CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[Takuto Maruki]

Meaning the hockey "fans" in az won't drive 30 mins while the fans in Boston, Detroit, Toronto Montreal drive as far or in lotsa cases a whole lot farther it in -30C on ice and through blowing snow....ok .

There's a very big difference between these examples you presented and Arizona - all of the ones you mentioned have downtown arenas. Meaning it's very easy to get to them, especially via transit!

I wonder why Ottawa, who's in the very same boat as Arizona was in Glendale, also had the same problems as people don't want to drive the however long drive it is to Kanata three days out of the week to watch hockey, even when the team is good. Arena location matters a hell of a lot! It's a large reason why the Sens are looking at Lebreton Flats to develop the next Sens stadium.

The rest of your post is the same old bullshit that basically boils down to 'Canadians believing that Arizona is a blight upon hockey mankind' but I found the quoted especially hilarious because it is *so* disingenuous a talking point.

 

[TheLegend]

AZ fans... "This is a great hockey market!!!!!!!"
"If the team were in Tempe, they would sell out every night."

Meaning the hockey "fans" in az won't drive 30 mins while the fans in Boston, Detroit, Toronto Montreal drive as far or in lotsa cases a whole lot farther it in -30C on ice and through blowing snow....ok .

Empty seats in a 5000 seat arena opening night?
Visitor fan cheers louder than the 'yotes fans on opening night?? and every night since... already ticket prices are collapsing and attendance falling?

lol ok

this whole thing is a f***ing Joke right?

25 years of hockey in AZ...add it all up? over 3 Billion lost, worst avg attendance, lowest avg revenue, biggest cash losses, lowest TV ratings, weakest corporate support, lowest ticket sales, lowest ticket prices lowest merch sales,,....

How do you get the lowest TV ratings in the USA's 4th biggest broadcast market 25 years in a row?? Becauses it is not has not and will never be a hockey market.

it makes the league look pathetic.

MOVE THE TEAM. Houston KC QC Portland anywhere

kill this dog.

Thanks for the drive by.

I‘ll sum it all up for you with a simple answer so that even you understand.

THEY HAVE AN OWNER WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY NEEDED TO KEEP THEM IN ARIZONA AND THOSE OTHER CITIES DON’T.

 

[Skidooboy]

Thanks for the drive by.

I‘ll sum it all up for you with a simple answer so that even you understand.

THEY HAVE AN OWNER WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY NEEDED TO KEEP THEM IN ARIZONA AND THOSE OTHER CITIES DON’T.

Wrong.

That’s the point.

Qc has for a decade. There’s groups in the other cities that have interest.


Or as I said QC.
A real arena, a real market, a real tv deal, real corporate support. Owners fans and supporters who actually like and watch the game.

Real dressing rooms not some f***ing empty hall with some sheets hung up.

Meanwhile Phoenix is was and always has been the team that everyone else in the league pays for.

Now you have another owner with no connection to hockey no connection to Phoenix who’s only interested in a sports book and a casino. With no arena deal, a half assed plan, and a 5000 seat arena you can’t fill in opening night.

And Again.

People in your market won’t even drive 30 minutes to a f***ing game…


Just because you drink the idiot coolaid doesn’t mean we should.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Wrong.

That’s the point.

Qc has for a decade. There’s groups in the other cities that have interest.


Or as I said QC.
A real arena, a real market, a real tv deal, real corporate support. Owners fans and supporters who actually like and watch the game.

Real dressing rooms not some f***ing empty hall with some sheets hung up.

Meanwhile Phoenix is was and always has been the team that everyone else in the league pays for.

Now you have another owner with no connection to hockey no connection to Phoenix who’s only interested in a sports book and a casino. With no arena deal, a half assed plan, and a 5000 seat arena you can’t fill in opening night.

And Again.

People in your market won’t even drive 30 minutes to a f***ing game…


Just because you drink the idiot coolaid doesn’t mean we should.

SKIDOOBOY:

Do you own an NHL Franchise, the Quebec Remparts, or Centre Videotron..... and have you been vetted by pro hockey at any league level to own or operate a franchise at any level and do you have 700 M to spend immediately to buy a franchise which is the minimum franchise valuation to operate an NHL Franchise

 

[Skidooboy]

SKIDOOBOY:

Do you own an NHL Franchise, the Quebec Remparts, or Centre Videotron..... and have you been vetted by pro hockey at any league level to own or operate a franchise at any level and do you have 700 M to spend immediately to buy a franchise which is the minimum franchise valuation to operate an NHL Franchise

No.....what does any of that have to do with the history and validity of the 'yotes?


you talk about vetting....How many owners has he 'yotes had? at one pointy Ice edge were "vetted" by the NHL BOG. and they were broke con-men. the list goes on.

the money, arena market &tv deal in QC is waiting. we all know it. it's been advertised, expounded upon, for a loooong time.

Here's what i know

25 years the 'Yotes have been in the desert... what have we to show for it?

no market, at least 3 billion lost in AZ, no fans, can't sell out 5000 seats. out of town fans by far fill your tiny little barn while the majority of the locals go "who?".

nobody goes to games, nobody watches on tv, nobody buys the merch, fans can't be f***ed to drive 30 min of AZ freeway to go to a game.


this is a business thread

what is the BUSINESS CASE for the team to stay?

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Qc has for a decade.

Of which most of that interest was wrapped up in Quebec nationalist causes, and quickly evaporated when it was found that they didn't have enough money for the expansions fees that Bill Foley had set for Vegas, and as a result have been waiting in the winds for relocation.

There’s groups in the other cities that have interest.

The only one that has made any sort of noise is Houston - and anyone can tell you (Rockets fans certainly can) that Tillman Fertitta is a cheap skate who only wants an NHL franchise in his barn, on his financial terms, and will belittle the NHL and call Southern hockey a failure (when it clearly hasn't been) to make that a reality. No wonder the NHL doesn't consider Houston to be a realistic possibility.

Real dressing rooms not some f***ing empty hall with some sheets hung up.

I find this consternation about Mullett's lack of dressing rooms (for four games, mind you) and general histironics about playing in college barns hilarious when we are two years removed from 5 of Canada's sports teams playing in the US for those two years - and in the case of the Blue Jays, actively playing in both their AAA and single A ballparks, the latter of which was just as spartan and pathetic looking as Mullett is *for four games*.

Didn't see much complaining about playing in Dunedin, yet I see so much more about the Coyotes in Mullett. Wonder why.

Now you have another owner with no connection to hockey

95% of the owners in the NHL have no connection to hockey other then having ownership of a hockey team. Come on. Try harder.

no connection to Phoenix

Ditto for this too.

who’s only interested in a sports book and a casino.

Boy, you think that's bad, wait until you find out that Tom Dundon killed an entire spring football league to get at their sportsbook and gambling tech.

People in your market won’t even drive 30 minutes to a f***ing game…

You completely ignored the reasoning why people didn't go to Glendale, and brought up disingenous examples of other cities with downtown arenas supported by transit options. You completely ignored me bringing up the Sens having the same problems as the Coyotes in Glendale with people not willing to drive however long it takes to get to Kanata in rush hour traffic three times a week. You also completely ignored why these factors are a major reason why the Sens are pursuing arena development at Lebreton Flats.

Wonder why you don't apply the same brush to Ottawa you do the Coyotes.

what is the BUSINESS CASE for the team to stay?

That they have an owner who actually wants the team to stay, and thrive, and is willing to put the resources in place to make that happen. They also have an arena plan to make it a reality.

If and when the arena plan doesn't happen, the Coyotes will likely move. For now though? Those are the business cases for the Coyotes to stay.

Cases I alongside everyone else in this thread know you will ignore in order to continue looking like a dipshit in arguing this topic, like so many other people doing drive by posts in the many topics this board has had on this subject.

 

[Skidooboy]

There's a very big difference between these examples you presented and Arizona - all of the ones you mentioned have downtown arenas. Meaning it's very easy to get to them, especially via transit!

I wonder why Ottawa, who's in the very same boat as Arizona was in Glendale, also had the same problems as people don't want to drive the however long drive it is to Kanata three days out of the week to watch hockey, even when the team is good. Arena location matters a hell of a lot! It's a large reason why the Sens are looking at Lebreton Flats to develop the next Sens stadium.

The rest of your post is the same old bullshit that basically boils down to 'Canadians believing that Arizona is a blight upon hockey mankind' but I found the quoted especially hilarious because it is *so* disingenuous a talking point.

well you are wrong on every point.

Down town Arenas? ok lets look at Toronto...yep Down town....How does that help the fans who drive in from Hamilton? Burlington? Missisauga? Kitchener ?shit i was living in Peterborough and Leafs ticket holders were everywhere that's a 1:35 commute. in winter.

Montreal? same story Saint Hyacinthe, Saint Jerome. they drive in.

I drive 1 1/2 hours across frozen canadian highway to and 1 1/2 hours back from my teams games....

shit you think every Boston fan lives "down town" or getting from Newark or Queens or Brighton Beach to MSG for a rags game is shorter or easier?

how about the people who watch a Leafs game in TO then in Ottawa, then over to detroit? all in one week.

Ottawa is a different story.

It doesn't work because it's in the heart of the TO/Montreal market. In a world where you are either a Leafs fan or a Habs fan..from birth to grave, for multiple generations....no one cared about Ottawa. kinda like the how the XFL and others have failed over the years even though the US is THE "football market".

The only time the barn is full is when Leafs or Habs play. full of Away fans.. but full. because it's a real market. fans who drive a lot farther than the Ottawa to Kanata commute to see the teams they really love by the way.

so poor ottawa was never going to win. but they at least had an owner who lasted decades and died owning the team... now he's gone? time to move that team too.

now lets talk about winning....Toronto hasn't won since befor I was born. and I'm over 50! lots a piss poor losing seasons, so i guess they must have zero fans, crappy TV zero merch sales.....what? THAT MUCH MONEY? a that many sellouts?

see To is a hockey Market. AZ is not.

as for the "rest of my post" you get that the NHL is basically funded by Canadians right? our TV deal is bigger, our corporate sponsors pay more, our butts in seats subsidize your team.

3 billion lost. go ahead tell me that's a lie.

tell me how , even though in a make or break year, you can't even sell out a 5000 seat arena but "it's a hockey market". and this time it's different....

 

[Sparty]

There's a very big difference between these examples you presented and Arizona - all of the ones you mentioned have downtown arenas. Meaning it's very easy to get to them, especially via transit!

Public Transit in Detroit, lol

 

[Skidooboy]

Of which most of that interest was wrapped up in Quebec nationalist causes, and quickly evaporated when it was found that they didn't have enough money for the expansions fees that Bill Foley had set for Vegas, and as a result have been waiting in the winds for relocation.


The only one that has made any sort of noise is Houston - and anyone can tell you (Rockets fans certainly can) that Tillman Fertitta is a cheap skate who only wants an NHL franchise in his barn, on his financial terms, and will belittle the NHL and call Southern hockey a failure (when it clearly hasn't been) to make that a reality. No wonder the NHL doesn't consider Houston to be a realistic possibility.



I find this consternation about Mullett's lack of dressing rooms (for four games, mind you) and general histironics about playing in college barns hilarious when we are two years removed from 5 of Canada's sports teams playing in the US for those two years - and in the case of the Blue Jays, actively playing in both their AAA and single A ballparks, the latter of which was just as spartan and pathetic looking as Mullett is *for four games*.

Didn't see much complaining about playing in Dunedin, yet I see so much more about the Coyotes in Mullett. Wonder why.



95% of the owners in the NHL have no connection to hockey other then having ownership of a hockey team. Come on. Try harder.



Ditto for this too.



Boy, you think that's bad, wait until you find out that Tom Dundon killed an entire spring football league to get at their sportsbook and gambling tech.



You completely ignored the reasoning why people didn't go to Glendale, and brought up disingenous examples of other cities with downtown arenas supported by transit options. You completely ignored me bringing up the Sens having the same problems as the Coyotes in Glendale with people not willing to drive however long it takes to get to Kanata in rush hour traffic three times a week. You also completely ignored why these factors are a major reason why the Sens are pursuing arena development at Lebreton Flats.

Wonder why you don't apply the same brush to Ottawa you do the Coyotes.


That they have an owner who actually wants the team to stay, and thrive, and is willing to put the resources in place to make that happen. They also have an arena plan to make it a reality.

If and when the arena plan doesn't happen, the Coyotes will likely move. For now though? Those are the business cases for the Coyotes to stay.

Cases I alongside everyone else in this thread know you will ignore in order to continue looking like a dipshit in arguing this topic, like so many other people doing drive by posts in the many topics this board has had on this subject.

qc is more than happy to buy a team your answer is BS. founded on Bs . they were actively denied...much like Chipman was repeatedly in Winnipeg

KC/Houston...I just know they have interest. maybe I'm wrong. but Qc is there.

Southern hockey isn't a failure....AZ hockey is, probably Florida Hockey is...but some places do seem to have a market.

so you are comparing the difficulties with an global pandemic response, and a disruption of pro sports on an international level. because of multiple governmental legislation and international border issues ..to a shitty AZ ownership that wouldn't pay thier bills.....(you are kidding right?) were the Jays in Dunedin "for the foreseeable future" oh what? it was a temporary necessity with a verified end date and solution? and it's already done and were back at a propper MLB ballpark..... hmmm yep that's 100% the same..(eye roll) like that's a joke right? may as well compare your trip to france and your grandfather storming Omaha beach.

I've replied as to why Ottawa was a failure and should indeed be moved now that Melnyk is dead. i think it's likely because there probably wont be a money man to step up. also how it's a very different situation from AZ. look at my previous post.

what business case? the owner with no rink, a history of not paying his bills, and a city council that dosn't even seem to want to have the arena? the 25 years of failure? the infinitesimal hockey market? the 3 billion lost?

 

[TheLegend]

Wrong.

That’s the point.

Qc has for a decade. There’s groups in the other cities that have interest.


Or as I said QC.
A real arena, a real market, a real tv deal, real corporate support. Owners fans and supporters who actually like and watch the game.

Real dressing rooms not some f***ing empty hall with some sheets hung up.

Meanwhile Phoenix is was and always has been the team that everyone else in the league pays for.

Now you have another owner with no connection to hockey no connection to Phoenix who’s only interested in a sports book and a casino. With no arena deal, a half assed plan, and a 5000 seat arena you can’t fill in opening night.

And Again.

People in your market won’t even drive 30 minutes to a f***ing game…


Just because you drink the idiot coolaid doesn’t mean we should.

QC had an expansion bid and could not come up with the funds needed.... period.

This after THE PUBLIC PAID FOR AN ARENA because they were led to believe it would automatically get them one. QC fans not only drank the kool-aid they bought the manufacturing plant. So it's not on the fans of QC.... it's on the guy that got everyone's hopes up and then couldn't deliver.

So you may dispense with the "everyone else pays for" and "kool-aid" rhetoric.

It's a 5000 seat area..... in which 400 of those seats are blocked off for the NHL, media and TV setups. 4600 is the official sell out point and they've hit it all three games so far..

And owning a pro sports franchise is a business.... not some exclusive players only club.

Shed your tears somewhere else.

 

[Skidooboy]

QC had an expansion bid and could not come up with the funds needed.... period.

This after THE PUBLIC PAID FOR AN ARENA because they were led to believe it would automatically get them one. QC fans not only drank the kool-aid they bought the manufacturing plant. So it's not on the fans of QC.... it's on the guy that got everyone's hopes up and then couldn't deliver.

So you may dispense with the "everyone else pays for" and "kool-aid" rhetoric.

It's a 5000 seat area..... in which 400 of those seats are blocked off for the NHL, media and TV setups. 4600 is the official sell out point and they've hit it all three games so far..

And owning a pro sports franchise is a business.... not some exclusive players only club.

Shed your tears somewhere else.

Citation required. because I can't find a single news story to corroborate your story. not a single one. I can find stories saying the very opposite saying there indeed was a QC expansion bid...and that the NHL BOG deferred it. but i can't find any stories to verify your claims. nothing identifying the events your imagination has created.

empty seats...even your local news agrees

Mullett Arena a success for Arizona Coyotes on 1st night despite defeat

It was intimate, yet rowdy at Mullett Arena on Friday night as the Arizona Coyotes made their debut at the new multi-purpose arena.

arizonasports.com

see you have gone beyond ignoring facts. ignoring history,ignoring the obvious to outright lies. because you f***ING KNOW as well as we do that the team adn AZ market are a f***ing joke.

actually owning a sports franchise is very much a club. if it wasn't and money talked and Bs walked like REAL businesses...the team would be in Hamilton. it for sure wouldn't be floundering in the desert after the 3 billion in losses it's posted


[mod]

 

[Skidooboy]

QC had an expansion bid and could not come up with the funds needed.... period.

This after THE PUBLIC PAID FOR AN ARENA because they were led to believe it would automatically get them one. QC fans not only drank the kool-aid they bought the manufacturing plant. So it's not on the fans of QC.... it's on the guy that got everyone's hopes up and then couldn't deliver.

So you may dispense with the "everyone else pays for" and "kool-aid" rhetoric.

It's a 5000 seat area..... in which 400 of those seats are blocked off for the NHL, media and TV setups. 4600 is the official sell out point and they've hit it all three games so far..

And owning a pro sports franchise is a business.... not some exclusive players only club.

Shed your tears somewhere else.

also you really need to look at league revenue share and Corporate sponsorship and TV deals.....

a bit of quik research will show that indeed the Canadian deals are worth more cash than the American deals. so. between the rev sharing,tv deals, and sponsorship deals...Canada is very much covering your teams bills. I haven't even talked about when the league had to operate the team.....

so. again. you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[JimAnchower]

no market, at least 3 billion lost in AZ, no fans, can't sell out 5000 seats. out of town fans by far fill your tiny little barn while the majority of the locals go "who?".

Empty seats != tickets not sold

 

[Skidooboy]

Empty seats != tickets not sold

maybe not...but empty seats on home opener in a 5K seat arena isn't a good sign of a healthy market is it? Esp when 'yotes fans have been saying they would "fill barns every night IF only they were closer to Scottsdale" for the last 2 decades.

 

[JimAnchower]

maybe not...but empty seats on home opener in a 5K seat arena isn't a good sign of a healthy market is it? Esp when 'yotes fans have been saying they would "fill barns every night IF only they were closer to Scottsdale" for the last 2 decades.

It's a sign that some people purchased tickets and didn't go for whatever reason. This happens is every arena, every game.

 

[Skidooboy]

It's a sign that some people purchased tickets and didn't go for whatever reason. This happens is every arena, every game.

except multiple press out lets claimed there were tickets available right up to puck drop.

so was it a sell out? were those seats paid for but not attended? or were they just not sold and the team told a white lie for the press about "the sell out"?

There Is a Concerning Number of Empty Seats at Mullett Arena For Arizona's Home Opener

The Arizona Coyotes' home opener is tonight, and generally the vibe looks pretty good at Mullett Arena. At least, before

www.markerzone.com

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

The guy who whines about people ragging on the yotes non-stop is telling someone to shed tears elsewhere? Colour me surpised

 

[Dirty Old Man]

So where has this new whine-king spent most of his time here on HF?...*checks*...ah, okay Winnipeg.

'Splains it all. Plonk.

 

[Fyreman]

No.....what does any of that have to do with the history and validity of the 'yotes?


you talk about vetting....How many owners has he 'yotes had? at one pointy Ice edge were "vetted" by the NHL BOG. and they were broke con-men. the list goes on.

the money, arena market &tv deal in QC is waiting. we all know it. it's been advertised, expounded upon, for a loooong time.

Here's what i know

25 years the 'Yotes have been in the desert... what have we to show for it?

no market, at least 3 billion lost in AZ, no fans, can't sell out 5000 seats. out of town fans by far fill your tiny little barn while the majority of the locals go "who?".

nobody goes to games, nobody watches on tv, nobody buys the merch, fans can't be f***ed to drive 30 min of AZ freeway to go to a game.


this is a business thread

what is the BUSINESS CASE for the team to stay?

Fairly simple, you're right, it is a BUSINESS THREAD. How 'bout 31 other owners want hockey in the desert. Again, fairly simple...

 

[Lions67]

What “should” have happened is the the Yotes “should”have left years ago, got a proper ownership group rounded up and apply for an expansion team.
IF they had done this I bet they would have been much healthier and possibly even make a few bucks.
But..
They didn’t. They continue to try to pound that square peg into that round hole.

Holding a public referendum is NOT a good sign from city council in my eyes as it shows to me that they aren’t very certain on the deal.
I could be wrong, I don’t live there, but that is the optics I see here.

 

[mouser]

Mod reminder: this is not a QC discussion thread

 

[TheLegend]

The guy who whines about people ragging on the yotes non-stop is telling someone to shed tears elsewhere? Colour me surpised.

Color me surprised that the same group of posters come in with the same old drive by rants and can’t take someone who isn’t going to stroke their egos.

The lone fact remains the present owner of the Coyotes wants to remain in Arizona and he’s not out to appease or coddle the whims of said group of posters.

Wether he succeeds at it or not is yet to be determined.

*click*

 

[BKIslandersFan]

1& 2 have been discussed on these boards when it has been relevant to the discussion. Being a non profit doesnt prevent an organization from having access to the banking system. The NHL has access to funds, but the purpose of the RLOC is not for the NHL itself rather for the teams.

If you agree with 3 than you are disagreeing with the your previous post that i had replied to. You said the NHL is paying for it, i said the teams have to pay for what they use, you agreed....so yes it doesnt make much sense....

Yes, the BOG would have to agree to take out a $1B RLOC against the leagues TV contracts. The BOG is the legal body of the NHL anything legally binding has to go through the

 

[TheLegend]

It's a sign that some people purchased tickets and didn't go for whatever reason. This happens is every arena, every game.

There was a post out on Twitter from a guy who had a fan from Winnipeg sitting by himself tell him his four friends who he had tickets for bailed out on him an hour prior to puck drop.

It happens.

 

[mouser]

Holding a public referendum is NOT a good sign from city council in my eyes as it shows to me that they aren’t very certain on the deal.
I could be wrong, I don’t live there, but that is the optics I see here.

All reports are the majority of the Tempe city council members, including the mayor, are in favor of the deal and could easily pass it if they chose to do so. Opinion polls of Tempe residents are also favorable for the arena project.

Looking forward to the next city council meeting and how everything is presented. If there is a referendum attached I’m guessing it means the Tempe city council will be approving the arena project, subject to referendum. With the city council, chamber of commerce and many other entities encouraging approving votes in the referendum.

There could be some tactical elements for the City of Tempe here as well.
- Preemptively calling for a referendum avoids a later referendum that might stall the project longer.
- There may be beneficial leverage for Tempe to demonstrate their citizens support the arena project in any future fight with Phoenix, Sky Harbor, and the IGA.