a small part of, is based on them being able to sell off all the real estate, including primarily, the housing development?

So if we take that as an assumption, we can then say, that any plan where the arena is either the only, or main, asset would not be feasible right?

So the question on this Plan B idea is......where is there another site that can offer not just the benefits that TED and the city are providing, but also the size of land needed for this scope of a project?

I think this is where the disbelief of an actual, and possible/plausible, Plan B comes into play.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Jeff marek from 32 thoughts was talking on the air like the early vote means it’s likely to be yes.

Not sure if that’s true but he said they are confident

I mean, historically for these kinds of referendums, big turnout usually leans no.

Or I should say low turnout leans yes, more than the other way.

And we're regurgitating the plan b talk? When we're days away from referendum results? Classic hf boh.

 

[Legion34]

I mean, historically for these kinds of referendums, big turnout usually leans no.

Or I should say low turnout leans yes, more than the other way.

And we're regurgitating the plan b talk? When were days away from referendum results. Classic hf boh.

I have no idea. Apparently lots of older mail in votes was supposed to lean no…

But marek sats he thinks it passes

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I have no idea. Apparently lots of older mail in votes was supposed to lean no…

But marek sats he thinks it passes

I'm leaning pass too, but big turnout shouldn't be taken as a good sign for Yes IMO. but that's related to much smaller town and smaller stakes projects I have experience with.

IMO referendums like this are really dumb. It shouldn't be left to the average voter. But it is a good test for the Coyotes communications staff.

 

[GordonGraham]

Will the results be known tomorrow or like most Arizona election take days or weeks to count the votes

 

[Tawnos]

I'm leaning pass too, but big turnout shouldn't be taken as a good sign for Yes IMO. but that's related to much smaller town and smaller stakes projects I have experience with.

IMO referendums like this are really dumb. It shouldn't be left to the average voter. But it is a good test for the Coyotes communications staff.

Ultimately a referendum was going to forced on them, good idea or not. Better to get it out of the way as early as they could.

 

[TheLegend]

There can easily be a plan B….. I can write on a napkin and call it plan b.

It has to be a viable for the league as well as the team. The owners are already livid the players are livid

Only people I see whom are ”livid” (and I get around the internet a lot) are:

1) Allan Walsh (he hates everything Arizona because he’s an agent and wants maximum income for himself via big contracts and thinks team like AZ are a hindrance to it.

2) Canadian media types from the Montreal/Toronto area. Because after Canadian teams get bounced from the playoffs they need another red meat source for their listeners and we’re an easy target.

3) People who don’t understand how this works.

4) People who have been waiting for the train wreck since 2009 to happen, and it keeps getting put on the siding.

 

[MNNumbers]

Just to try to clarify about the plan B thing.....

Either option....TED or this plan B, would require building an arena, so both would require a temporary home. Thus, to bring the Mullett arena idea into the conversation doesn't make sense.

Basically, if there is a plan B, what Meruelo has declared by going for TED first is that:
The possible $$ benefits long term from being at TED are better than,
The benefits from plan B.

Even though it might require longer at ASU/Mullett.

That's all. They were going to Mullett either way. Pretty simple.

 

[Legion34]

Only people I see whom are ”livid” (and I get around the internet a lot) are:

1) Allan Walsh (he hates everything Arizona because he’s an agent and wants maximum income for himself via big contracts and thinks team like AZ are a hindrance to it.

2) Canadian media types from the Montreal/Toronto area. Because after Canadian teams get bounced from the playoffs they need another red meat source for their listeners and we’re an easy target.

3) People who don’t understand how this works.

4) People who have been waiting for the train wreck since 2009 to happen, and it keeps getting put on the siding.

???? Multiple insiders openly speak how the players and owners are all complaining.

Seravalli is from Philly and he mentions it a lot

This has been an ongoing issue for a long time.

Just to try to clarify about the plan B thing.....

Either option....TED or this plan B, would require building an arena, so both would require a temporary home. Thus, to bring the Mullett arena idea into the conversation doesn't make sense.

Basically, if there is a plan B, what Meruelo has declared by going for TED first is that:
The possible $$ benefits long term from being at TED are better than,
The benefits from plan B.

Even though it might require longer at ASU/Mullett.

That's all. They were going to Mullett either way. Pretty simple.

Does the plan b require a vote?
If you had a ready to go spot you are delaying the construction and waiting for plan A

That’s why mullet is a part of it