CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[TheLegend]

I do find it odd that Tempe granted an option with a termination fee to Verde [predecessor] in 2013 which hasn't expired in the past decade since. Seems like questionable decision making by that previous Tempe council.

Certainly is… that why I mentioned it would be interesting to look at that agreement to see what the terms were.

 

[Llama19]

Coyotes, Glendale never were on same page, accelerating team's exit

To quote:

"The faces across the table changed, but any deal was dead on arrival.

Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo was combative in his first meeting with Glendale city manager Kevin Phelps, the government official recalled, after the businessman bought controlling interest in the NHL team in July 2019.

“The very first words when I sat down at the table,” Phelps said in an interview with The Arizona Republic. “He said, ‘I’m going to just say it right now. We’re not going to give you one more ‘blankety-blank’ dollar to play in this arena.’

“And that’s how he started out the meeting with me, to kind of be the meet-and-greet.”

Glendale made 3 offers to keep Coyotes

Phelps initially proposed four-way ownership of the arena with Glendale, the Coyotes, Westgate owner YAM Properties and arena manager ASM Global each owning a 25% stake.

In such a scenario, Phelps said, the Coyotes would bring 41 regular-season hockey games plus preseason and potentially postseason games; ASM would bring global management, ticketing and concert promoting; YAM would control areas outside the arena; and partial city ownership would keep the venue off the tax rolls and allow public funds to help with expenses like capital repairs.

The Coyotes dismissed the idea out of hand.

“Just summarily, ‘We have no interest in doing that,’” Phelps said.

Glendale then offered to sell the Coyotes full ownership of its arena, “at an incredibly discounted number, based on them staying there,” Phelps said.

“And they said, ‘No, we’ll buy it, but after we move into Tempe.’

“They literally told us they would actually probably sell it to a church or tear it down and put apartments,” Phelps said. “And they thought we would actually be OK with that.”

Glendale’s final pitch to keep the Coyotes, Phelps said, included whatever ownership stake Meruelo wanted in the arena, 10 acres of land for vertical development in Westgate and public money for arena renovations, matching whatever the Coyotes agreed to spend on their corporate offices, ice and a wellness center.

“And every time they kept saying no,” Phelps said. “They were so locked in at that point on Tempe. That’s why, to me, we knew going any further with the relationship just didn’t make sense.”"

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2023/05/09/what-happened-arizona-coyotes-glendale-arena/70181115007/

 

[Llama19]

Tempe was in a huge hurry to get Arizona Coyotes' development on the ballot. But why?

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2023/05/09/tempe-rush-election-for-arizona-coyotes-development-why/70196785007/

 

[TheLegend]

Coyotes, Glendale never were on same page, accelerating team's exit

To quote:

"The faces across the table changed, but any deal was dead on arrival.

Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo was combative in his first meeting with Glendale city manager Kevin Phelps, the government official recalled, after the businessman bought controlling interest in the NHL team in July 2019.

“The very first words when I sat down at the table,” Phelps said in an interview with The Arizona Republic. “He said, ‘I’m going to just say it right now. We’re not going to give you one more ‘blankety-blank’ dollar to play in this arena.’

“And that’s how he started out the meeting with me, to kind of be the meet-and-greet.”

Glendale made 3 offers to keep Coyotes

Phelps initially proposed four-way ownership of the arena with Glendale, the Coyotes, Westgate owner YAM Properties and arena manager ASM Global each owning a 25% stake.

In such a scenario, Phelps said, the Coyotes would bring 41 regular-season hockey games plus preseason and potentially postseason games; ASM would bring global management, ticketing and concert promoting; YAM would control areas outside the arena; and partial city ownership would keep the venue off the tax rolls and allow public funds to help with expenses like capital repairs.

The Coyotes dismissed the idea out of hand.

“Just summarily, ‘We have no interest in doing that,’” Phelps said.

Glendale then offered to sell the Coyotes full ownership of its arena, “at an incredibly discounted number, based on them staying there,” Phelps said.

“And they said, ‘No, we’ll buy it, but after we move into Tempe.’

“They literally told us they would actually probably sell it to a church or tear it down and put apartments,” Phelps said. “And they thought we would actually be OK with that.”

Glendale’s final pitch to keep the Coyotes, Phelps said, included whatever ownership stake Meruelo wanted in the arena, 10 acres of land for vertical development in Westgate and public money for arena renovations, matching whatever the Coyotes agreed to spend on their corporate offices, ice and a wellness center.

“And every time they kept saying no,” Phelps said. “They were so locked in at that point on Tempe. That’s why, to me, we knew going any further with the relationship just didn’t make sense.”"

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2023/05/09/what-happened-arizona-coyotes-glendale-arena/70181115007/

Oh my…. Always leaving out a key piece of the article….

But the relationship between Glendale and the Coyotes was irreparably fractured years earlier.

In June 2015, the Glendale City Council voted to void a 15-year arena lease and management agreement with the Coyotes less than two years after it had approved the $225 million deal. The decision to cancel the team-friendly contract, which paid the Coyotes $15 million per year to manage the arena, was based on an alleged conflict of interest involving an attorney who advised the city and was later hired by the team.

IF Meruelo was aware of that council action prior to purchasing the Coyotes then it’s quite reasonable for them to hold the position they did.

Article also avoids the key piece in that a stand-alone arena cannot support a franchise on its own.

Timing of this article is also quite interesting to say the least.

 

[TheLegend]

Tempe was in a huge hurry to get Arizona Coyotes' development on the ballot. But why?

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2023/05/09/tempe-rush-election-for-arizona-coyotes-development-why/70196785007/

Another desperate attempt by the No group and their supporters to cast shade.

The proposal was openly available for public comment for nearly 14 months. More than ample enough time.

The move to hold this election in May rather than August was to prevent any excessive delay tactics by opposition groups.

 

[Llama19]

 

[mouser]

I was curious to look at what impression prospective voters might get if they based their decision only on the information included in the official Election Publicity Pamphlet / Sample Ballot sent to all registered Tempe voters. People and organizations are able to submit opinions to vote Yes or No which are published in this pamphlet.

Excluding opinions directly from Coyotes employees, I could see these people and organizations as possibly being viewed as more authoritative sources by prospective voters:

Yes:
- Past four mayors of Tempe, Harry Mitchell (1978-1994), Neil Giuliano (1994-2004), Hugh Hallman (2004-2012), Mark Mitchell (2012-2020)
- Nine prior Tempe council members: Barbara Carter, Donald Cassano, Joseph Spracale, Johnny Hutson, Pam Goronkin, Shana Ellis, Linda Spears, Onnie Shekerjian, Robin Arrendondo-Savage
- United Brotherhood of Carpenters
- Greater Phoenix Urban League
- Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
- Chicanos Por La Causa (Arizona based community development and advocacy org)
- Black Chamber of Commerce
- Tempe Neighborhood Advisory Commission (this is a organized advisory commission to the Tempe city council)
- Michael Monti, of the landmark Monti's La Casa Vieja, he was very nearly elected Tempe mayor in 2012, losing by a couple hundred votes to Mark Mitchell

No
- Air Line Pilots Association International (non local, based in VA)
- Two AZ State Representatives: Athena Salman(D), Lorena Austin(D)
- Three AZ State Senators: Juan Mendez(D), Eva Burch(D), Mitzi Epstein(D)
- Two prior Tempe council members: Lauren Kuby, Barbara Sherman
- Worker Power (a Phoenix based Democratic PAC)
- Joyce Clark, Glendale council member

 

[Llama19]

I was curious to look at what impression prospective voters might get if they based their decision only on the information included in the official Election Publicity Pamphlet / Sample Ballot sent to all registered Tempe voters. People and organizations are able to submit opinions to vote Yes or No which are published in this pamphlet.

Excluding opinions directly from Coyotes employees, I could see these people and organizations as possibly being viewed as more authoritative sources by prospective voters:

Yes:
- Past four mayors of Tempe, Harry Mitchell (1978-1994), Neil Giuliano (1994-2004), Hugh Hallman (2004-2012), Mark Mitchell (2012-2020)
- Nine prior Tempe council members: Barbara Carter, Donald Cassano, Joseph Spracale, Johnny Hutson, Pam Goronkin, Shana Ellis, Linda Spears, Onnie Shekerjian, Robin Arrendondo-Savage
- United Brotherhood of Carpenters
- Greater Phoenix Urban League
- Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
- Chicanos Por La Causa (Arizona based community development and advocacy org)
- Black Chamber of Commerce
- Tempe Neighborhood Advisory Commission (this is a organized advisory commission to the Tempe city council)
- Michael Monti, of the landmark Monti's La Casa Vieja, he was very nearly elected Tempe mayor in 2012, losing by a couple hundred votes to Mark Mitchell

No
- Air Line Pilots Association International (non local, based in VA)
- Two AZ State Representatives: Athena Salman(D), Lorena Austin(D)
- Three AZ State Senators: Juan Mendez(D), Eva Burch(D), Mitzi Epstein(D)
- Two prior Tempe council members: Lauren Kuby, Barbara Sherman
- Worker Power (a Phoenix based Democratic PAC)
- Joyce Clark, Glendale council member

Not exactly unbiased...as these submissions (marked by an asterisk) were paid for by the Tempe Wins Committee Chair, Nick Bastian...

Yes:
* - Past four mayors of Tempe, Harry Mitchell (1978-1994), Neil Giuliano (1994-2004), Hugh Hallman (2004-2012), Mark Mitchell (2012-2020)
* - Nine prior Tempe council members: Barbara Carter, Donald Cassano, Joseph Spracale, Johnny Hutson, Pam Goronkin, Shana Ellis, Linda Spears, Onnie Shekerjian, Robin Arrendondo-Savage
- United Brotherhood of Carpenters
* - Greater Phoenix Urban League
* - Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
* - Chicanos Por La Causa (Arizona based community development and advocacy org)
* - Black Chamber of Commerce
* - Tempe Neighborhood Advisory Commission (this is a organized advisory commission to the Tempe city council)
* - Michael Monti, of the landmark Monti's La Casa Vieja, he was very nearly elected Tempe mayor in 2012, losing by a couple hundred votes to Mark Mitchell

In fact...if you review the Yes submissions...the majority of them were all paid for by the Tempe Wins Committee Chair, Nick Bastian...and very few Yes submissions...were from and paid by...actual Tempe residents...

 

[Fairview]

Not exactly unbiased...as these submissions (marked by an asterisk) were paid for by the Tempe Wins Committee Chair, Nick Bastian...

Yes:
* - Past four mayors of Tempe, Harry Mitchell (1978-1994), Neil Giuliano (1994-2004), Hugh Hallman (2004-2012), Mark Mitchell (2012-2020)
* - Nine prior Tempe council members: Barbara Carter, Donald Cassano, Joseph Spracale, Johnny Hutson, Pam Goronkin, Shana Ellis, Linda Spears, Onnie Shekerjian, Robin Arrendondo-Savage
- United Brotherhood of Carpenters
* - Greater Phoenix Urban League
* - Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
* - Chicanos Por La Causa (Arizona based community development and advocacy org)
* - Black Chamber of Commerce
* - Tempe Neighborhood Advisory Commission (this is a organized advisory commission to the Tempe city council)
* - Michael Monti, of the landmark Monti's La Casa Vieja, he was very nearly elected Tempe mayor in 2012, losing by a couple hundred votes to Mark Mitchell

In fact...if you review the Yes submissions...the majority of them were all paid for by the Tempe Wins Committee Chair, Nick Bastian...and very few Yes submissions...were from and paid by...actual Tempe residents...

I can’t believe that people would not realize that the support of those guys was bought and paid for. Especially the mayors

 

[mouser]

Not exactly unbiased...as these submissions (marked by an asterisk) were paid for by the Tempe Wins Committee Chair, Nick Bastian...

The opinions were solicited by Tempe Wins, that doesn’t mean every person who submitted an opinion was compensated by Tempe Wins.

Either way, I doubt that makes much difference to the average voter reading the pamphlet.

 

[TheLegend]

Not exactly unbiased...as these submissions (marked by an asterisk) were paid for by the Tempe Wins Committee Chair, Nick Bastian...

Yes:
* - Past four mayors of Tempe, Harry Mitchell (1978-1994), Neil Giuliano (1994-2004), Hugh Hallman (2004-2012), Mark Mitchell (2012-2020)
* - Nine prior Tempe council members: Barbara Carter, Donald Cassano, Joseph Spracale, Johnny Hutson, Pam Goronkin, Shana Ellis, Linda Spears, Onnie Shekerjian, Robin Arrendondo-Savage
- United Brotherhood of Carpenters
* - Greater Phoenix Urban League
* - Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
* - Chicanos Por La Causa (Arizona based community development and advocacy org)
* - Black Chamber of Commerce
* - Tempe Neighborhood Advisory Commission (this is a organized advisory commission to the Tempe city council)
* - Michael Monti, of the landmark Monti's La Casa Vieja, he was very nearly elected Tempe mayor in 2012, losing by a couple hundred votes to Mark Mitchell

Non-sequitur... and a strawman on top of it. All of them already publicly endorsed TED well ahead of the pamphlets going out.

Not unlike someone stepping up to a podium in a city council meeting once and giving a big shoutout to the posters on HFBoards and included a screenname or two.

In fact...if you review the Yes submissions...the majority of them were all paid for by the Tempe Wins Committee Chair, Nick Bastian...and very few Yes submissions...were from and paid by...actual Tempe residents...

Oh?? And when did a sitting Glendale city councilwoman move to Tempe???

I also understand she's not the only non-Tempe resident who submitted a no argument.

 

[PredsHead]

The opinions were solicited by Tempe Wins, that doesn’t mean every person who submitted an opinion was compensated by Tempe Wins.

Either way, I doubt that makes much difference to the average voter reading the pamphlet.

I could be wrong but I believe it costs $100 to have an opinion listed in the pamphlet. All the ones which Llama highlighted had the $100 paid for by Tempe Wins.

 

[Legion34]

Is there any indication polls etc how the vote may be going?
With 25% in… wouldn’t they have exit polls?

 

[mouser]

Is there any indication polls etc how the vote may be going?
With 25% in… wouldn’t they have exit polls?

It‘s a mail-in election. Can’t do exit polls.

 

[Legion34]

It‘s a mail-in election. Can’t do exit polls.

Oh fair enough thank you

 

[TheLegend]

I could be wrong but I believe it costs $100 to have an opinion listed in the pamphlet. All the ones which Llama highlighted had the $100 paid for by Tempe Wins.

$100 written. $75 if delivered electronically. It helps cover the costs to putting it in the pamphlet and printing.

And so what if Tempe Wins covered that cost? Nobody is profiting off it.

So it's still a non-sequitur.

 

[PredsHead]

$100 written. $75 if delivered electronically. It helps cover the costs to putting it in the pamphlet and printing.

And so what if Tempe Wins covered that cost? Nobody is profiting off it.

So it's still a non-sequitur.

Mouser listed some folks whose opinions should bear more weight than others to the casual voter and pointing out that those opinions were solicited and their fee was paid for by one side is somehow a non-sequitur? That would be information I would want as a Tempe voter.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I can’t believe that people would not realize that the support of those guys was bought and paid for. Especially the mayors

Do You think they bought the firefighters endorsement? How much do you think it was, then? Lemme guess, all the No endorsements are the only ones that aren't somehow "corrupt", right?

You relocationsitas are such hypocrites.

 

[mouser]

Mouser listed some folks whose opinions should bear more weight than others to the casual voter and pointing out that those opinions were solicited and their fee was paid for by one side is somehow a non-sequitur? That would be information I would want as a Tempe voter.

Again, going back to the average voters, I don’t believe who paid a $75 filing fee would matter to the average voter. That’s not going to cause any of the people who submitted opinions to suddenly change their view from No to Yes.

Plus the vast majority of these Yes people and organizations already expressed support for TED well before the referendum became official.

Unless there’s an accusation that any of these folks/organizations were “bribed” to change their opinion from No to Yes, I think it’s a nothingburger to focus on who paid the $75 filing fee to have their opinion included in the election pamphlet.

I have no doubt Tempe 1st also solicited opinions for the pamphlet. Only difference being they didn’t cover the $75 filing fee. That doesn’t make those opinions any less or more valid.

 

[TheLegend]

Again, going back to the average voters, I don’t believe who paid a $75 filing fee would matter to the average voter. That’s not going to cause any of the people who submitted opinions to suddenly change their view from No to Yes.

Plus the vast majority of these Yes people and organizations already expressed support for TED well before the referendum became official.

Unless there’s an accusation that any of these folks/organizations were “bribed” to change their opinion from No to Yes, I think it’s a nothingburger to focus on who paid the $75 filing fee to have their opinion included in the election pamphlet.

I have no doubt Tempe 1st also solicited opinions for the pamphlet. Only difference being they didn’t cover the $75 filing fee.

That anyone knows of....

That's why I'm saying this is a non-sequitur.

 

[PredsHead]

Again, going back to the average voters, I don’t believe who paid a $75 filing fee would matter to the average voter. That’s not going to cause any of the people who submitted opinions to suddenly change their view from No to Yes.

Plus the vast majority of these Yes people and organizations already expressed support for TED well before the referendum became official.

Unless there’s an accusation that any of these folks/organizations were “bribed” to change their opinion from No to Yes, I think it’s a nothingburger to focus on who paid the $75 filing fee to have their opinion included in the election pamphlet.

I have no doubt Tempe 1st also solicited opinions for the pamphlet. Only difference being they didn’t cover the $75 filing fee. That doesn’t make those opinions any less or more valid.

The few people who actually take the time to read the pamphlet probably already had their minds made up and are just looking to find dirt to throw on the other side, But yeah if I opened my pamphlet and all but a few of the "Yes" opinions were paid for by Meruelo and many of the the "Yes" were people who actually work for for him it would make me wonder how much actual support there was for this. Sure many of these people publicly supported the project but apparently none of them were willing to put $75 down to have the voters know that.

 

[mouser]

Again, going back to the average voters, I don’t believe who paid a $75 filing fee would matter to the average voter. That’s not going to cause any of the people who submitted opinions to suddenly change their view from No to Yes.

Plus the vast majority of these Yes people and organizations already expressed support for TED well before the referendum became official.

Unless there’s an accusation that any of these folks/organizations were “bribed” to change their opinion from No to Yes, I think it’s a nothingburger to focus on who paid the $75 filing fee to have their opinion included in the election pamphlet.

I have no doubt Tempe 1st also solicited opinions for the pamphlet. Only difference being they didn’t cover the $75 filing fee. That doesn’t make those opinions any less or more valid.

One other angle I hadn‘t given prior thought to: the Tempe Wins inclusion in the ballot opinions probably has nothing to do with the $75 filing fee.

I suspect it was more likely a calculated decision to organize the most influential supporters under a unified messaging umbrella of “Tempe Wins”. That pairs well with the media ads and Tempe Wins elections signs.

I could easily see an election/political strategist recommending that approach, where the individual ballot opinions and PR campaign can reinforce each other.

 

[mouser]

Tempe was in a huge hurry to get Arizona Coyotes' development on the ballot. But why?

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2023/05/09/tempe-rush-election-for-arizona-coyotes-development-why/70196785007/

Noticed this opinion piece in the AZ Republic was authored by Athena Salman—one of the two Arizona State Representatives to file a No opinion on the election pamphlet.

 

[TheLegend]

Noticed this opinion piece in the AZ Republic was authored by Athena Salman—one of the two Arizona State Representatives to file a No opinion on the election pamphlet.

It's her second op-ed. Last one was a word salad of figures she was claiming TED was going to cost taxpayers.

 

[Llama19]

Risk vs. reward: Coyotes deal financially favors the team, but is far safer for Tempe

Paywalled...but just listing the Pros and Cons headings:

Pro: Tempe can't lose existing cash
Con: Tempe could be overcontributing new taxes by $64M

Pro: Tempe gets a risky piece of land off its books
Con: Tempe could be selling the land for less than it's worth

Pro: Tempe's project has safeguards, won't turn out like Glendale's
Con: Coyotes could use a loophole, turn profit with public dollars

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/05/10/risk-vs-reward-how-do-the-terms-of-the-coyotes-deal-impact-tempe/70181210007/