CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[Takuto Maruki]

So where has this new whine-king spent most of his time here on HF?...*checks*...ah, okay Winnipeg.

'Splains it all. Plonk.

That's honestly what makes me laugh at learning that fact - I'd understand the resentment towards Phoenix if this was 2009 and there was still no clear way for Winnipeg to get the Jets back. But in the year of our lord 2022? Not only did the Jets return, but they've been around for ten years! Long enough for the new car smell to wear off and have Winnipeg return to the bottom of the Canadian team heap in terms of fan interest and revenue. Not only that, but you effectively have the Jets 1.0 logos back, the memory of the old team is alive and well and Jets 2.0 are using it in marketing (though they seem to be using more the WHA Jets then anything else) and about the only thing you *don't* have is the history, which I'm sure if you asked the Coyotes nicely, alongside the NHL, you'd probably get it back.

Still holding onto a grudge from 1996 when it effectively ended in 2011 is just ridiculous to me. You got everything you wanted and then some. What more do you want other then pure, unadulterated spite towards a fanbase you do not know other then as a boogeyman, and a team that is at the moment trying its hardest to plant a flag in the area instead of trying to tread water?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Still holding onto a grudge from 1996 when it effectively ended in 2011 is just ridiculous to me. You got everything you wanted and then some.

Even crazier, all they'd need to do is talk to their brethren who actually come down here once or twice a year (some just last week in fact) and have a great time.

But that's travelers for ya. Gotta have an open mind to enjoy it.

 

[Skidooboy]

The guy who whines about people ragging on the yotes non-stop is telling someone to shed tears elsewhere? Colour me

Color me surprised that the same group of posters come in with the same old drive by rants and can’t take someone who isn’t going to stroke their egos.

The lone fact remains the present owner of the Coyotes wants to remain in Arizona and he’s not out to appease or coddle the whims of said group of posters.

Wether he succeeds at it or not is yet to be determined.

*click*

what’s funny is after 3 bullion lost you keep promising “the fans will come THIS TIME”

yep that is a fact.. a billionaire wants a sports book so the taxpayers of Tempe can pay just like they did in Glendale.

however.it's not the lone fact.

the FACTS are.... the market has lost billions, the fans have repeatedly refused to show up and you keep making the "same old" excuses and assuring everyone "It's the commute(like that means anything) and sit there defending spending hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on a welfare hockey team so a billionaire can own a casino.

and you still can't fill a minor league barn.

Can't wait till it's a tuesday night in Feb against the Panthers or Carolina and there 600 people in the building.

That's honestly what makes me laugh at learning that fact - I'd understand the resentment towards Phoenix if this was 2009 and there was still no clear way for Winnipeg to get the Jets back. But in the year of our lord 2022? Not only did the Jets return, but they've been around for ten years! Long enough for the new car smell to wear off and have Winnipeg return to the bottom of the Canadian team heap in terms of fan interest and revenue. Not only that, but you effectively have the Jets 1.0 logos back, the memory of the old team is alive and well and Jets 2.0 are using it in marketing (though they seem to be using more the WHA Jets then anything else) and about the only thing you *don't* have is the history, which I'm sure if you asked the Coyotes nicely, alongside the NHL, you'd probably get it back.

Still holding onto a grudge from 1996 when it effectively ended in 2011 is just ridiculous to me. You got everything you wanted and then some. What more do you want other then pure, unadulterated spite towards a fanbase you do not know other then as a boogeyman, and a team that is at the moment trying its hardest to plant a flag in the area instead of trying to tread water?

no i'm looking at what the huge drain on resources the team is, how it hurts hockey, hurts the entire league's bottom line, and makes the entire league look foolish and second rate.

 

[TheLegend]

That's honestly what makes me laugh at learning that fact - I'd understand the resentment towards Phoenix if this was 2009 and there was still no clear way for Winnipeg to get the Jets back. But in the year of our lord 2022? Not only did the Jets return, but they've been around for ten years! Long enough for the new car smell to wear off and have Winnipeg return to the bottom of the Canadian team heap in terms of fan interest and revenue. Not only that, but you effectively have the Jets 1.0 logos back, the memory of the old team is alive and well and Jets 2.0 are using it in marketing (though they seem to be using more the WHA Jets then anything else) and about the only thing you *don't* have is the history, which I'm sure if you asked the Coyotes nicely, alongside the NHL, you'd probably get it back.

Still holding onto a grudge from 1996 when it effectively ended in 2011 is just ridiculous to me. You got everything you wanted and then some. What more do you want other then pure, unadulterated spite towards a fanbase you do not know other then as a boogeyman, and a team that is at the moment trying its hardest to plant a flag in the area instead of trying to tread water?

Also noting that from a business standpoint, Winnipeg recently stopped selling out their 15k seat arena, has its own share of no-shows, and has been receiving revenue sharing themselves. Not anywhere near as bad at the Coyotes, and that's not really a problem for for me. They've have a solid ownership group in place and will be fine.

But making up things like "billions in losses" is like throwing rocks from the glass lined patio.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Takuto Maruki]

no i'm looking at what the huge drain on resources the team is, how it hurts hockey, hurts the entire league's bottom line, and makes the entire league look foolish and second rate.

Mate, you've won. You got the Jets back, and have had them back for a decade. It's so obvious the way that you galavanted in here saying that Arizona deserved to be moved yesterday, completely ignoring points and facts to the contrary, and continue this quixotic crusade that it still isn't enough.

Which once again leads to the salient point of this all - the various owners who make up the true power of the NHL, and by extension Bettman, believe that Arizona is still worth something and have a chance to survive and thrive with the Tempe arena deal. If that fails, then it is likely that the Coyotes get moved. Then you get your wish, like so many others who have come into these threads over the years and can do your grave pissing and dancing about how Arizona was never destined to be a hockey market (even when there is a clear minor hockey framework in place, and a major Pac-12 school with a men's hockey program in a NCAA sport that does not, except for a few instances, go west of the Mississippi, that was birthed from the Coyotes being there)

Until then? You can gnash your teeth and scream about how it makes the league look second rate, but the owners disagree with you - for now.

 

[LPHabsFan]

But making up things like "billions in losses" is like throwing rocks from the glass lined patio.

This is a very fair point. This is the BOH forum and not the Main one. As much as possible, we need to keep things as accurate and logical as can be.

A more correct statement would have been "hundreds of millions".

 

[oldunclehue]

Also noting that from a business standpoint, Winnipeg recently stopped selling out their 15k seat arena, has its own share of no-shows, and has been receiving revenue sharing themselves. Not anywhere near as bad at the Coyotes, and that's not really a problem for for me. They've have a solid ownership group in place and will be fine.

But making up things like "billions in losses" is like throwing rocks from the glass lined patio.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As a born Winnipegger who loved the Jets 1.0 and grew up with that team I can see both sides to this thread and that some Winnipeggers would hope for failure with the move to Arizona. I for one have followed along to a degree on the Coyotes seemingly endless woes of ownership/rink/ fan issues and at one point, when we didn't have a team, it bothered me to see how much the NHL was fighting to keep that organization there.

We lost our true Winnipeg organization, the one that started here and truely felt like it was ours as a community...to a very non-traditional hockey market.

The NHL had a very clear motive in moving struggling Canadian teams south, and expanding to non-traditional markets....TV deals and potential of creating a whole new fanbase. It didn't work. The NHL provided no sense of fighting to keep the Jets. As fans I remember the news basically saying the Jets can't stay in Winnipeg without a new rink. So seeing the current set up in Arizona, approved by Bettman and the NHL, it still stings a bit.

But I for one really hope the owners, Tempe and people of Arizona can make this work. It will bring jobs, entertainment, passion and recruit players to the sport. I mean Auston Matthews....one of the best current players only started playing due to the Coyotes. So there are lots of positives.

As far as the Jets 2.0.....I couldn't care less anymore, ownership and the organization have really pushed fans away from their product. I don't want them to ever leave again, and the business model they have with all the development in the downtown area is huge. But if the recession/inflation keeps going the way it is, many folks will need to save that disposable income to pay for food, mortgages and other necessities.

I'm from the rural area and anyone I know with tickets is trying to offload them as a trip in to Winnipeg to watch a game for the family is well over $1000 by the time your done.

 

[aqib]

qc is more than happy to buy a team your answer is BS. founded on Bs . they were actively denied...much like Chipman was repeatedly in Winnipeg

KC/Houston...I just know they have interest. maybe I'm wrong. but Qc is there.

Southern hockey isn't a failure....AZ hockey is, probably Florida Hockey is...but some places do seem to have a market.

so you are comparing the difficulties with an global pandemic response, and a disruption of pro sports on an international level. because of multiple governmental legislation and international border issues ..to a shitty AZ ownership that wouldn't pay thier bills.....(you are kidding right?) were the Jays in Dunedin "for the foreseeable future" oh what? it was a temporary necessity with a verified end date and solution? and it's already done and were back at a propper MLB ballpark..... hmmm yep that's 100% the same..(eye roll) like that's a joke right? may as well compare your trip to france and your grandfather storming Omaha beach.

I've replied as to why Ottawa was a failure and should indeed be moved now that Melnyk is dead. i think it's likely because there probably wont be a money man to step up. also how it's a very different situation from AZ. look at my previous post.

what business case? the owner with no rink, a history of not paying his bills, and a city council that dosn't even seem to want to have the arena? the 25 years of failure? the infinitesimal hockey market? the 3 billion lost?

What? There will be bids to keep them in Ottawa within hours of it being officially put up for sale.

 

[TheLegend]

What? There will be bids to keep them in Ottawa within hours of it being officially put up for sale.

Some even include an arena with public assistance. Which is okay. Sens need to stay there.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Some even include an arena with public assistance. Which is okay. Sens need to stay there.

THE QUESTION isn't so much the next owner of the Senators or whether LaBreton Flats gets an arena.... what is the long-term future of the Canadian Tire Centre once the other arena is up and running much like Diamond Desert Arena in Glendale after the Coyotes are not the primary tenant draw now....

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

Is the arena vote in Tempe a slam dunk ? Or could this get refused and the team will have to move ?

 

[Takuto Maruki]

As far as the Jets 2.0.....I couldn't care less anymore, ownership and the organization have really pushed fans away from their product. I don't want them to ever leave again, and the business model they have with all the development in the downtown area is huge. But if the recession/inflation keeps going the way it is, many folks will need to save that disposable income to pay for food, mortgages and other necessities.

There's also the irony in that after years of not having high level 'professional' hockey aside from the Moose, Winnipeg now has three such franchises - two playing out of the same arena. Not only do you have inflation to deal with, but you also have two relatively cheaper options draining out potential ticket purchasing interest from the NHL club especially now that it seems like the Jets have regressed from a WCF run a few years prior.

That obviously plays a not insignificant part in that too.

 

[Llama19]

Is the arena vote in Tempe a slam dunk ? Or could this get refused and the team will have to move ?

The Magic Eight Ball says...ask again later...after Tempe's meeting on Nov 29...

 

[Stumbledore]

95% of the owners in the NHL have no connection to hockey other then having ownership of a hockey team. Come on. Try harder

Bullshit. The majority of NHL owners have a solid connection to hockey, many of them having played the game as boys.

Instead of sneering at people to "Try harder", perhaps you could try some facts instead of making up bullshit.

 

[Llama19]

In case people had forgotten about this poll...

Taxpayers Icy at Thought of Paying for a New Arizona Coyotes Arena

"Voters were unhappy about the use of taxpayer money being used for a new Coyotes facility, with only 39% of voters saying they would support the use of taxpayer funds.

There was even less interest among voters when asked if they would support the use of taxpayer money or tax breaks to provide additional funding to keep the Coyotes profitable, with 59.5% of voters being opposed. Opposition was consistent across party lines with Republicans at 61.5%, Democrats at 58.7%, and Independents at 58.5%."

Source: dataorbital.com/taxpayers-icy-at-thought-of-paying-for-a-new-arizona-coyotes-arena/

We will see how this may...or may not change...after the upcoming November meetings...

 

[TheLegend]

Bullshit. The majority of NHL owners have a solid connection to hockey, many of them having played the game as boys.

Instead of sneering at people to "Try harder", perhaps you could try some facts instead of making up bullshit.

Be an interesting thing if someone actually looked up all the ownership groups and counted who’s connected and who’s not instead of guesstimating.

Otherwise before we know it the Coyotes will be accused of having lost more money than even Dr. Evil could imagine.

 

[objectiveposter]

The animosity that Jets fans have towards the coyotes in Arizona has more to do with Gary Bettman than it does the actual market. What pisses off a lot of Jets fans is the belief that Bettman didnt care if the Jets and Nordiques moved to the States...not only did he basically do nothing to help the teams he secretly wanted the teams to move. Now compare that with the Coyotes where Bettman has been bending over backwards trying every financial scheme imaginable to keep the coyotes in the dessert including financial assistance and credit lines...something that was never offered to the original Jets. Personally, as a Jets fan I forgave Bettman when in 2011 he allowed the Thrashers to move back to Winnipeg. If there is any fan base that should still be angry it should be the nordiques or whalers fan bases. Winnipeg and Minnesota got their teams back and need to move on.

 

[Stumbledore]

Be an interesting thing if someone actually looked up all the ownership groups and counted who’s connected and who’s not instead of guesstimating.

Otherwise before we know it the Coyotes will be accused of having lost more money than even Dr. Evil could imagine.

Or you could just take Mark Chipman's word when he said, in an interview with CTV in 2019, that 19 members of the BofG played hockey and "could field a pretty decent squad, for old guys".

Then again, given politics in the States, maybe Chipman was just lying and waiting to attack Nancy Pelosi.

Maybe we need another poll?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The animosity that Jets fans have towards the coyotes in Arizona has more to do with Gary Bettman than it does the actual market. What pisses off a lot of Jets fans is the belief that Bettman didnt care if the Jets and Nordiques moved to the States...not only did he basically do nothing to help the teams he secretly wanted the teams to move. Now compare that with the Coyotes where Bettman has been bending over backwards trying every financial scheme imaginable to keep the coyotes in the dessert including financial assistance and credit lines...something that was never offered to the original Jets. Personally, as a Jets fan I forgave Bettman when in 2011 he allowed the Thrashers to move back to Winnipeg. If there is any fan base that should still be angry it should be the nordiques or whalers fan bases. Winnipeg and Minnesota got their teams back and need to move on.

if QC had done what they were supposed to do.... the Colisee wouldn't have stood for 60 years+ it has NOTHING to do with Hartford fans.... that's on the CT Development Authority ignoring Karmanos then about keeping hockey in Hartford, which did happen despite the interference from Howard Baldwin over an MSG OWNED Franchise being rebranded the Connecticut Whale for a year and a half and mid-season to boot.

 

[Fairview]

But i read numerous times from the mods darling that 60% of Tempe residents were in favor how can this be

It would seem that the Coyote faithful are using the same pollsters that they used when they make the claim that the vast majority of hockey fans live in the east valley. It’s all about narrative and just like the claim about the location of hockey fans in their market, we have to take them at their word It seems to have originated from Coyote Morgan..teams mouthpiece.

 

[TheLegend]

Or you could just take Mark Chipman's word when he said, in an interview with CTV in 2019, that 19 members of the BofG played hockey and "could field a pretty decent squad, for old guys".

Then again, given politics in the States, maybe Chipman was just lying and waiting to attack Nancy Pelosi.

Maybe we need another poll?

Fair enough….

So that leaves 13 ownerships without any ties. I would imagine that number was smaller a few years ago but it’s changing. Not that it’s a good or bad thing.

 

[TheLegend]

It would seem that the Coyote faithful are using the same pollsters that they used when they make the claim that the vast majority of hockey fans live in the east valley. It’s all about narrative and just like the claim about the location of hockey fans in their market, we have to take them at their word It seems to have originated from Coyote Morgan..teams mouthpiece.

They do mostly live in the east.

In 1996 the west valley was just beginning to develop out. The Loop 101 that runs by Westgate wasn’t completed until just before I moved here in late 2001. Greater population of PHX metro was east of the I-17. So was most of the money.

Now you can try slagging the guy who wrote the article all you want but that’s the info he got from his sources at both the Coyotes and the city of Tempe. Now if you were expecting him to make up his own numbers to appease your narrative you’re out of luck.

 

[TheLegend]

In case people had forgotten about this poll...

Taxpayers Icy at Thought of Paying for a New Arizona Coyotes Arena

"Voters were unhappy about the use of taxpayer money being used for a new Coyotes facility, with only 39% of voters saying they would support the use of taxpayer funds.

There was even less interest among voters when asked if they would support the use of taxpayer money or tax breaks to provide additional funding to keep the Coyotes profitable, with 59.5% of voters being opposed. Opposition was consistent across party lines with Republicans at 61.5%, Democrats at 58.7%, and Independents at 58.5%."

Source: dataorbital.com/taxpayers-icy-at-thought-of-paying-for-a-new-arizona-coyotes-arena/

We will see how this may...or may not change...after the upcoming November meetings...

Well considering the article you posted goes back over a year ago I would surmise a lot has changed, since more details and information about the project has come out since this poll was first announced.

 

[Stumbledore]

Fair enough….

So that leaves 13 ownerships without any ties. I would imagine that number was smaller a few years ago but it’s changing. Not that it’s a good or bad thing.

No, it does NOT leave 13 owners without ties to hockey. Geez, for someone who whines about other people twisting facts....

I referenced Chipman's quote about how many of the old fat governors played hockey before buying into the NHL. That does NOT mean the other owners have no connection with the NHL.

Quit making shit up, Legend. You used to be much more reliable than this.

 

[Fairview]

They do mostly live in the east.

In 1996 the west valley was just beginning to develop out. The Loop 101 that runs by Westgate wasn’t completed until just before I moved here in late 2001. Greater population of PHX metro was east of the I-17. So was most of the money.

Now you can try slagging the guy who wrote the article all you want but that’s the info he got from his sources at both the Coyotes and the city of Tempe. Now if you were expecting him to make up his own numbers to appease your narrative you’re out of luck.

No he just writes what the Coyotes tell him to , to suit their narrative. He’s never written anything even remotely negative about the team. I can understand that because that’s how NHL teams operate everywhere. You want access to the team, you be nice. Most of us remember his most slanted story ever. Right after Glendale cancelled the golden subsidy for cause, he suggested that Glendale should reverse their decision and throw themselves at Tonys feet and ask for mercy. Real good sources on that one too. If there was a poll suggesting the Tempe citizens actually support this as is, then the team would be crazy not to make the results and the pollsters public. After all, everyone tends to support the winning side. Instead they have their mouthpiece make a vague unsubstantiated claim and leave it at that.
Do you have anything to further support the teams claim other than the vague references made? Exactly whom from the city did he talk with?