CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[TheLegend]

No, it does NOT leave 13 owners without ties to hockey. Geez, for someone who whines about other people twisting facts....

I referenced Chipman's quote about how many of the old fat governors played hockey before buying into the NHL. That does NOT mean the other owners have no connection with the NHL.

Quit making shit up, Legend. You used to be much more reliable than this.

What’s twisting the fact… your post said 19 owners.

That leaves 13 unless basic math has changed.

Frankly I don’t care…. it’s a business like anything else and the only real connection is $$$$$$$

 

[TheLegend]

No he just writes what the Coyotes tell him to , to suit their narrative. He’s never written anything even remotely negative about the team. I can understand that because that’s how NHL teams operate everywhere. You want access to the team, you be nice. Most of us remember his most slanted story ever. Right after Glendale cancelled the golden subsidy for cause, he suggested that Glendale should reverse their decision and throw themselves at Tonys feet and ask for mercy. Real good sources on that one too. If there was a poll suggesting the Tempe citizens actually support this as is, then the team would be crazy not to make the results and the pollsters public. After all, everyone tends to support the winning side. Instead they have their mouthpiece make a vague unsubstantiated claim and leave it at that.
Do you have anything to further support the teams claim other than the vague references made? Exactly whom from the city did he talk with?

No…. He writes something you don’t want to hear so that makes him a “cheerleader”.

His article on Glendale contained comments from at least three or four local attorneys who told him the Coyotes had grounds to fight that termination. THAT’S what he reported. Sure… we had CasualFan here who actually did the research to show the COI clause was a state mandated and couldn’t be overridden even though COG gave Craig Tindall a waiver to such.

And I eventually agreed with CF on that unless you’ve conveniently forgotten.

BTW…. there were TWO recent polls…. not one.

 

[Fairview]

No…. He writes something you don’t want to hear so that makes him a “cheerleader”.

His article on Glendale contained comments from at least three or four local attorneys who told him the Coyotes had grounds to fight that termination. THAT’S what he reported. Sure… we had CasualFan here who actually did the research to show the COI clause was a state mandated and couldn’t be overridden even though COG gave Craig Tindall a waiver to such.

And I eventually agreed with CF on that unless you’ve conveniently forgotten.

BTW…. there were TWO recent polls…. not one.

Could you actually cite either of the polls that you mention or is this just an example of you believing what you want to hear?
And as far as me calling him a cheerleader because he writes things I don’t want to hear..what is it that you and the fanboy club call national reporters that dare to write anything negative?
You have your narrative and believe what you choose to believe and I can believe what I choose to believe as well. I guess time will tell if this goes to a referendum. Why is the team supporting a referendum now, after saying just a couple of weeks ago that they had the council votes to pass it? They expected to start excavation in Dec I recall. This Idea that they want it to ward off any legal challenge doesn’t hold water. They had to know that there will be injunctions as soon as it’s approved so why even come out and say they wanted to start by the end of the year?

 

[Stumbledore]

What’s twisting the fact… your post said 19 owners.

That leaves 13 unless basic math has changed.

Frankly I don’t care…. it’s a business like anything else and the only real connection is $$$$$$$

So now it's "frankly I don't care"?

Wow, when the number one shill for the Coyotes proclaims that he doesn't care, it tells you he's been caught out lying again.

And to think you used to be an accurate source of information...

 

[Legion34]

Is there seriously still one poster who is somehow convinced this is going well?

 

[mouser]

Is there seriously still one poster who is somehow convinced this is going well?

The bottom line is none of us know precisely whether or not it’s going well and to what degree. The thread has been overly driven by speculation recently, both optimistic and pessimistic speculation.

We will hopefully have a more clear picture at the end of the month if the Tempe city council announces their decision as rumored.

 

[TheLegend]

So now it's "frankly I don't care"?

Wow, when the number one shill for the Coyotes proclaims that he doesn't care, it tells you he's been caught out lying again.

And to think you used to be an accurate source of information...

So I’m a “shill” now??

Name something I’ve posted that has been deliberately deceiving.

I’ll wait…..

In the meantime. Like @mouser just posted above…. I really don’t know how this will turn out. What is being reported appears to be trending positive but I’ve been there before.

And until more details come out as to how the project will be financed I don’t even know if I’ll like it. Craig Morgan has written the Coyotes have made more concessions towards Tempe, but how much? Is it enough to convince the council and the residents of Tempe? Who knows?

 

[Stumbledore]

So I’m a “shill” now??

Name something I’ve posted that has been deliberately deceiving.

I’ll wait…..

Okay, so you don't have to wait until the morning, look at #196.

But you'll pull the "frankly I don't care" shit again whenever you're caught lying or proven wrong.

 

[Ciao]

Is the arena vote in Tempe a slam dunk ? Or could this get refused and the team will have to move ?

It's hard to imagine that Tempe would come this far and then dump the project.

I'm sure it's not a slam dunk, but I would be very surprised if the arena project in Tempe does not proceed.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Bullshit. The majority of NHL owners have a solid connection to hockey, many of them having played the game as boys.

Instead of sneering at people to "Try harder", perhaps you could try some facts instead of making up bullshit.

I am sure some of them have played the game. But this isn’t nostalgia for them, it’s business.

 

[aqib]

Mate, you've won. You got the Jets back, and have had them back for a decade. It's so obvious the way that you galavanted in here saying that Arizona deserved to be moved yesterday, completely ignoring points and facts to the contrary, and continue this quixotic crusade that it still isn't enough.

As a Browns fan, I have to say that I still cheer for anything bad that happens to the Ravens. We had a 3 year hiatus that ended 23 years ago and we had a definitive date for the return of the team the entire time. Even then I hate the Ravens.

Go ask any living Brooklyn Dodgers fans how they feel about O'Malley. I remember reading and article in the Boston Globe back in the 90s when inter-league play began and the Braves made their first trip to Boston and there as a club called "Boston Braves Historical Society" and one of the members said "the wrong team left Boston"

No matter what the grudge against relocated teams never goes away.

 

[aqib]

THE QUESTION isn't so much the next owner of the Senators or whether LaBreton Flats gets an arena.... what is the long-term future of the Canadian Tire Centre once the other arena is up and running much like Diamond Desert Arena in Glendale after the Coyotes are not the primary tenant draw now....

The Sens own the Canadian Tire Centre so they would probably tear it down. They don't need a small arena for OHL since they already have TD Place for the OHL team.

 

[StreetHawk]

The Sens own the Canadian Tire Centre so they would probably tear it down. They don't need a small arena for OHL since they already have TD Place for the OHL team.

The CTC can be sold off in separate transaction. Or the new owner has to purchase it now and then sell it after they build the new arena. The building would either be repurposed for something else or torn down if it doesn’t fit into the redevelopment plans of the area.

 

[Ernie]

The fact that Craig Morgan tried to spin this referendum as good news tells you all you need to know about his impartiality. It is unquestionably bad news.

Let's be clear - he will lose his long time career if this stadium deal does not happen. That's a hell of an incentive to be a cheerleader.

Given his lapses in journalistic integrity, it's pretty fair to question whether he's telling the whole story when it comes to the lawyers he talked to regarding the Sky Harbor agreement. For all we know he's just spitting back what the Coyotes legal team told him to say.

 

[Lions67]

I feel I need to step in for a second to defend TheLegend ‘s choice of words when he said “frankly I don’t even care”. Now correct me if I am wrong here but I believe that all he meant when he said that was he could care less if they have played the game or not, is as long as they are paying for the club who cares?
As long as they can pay it doesn’t matter.

 

[TheLegend]

The fact that Craig Morgan tried to spin this referendum as good news tells you all you need to know about his impartiality. It is unquestionably bad news.

Let's be clear - he will lose his long time career if this stadium deal does not happen. That's a hell of an incentive to be a cheerleader.

Given his lapses in journalistic integrity, it's pretty fair to question whether he's telling the whole story when it comes to the lawyers he talked to regarding the Sky Harbor agreement. For all we know he's just spitting back what the Coyotes legal team told him to say.

Of course when something that’s flys in the face or something that’s opposite of someone’s narrative it’s always chalked up as “spin”. Especially when there’s a lack of any real evidence to the contrary.

I see more spinning in your post than anything.

But I also keep reminding myself this is the megathread.

 

[TheLegend]

I feel I need to step in for a second to defend TheLegend ‘s choice of words when he said “frankly I don’t even care”. Now correct me if I am wrong here but I believe that all he meant when he said that was he could care less if they have played the game or not, is as long as they are paying for the club who cares?
As long as they can pay it doesn’t matter.

Close…

My point was in today’s age owning a sports franchise doesn’t require possessing any prior connection to that sport.

Some of the more purist types seem to believe it’s a requirement and in the early days it might have been true. But not anymore.

It’s all about the money now and those who have it and are willing to spend it rule the day.

 

[Fairview]

Of course when something that’s flys in the face or something that’s opposite of someone’s narrative it’s always chalked up as “spin”. Especially when there’s a lack of any real evidence to the contrary.

I see more spinning in your post than anything.

But I also keep reminding myself this is the megathread.

The spin is coming from these 2 mysterious polls suggesting that there is support for the project. You have presented those as fact but still have not properly cited the polls. As far as we can tell, the source you are presenting for those polls is from a proven strong supporter of the team. A properly conducted poll would be from a neutral party. But of course that doesn’t support your narrative. So, I’ll ask again, could you provide a link to the source for the 2 polls that you are promoting?

 

[TheLegend]

The spin is coming from these 2 mysterious polls suggesting that there is support for the project. You have presented those as fact but still have not properly cited the polls. As far as we can tell, the source you are presenting for those polls is from a proven strong supporter of the team. A properly conducted poll would be from a neutral party. But of course that doesn’t support your narrative. So, I’ll ask again, could you provide a link to the source for the 2 polls that you are promoting?

Who said I was ever promoting them?

I’m looking at why would Tempe put this to a referendum and the one thought I had was (based upon Craig Morgan’s article) because they had two recents polls done they feel comfortable it would be approved.

That… and having your residents be in favor of the proposal is yet another asset to have should Phoenix (Sky Harbor) try to take it to litigation.

Phoenix obviously senses that or why else would have gone on a PR scare campaign and sent out pamphlets to Tempe (AND Scottsdale) residents asserting they would have to permanently alter fight paths over their neighborhoods because of the project.

Which IMNSHO is a bogus claim since the data that’s already publicly available shows the project does not intrude on any of the flight space now. Except for the 21 days a crane will penetrate it during the construction.

 

[Fairview]

Who said I was ever promoting them?

I’m looking at why would Tempe put this to a referendum and the one thought I had was (based upon Craig Morgan’s article) because they had two recents polls done they feel comfortable it would be approved.

That… and having your residents be in favor of the proposal is yet another asset to have should Phoenix (Sky Harbor) try to take it to litigation.

Phoenix obviously senses that or why else would have gone on a PR scare campaign and sent out pamphlets to Tempe (AND Scottsdale) residents asserting they would have to permanently alter fight paths over their neighborhoods because of the project.

Which IMNSHO is a bogus claim since the data that’s already publicly available shows the project does not intrude on any of the flight space now. Except for the 21 days a crane will penetrate it during the construction.

Of course, why even have the referendum if they are so confident? Litigation will not be limited to the results of the referendum and just a few weeks ago Bettman and Xman were confident that the vote at the end of this month would conclude the deal. And just like that , they are supporting a further delay of likely 6 months on the suspicion that there will be litigation and a positive referendum will support their case? This just came up in the last 2 weeks apparently because as I said they expected to be pushing ahead before the end of next month.
It would be interesting to see who was polled because, according to you, nothing has really been finalized in the negotiation , so what could they possibly poll that would have any relevance? Furthermore just a general observation, but the amount of tax assistance and public money likely being requested here would be a very tough sell. If you are not a hockey fan, and I would guess the vast majority of the residents in the polling area are not hockey fans, why vote for yet another arena in an area already served by the Suns building and the ASU rink , not to mention Glendale arena ? This brings up the way the RFP was presented, redo the RFP with more open requirements and see what they get.
This project may well get accepted but if it does it will be from a council vote at the end of this month. I suspect Meruelo will be pulling out all the stops and greasing the palms that he needs to grease to get a “ yes” vote rather than the referendum.

 

[TheLegend]

Of course, why even have the referendum if they are so confident? Litigation will not be limited to the results of the referendum and just a few weeks ago Bettman and Xman were confident that the vote at the end of this month would conclude the deal. And just like that , they are supporting a further delay of likely 6 months on the suspicion that there will be litigation and a positive referendum will support their case? This just came up in the last 2 weeks apparently because as I said they expected to be pushing ahead before the end of next month.
It would be interesting to see who was polled because, according to you, nothing has really been finalized in the negotiation , so what could they possibly poll that would have any relevance? Furthermore just a general observation, but the amount of tax assistance and public money likely being requested here would be a very tough sell. If you are not a hockey fan, and I would guess the vast majority of the residents in the polling area are not hockey fans, why vote for yet another arena in an area already served by the Suns building and the ASU rink , not to mention Glendale arena ? This brings up the way the RFP was presented, redo the RFP with more open requirements and see what they get.
This project may well get accepted but if it does it will be from a council vote at the end of this month. I suspect Meruelo will be pulling out all the stops and greasing the palms that he needs to grease to get a “ yes” vote rather than the referendum.

You don’t truly understand how an RFP works.

The Coyotes came to Tempe and informally negotiated with city staff for nearly two years on this project. Once they got to the point where the formal negotiations needed to begin the city filed the RFP (as required by state law) to start that process.

Essentially it’s the city proclaiming “we have an offer to develop this property with these parameters”, and if there’s anyone else who would like to submit a proposal to meet (or even exceed) those standards you may do so now.”

There is nothing mystic about that.

If Meruelo wanted to put a tuxedo shop on the site the RFP would have specified that.

You seem to have a problem with how this is all playing out. As I said earlier with the info Morgan provided this is how I see it going down.

Is it a risk calling for a referendum? Certainly. We’re not even sure it’s even a binding one yet. A binding referendum would put it up to the residents. Obviously the city council feels it will come out positive or they would’nt be proposing it.

 

[Fairview]

You don’t truly understand how an RFP works.

The Coyotes came to Tempe and informally negotiated with city staff for nearly two years on this project. Once they got to the point where the formal negotiations needed to begin the city filed the RFP (as required by state law) to start that process.

Essentially it’s the city proclaiming “we have an offer to develop this property with these parameters”, and if there’s anyone else who would like to submit a proposal to meet (or even exceed) those standards you may do so now.”

There is nothing mystic about that.

If Meruelo wanted to put a tuxedo shop on the site the RFP would have specified that.

You seem to have a problem with how this is all playing out. As I said earlier with the info Morgan provided this is how I see it going down.

Is it a risk calling for a referendum? Certainly. We’re not even sure it’s even a binding one yet. A binding referendum would put it up to the residents. Obviously the city council feels it will come out positive or they would’nt be proposing it.

Well, you are wrong about me having a problem with how this is playing out. The actual fact is that it is going better than I expected. It likely wouldn’t occur to a fanboy but there is another reason that council might be considering the referendum. Maybe the truth is that after all of the coaxing from Meruelo, the council is still not completely on board. This would be the perfect way to end the plan. And as I’ve said before, 2 weeks ago, this was announced as a done deal by pro-Coyote sources.. now, maybe nothing further until May or so. The litigation angle is a crock, because pretty much everyone expects some type of challenge. Something happened since the big proclamation. Maybe some persuasion cheques bounced or something? That would not be a first for Meruelo

 

[Dirty Old Man]

If there is any fan base that should still be angry it should be the nordiques or whalers fan bases.

Well, Thrashers fans. But for some of you....they're southern plus it happened to them twice, so they deserved their fate, right?

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Atlanta residents not showing up to games helped. Also, just pointing out that Quebec lost a team twice.

Leave it to a Coyotes fan not to know that.

 

[TheLegend]

Well, you are wrong about me having a problem with how this is playing out. The actual fact is that it is going better than I expected. It likely wouldn’t occur to a fanboy but there is another reason that council might be considering the referendum. Maybe the truth is that after all of the coaxing from Meruelo, the council is still not completely on board. This would be the perfect way to end the plan. And as I’ve said before, 2 weeks ago, this was announced as a done deal by pro-Coyote sources.. now, maybe nothing further until May or so. The litigation angle is a crock, because pretty much everyone expects some type of challenge. Something happened since the big proclamation. Maybe some persuasion cheques bounced or something? That would not be a first for Meruelo

There are four yes votes from the 6/2 council meeting still there.

They only need four votes to approve. Pretty much a done deal from my vantage point if Meruelo has made additional concessions in the city’s favor.

If you want me to evaluate this relative to previous votes in Glendale… at this point it’s a lot more positive than when IceArizona got their 15 year lease (I wasn’t certain until late in the meeting when Sammy Chavira leaned yes), but way less than the time Winnipeg was “FiFtEen MiNuTeS AwAy FrOm OwNiNg ThE CoYoTeS!”. I knew that vote was a slam dunk days beforehand.