CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[PredsHead]

Any insights onto the actual results (polls, etc.)?

Nope, I'm not aware of any polling that was done. I believe the results of the mail-in voting will be released after the polls close on the 16th.

 

[Llama19]

Looks like the turnout is high so far.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Tom Duensing sighting!

 

[Tawnos]

 

[TheLegend]

Context: Carvana supposedly had an option on a portion of the land that makes up the 43 acre parcel for TED.

Except…..

The city never granted such an option…. according this paragraph in the DDA….



I would presume then that the $10 million dollar amount shown in the graphic had to be placed there as a contingency in case this item did come up and since the bonds would be covering it the city taxpayers would not get the bill. And if it doesn’t, it means that’s $10 million less in bonds to be sold.

Not the first time Kuby has stretched the truth.

 

[TheLegend]

Tom Duensing sighting!

View attachment 703230

For those wondering....

Tom Duensing used to work in Glendale's city department and knows a LOT about the past negotiations between the Coyotes and Glendale. As well as working on this DDA with Tempe. So he does have a unique position in this.

Ton Keating (current Tempe councilman) mentioned offhand in a video podcast a while back that Duensing believes this DDA is far better than anything Glendale and the previous owners of the Coyotes ever did.

 

[PredsHead]

Context: Carvana supposedly had an option on a portion of the land that makes up the 43 acre parcel for TED.

Except…..

The city never granted such an option…. according this paragraph in the DDA….

View attachment 703255

I would presume then that the $10 million dollar amount shown in the graphic had to be placed there as a contingency in case this item did come up and since the bonds would be covering it the city taxpayers would not get the bill. And if it doesn’t, it means that’s $10 million less in bonds to be sold.

Not the first time Kuby has stretched the truth.

I could be wrong, but I believe they do have to pay that $10M. If you look at the RFP on page 6 it says:
"As stated above, the City-owned land consists of two parcels with the City’s Priest Yard on Maricopa County Assessor Parcel No. 124-27-013. This parcel is subject to certain rights pursuant to that certain Development and Disposition Agreement (Multiple Parcels Near the Corner of Rio Salado Parkway and Priest Drive) dated February 14, 2013 and recorded on March 18, 2013 as Maricopa County Official Recorder’s No. 20130246646. The aforementioned rights are currently held by Verde Investments, Inc., an Arizona corporation, pursuant to that certain Assignment and Assumption of Interest in Development and Disposition Agreement dated August 2, 2019 and recorded on August 2, 2019 as Maricopa County Official Recorder’s No. 20190592025. The proposal must include respondent’s plan for acquisition of this parcel, proposed financing for doing so and acquiescence from Verde Investments, Inc., or current entity that holds the aforementioned rights"
https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/91767/637662016119370000

It is also listed in the DDA as part of the bond as you can see in the attached picture.

 

[TheLegend]

I could be wrong, but I believe they do have to pay that $10M. If you look at the RFP on page 6 it says:
"As stated above, the City-owned land consists of two parcels with the City’s Priest Yard on Maricopa County Assessor Parcel No. 124-27-013. This parcel is subject to certain rights pursuant to that certain Development and Disposition Agreement (Multiple Parcels Near the Corner of Rio Salado Parkway and Priest Drive) dated February 14, 2013 and recorded on March 18, 2013 as Maricopa County Official Recorder’s No. 20130246646. The aforementioned rights are currently held by Verde Investments, Inc., an Arizona corporation, pursuant to that certain Assignment and Assumption of Interest in Development and Disposition Agreement dated August 2, 2019 and recorded on August 2, 2019 as Maricopa County Official Recorder’s No. 20190592025. The proposal must include respondent’s plan for acquisition of this parcel, proposed financing for doing so and acquiescence from Verde Investments, Inc., or current entity that holds the aforementioned rights"
https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/91767/637662016119370000

It is also listed in the DDA as part of the bond as you can see in the attached picture.

The DDA is what's important at this point.... not the RFP.

And I said the item was listed as part of the bonds.. Just because it's there doesn't mean it's going to be paid.

Verde is a commercial real estate broker and management company. IOW... they facilitate getting commercial office buildings and the like built plus manage them for whatever client. Ten years ago they entered into a DDA with the city to purchase and develop a portion of where TED is going (that wasn't part of the landfill) and have since done nothing with it. But haven't done anything with it since. Carvana might have once looked at expanding from their current building across the street but as of now they're about to go under and are pulling their operation out of Tempe all together.

Nevertheless.... the city still owns the land. Not Verde. All Verde has (AIUI) is agreement to purchase the land and develop it .... IF.... they can find a client wanting to be there. In ten years they haven't.

Now that might get into looking into that DDA and see what sort of conditions/limits it has. But for now it's just fodder for the Tempe1st (nee Lauren Kuby) to blow out there.

 

[PredsHead]

The DDA is what's important at this point.... not the RFP.

And I said the item was listed as part of the bonds.. Just because it's there doesn't mean it's going to be paid.

Verde is a commercial real estate broker and management company. IOW... they facilitate getting commercial office buildings and the like built plus manage them for whatever client. Ten years ago they entered into a DDA with the city to purchase and develop a portion of where TED is going (that wasn't part of the landfill) and have since done nothing with it. But haven't done anything with it since. Carvana might have once looked at expanding from their current building across the street but as of now they're about to go under and are pulling their operation out of Tempe all together.

Nevertheless.... the city still owns the land. Not Verde. All Verde has (AIUI) is agreement to purchase the land and develop it .... IF.... they can find a client wanting to be there. In ten years they haven't.

Now that might get into looking into that DDA and see what sort of conditions/limits it has. But for now it's just fodder for the Tempe1st (nee Lauren Kuby) to blow out there.

No one is saying the city doesn't own the land, what it appears is that Verde acquired the option to develop part of the TED property and has to be paid to relinquish that option. Verde it looks like is owned by Ernie Garcia II which is the father of Ernie Garcia III who started Carvana.

 

[PredsHead]

No idea what any of the party designation stuff means to how the vote will turn out, but will be interesting to see if that number of 18 to 34 returns stays close to that low. I could be completely wrong but I would think that the older voter would skew towards no and the younger voter would skew towards yes.

 

[TheLegend]

No one is saying the city doesn't own the land, what it appears is that Verde acquired the option to develop part of the TED property and has to be paid to relinquish that option. Verde it looks like is owned by Ernie Garcia II which is the father of Ernie Garcia III who started Carvana.

Which is why I said you need to look at the 2013 DDA between Verde and the city to see what sort or conditions (if any) might apply.

Then go back to Kuby’s little Twitter thread and you’ll see how she’s spinning this as something else.

 

[PredsHead]

Which is why I said you need to look at the 2013 DDA between Verde and the city to see what sort or conditions (if any) might apply.

Then go back to Kuby’s little Twitter thread and you’ll see how she’s spinning this as something else.

Wouldn't the city attorney have done just that before issuing the RFP and signing the DDA both of which clearly reference this? If this didn't apply they wouldn't have included it.

 

[TheLegend]

Wouldn't the city attorney have done just that before issuing the RFP and signing the DDA both of which clearly reference this? If this didn't apply they wouldn't have included it.

Well the clauses are in the DDA for a reason.

Kuby is just thinking she can use this as shade on the proposal.

BTW… she’s tried running this item before in an obtuse way and got a ton of pushback about it.

She’s trying to claim TED will take real money away from Tempe for things like “parks, etc…etc…”.

Except the bonds are there to cover it and TED is covering the bonds. Even though it isn’t Meruelo’s fault Verde has sat on the option for a decade without any movement and Tempe can’t be expected to wait forever.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

My gut is big turnout isn't good news for the TED, but that's based on nothing, lol.

 

[PredsHead]

Well the clauses are in the DDA for a reason.

Kuby is just thinking she can use this as shade on the proposal.

BTW… she’s tried running this item before in an obtuse way and got a ton of pushback about it.

She’s trying to claim TED will take real money away from Tempe for things like “parks, etc…etc…”.

Except the bonds are there to cover it and TED is covering the bonds. Even though it isn’t Meruelo’s fault Verde has sat on the option for a decade without any movement and Tempe can’t be expected to wait forever.

Yes the clause in the DDA specifies this is the only known option on the property, and the RFP specifies that this must be dealt with as part of the proposal. Not sure how much clearer you need it.

Those bonds will largely be paid back with diverted tax dollars from TED no? If Meruelo were paying this $10M that would be something close to $10M in taxes not diverted from Tempe, no?

I keep hearing that no one ever even wanted this piece of property, but clearly Verde wanted at least an option on it. Between the $10M option the city gave out, the active city facilities still in use onsite and the requirement of an pro sports arena with a tenant in the RFP how hard has the city really tried to get anything else built on this property over the last 10 years?

 

[Final Baton]

@Tom ServoMST3K Same for me. Just my prediction

My gut is big turnout isn't good news for the TED, but that's based on nothing, lol.

 

[TheLegend]

My gut is big turnout isn't good news for the TED, but that's based on nothing, lol.

Oh it’s a crap shoot at this point.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes the clause in the DDA specifies this is the only known option on the property, and the RFP specifies that this must be dealt with as part of the proposal. Not sure how much clearer you need it.

It’s clear as mud. For all we know it’s been dealt with.

Those bonds will largely be paid back with diverted tax dollars from TED no? If Meruelo were paying this $10M that would be something close to $10M in taxes not diverted from Tempe, no?

The bonds are paid back from three sources with the portion of sales tax being only one.

I keep hearing that no one ever even wanted this piece of property, but clearly Verde wanted at least an option on it. Between the $10M option the city gave out, the active city facilities still in use onsite and the requirement of an pro sports arena with a tenant in the RFP how hard has the city really tried to get anything else built on this property over the last 10 years?

Verde was there to possibly aid with the future expansion of Carvana. But that’s a ship that’s hit a preverbal iceberg and is sinking fast.

Has the city tried to recruit anyone? Don’t know.

But nobody…. including Verde…. has apparently bothered to approach the city with a plan. All the former mayors have said as much.

 

[Stumbledore]

Nope, I'm not aware of any polling that was done. I believe the results of the mail-in voting will be released after the polls close on the 16th.

How long after that before some Arizona politicians claim it was a rigged election and the results were stolen by the [exaggerated insulting labels] faction?

 

[TheLegend]

How long after that before some Arizona politicians claim it was a rigged election and the results were stolen by the [exaggerated insulting labels] faction?

Oh that’s a daily thing here….

 

[PredsHead]

How long after that before some Arizona politicians claim it was a rigged election and the results were stolen by the [exaggerated insulting labels] faction?

Before the newscaster finishes reading the story on the late local news if I had my guesses.

 

[GordonGraham]

If 45% plus of the voter are over 65 that has to be good news for the no side right ?

 

[Stumbledore]

If 45% plus of the voter are over 65 that has to be good news for the no side right ?

Do you ever get to wonder if it would make more sense to limit voting to people under 65 when it comes to long-range, multi-year developments?

Look at Britain, where the folks under 50 voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, but Brexit carried largely because of the white haired crowd. Old folks who will not be greatly affected by all the lost opportunities.

 

[GordonGraham]

Do you ever get to wonder if it would make more sense to limit voting to people under 65 when it comes to long-range, multi-year developments?

Look at Britain, where the folks under 50 voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, but Brexit carried largely because of the white haired crowd. Old folks who will not be greatly affected by all the lost opportunities.

Not at all if it were up to me and my political opinions no one under 30 should vote

 

[mouser]

Well the clauses are in the DDA for a reason.

Kuby is just thinking she can use this as shade on the proposal.

BTW… she’s tried running this item before in an obtuse way and got a ton of pushback about it.

She’s trying to claim TED will take real money away from Tempe for things like “parks, etc…etc…”.

Except the bonds are there to cover it and TED is covering the bonds. Even though it isn’t Meruelo’s fault Verde has sat on the option for a decade without any movement and Tempe can’t be expected to wait forever.

I do find it odd that Tempe granted an option with a termination fee to Verde [predecessor] in 2013 which hasn't expired in the past decade since. Seems like questionable decision making by that previous Tempe council.