CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[TheLegend]

Coyotes are currently in their third building, w less than 5k seats, actually thrown out of their home arena (can be spun however but they got tossed out), losing money for 15 straight years, how many owners, how many scandals, no arena deal set, now in the middle of municipalities and potential lawsuits in the billions, still no resolution in site, and starring this 5k building in the face for 3 total seasons or more if this works out is insane and not really comparable to any of the ones you're digging on. Mets, really? Oakland is on its way to announcing a move to Vegas as soon as it's lease is over and they can get out of the dump stadium, not really comparable. Islanders for all the junk didn't even touch this and the only thing that would approach it was John Spano but that was on the league for not vetting properly. Yotes are in a league of their own at this point and it's been this way time after time with the franchise since they moved there. Feel awful for their fans but this is now 2 decades into a complete circus that is NOT an indictment on the fans or their fan support. You literally have municipalities fighting each other to not allow the team to build a building. It is nuts.

They were “tossed out” because they refused to sign a 15-20 year lease. Glendale’s city manager is on the record confirming that. Coyotes were willing to sign a 3-year lease with a 2-year option to stay in Glendale until they could get a new arena built on their own.

You can call it “spin” all you like….. but context is everything and if the Coyotes were such a bad tenant as Glendale painted them then you’ll have to postulate why a city would lock down a “dead beat” tenant for another 20 years.

The truth of the matter is…. Glendale knew Meruelo was looking to build his own arena (there’s receipts for that too) and the last thing the city needs is a privately built arena competing with their own arena they still owe $100+ million on.

Phoenix is looking at this in the same manner…. They have their own arena they built and just dropped $200 million in on renovations and an airport that’s land locked and wants to expand operations on. But their infighting with Tempe has been going on for over 30 years (before the Coyotes even arrived) and this is just another episode.

Before that it was the Cardinals looking to build their stadium in Tempe (they were playing at ASU themselves) and the airport used the same arguments about noise and safety and went as far as producing a video of a plane crashing into the stadium as a scare tactic. Which was nonsense and everyone knew it but they stalled the project enough to kill it. It took two more years before they eventually put the stadium in Glendale.

So yeah….. it’s nuts. But it isn’t unique either.

 

[Llama19]

Former pilot says the location of Tempe’s proposed entertainment district raises safety concerns

To quote:

"[W. David] Doiron said the proposed Tempe Entertainment District would put a group of buildings on the centerline of Arizona’s busiest runway. Pilots taking off on the airport’s east side would have to quickly gain altitude. And when a jet is low to the ground, it’s hard to turn it away from something.

“I can see the conditions and I see the risk. I’m afraid the wheeler-dealers and the famous people that signed onto this thing, they don’t see the risk,” said Doiron.

Doiron also said that Tempe did not seek input from its own aviation panel.

Source: kjzz.org/content/1843506/former-pilot-says-location-tempes-proposed-entertainment-district-raises-safety

Aviation Commission

"The Tempe Aviation Commission advises the Mayor and City Council and assists City departments regarding matters related to the impact of aircraft and airport operations on Tempe residents; the monitoring, implementation, and enforcement of agreements made between the City of Phoenix and the City of Tempe concerning the operations of Sky Harbor International Airport; studies conducted of local airports and their potential impact on Tempe residents; and, land use measures that could mitigate the impact of aircraft and airport operations."

Source: www.tempe.gov/government/city-clerk-s-office/boards-and-commissions/active-boards-commissions-committees-and-other-public-bodies/aviation-commission

 

[PredsHead]

So Meruelo is paying for parody Twitter accounts and websites to fight a group of small businesses and retirees?

https://twitter.com/Tempe_1st
Tempe Truth First

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

From my understanding of what Seravelli said this morning on local radio, he believed the Coyotes could be successful in Arizona if they got a good owner. He compared them to how Tampa was viewed in their market until they got a good owner. Seravelli has been critical of our owner out here too (Vancouver).

I don't get this view - he probably doesn't realize who current ownership actually is, and how much better they are then past owners, lol.

 

[TheLegend]

So Meruelo is paying for parody Twitter accounts and websites to fight a group of small businesses and retirees?

https://twitter.com/Tempe_1st
Tempe Truth First

Tempe Truth First is definitely their account. Try looking at their site. It’s basically their “myth busting” platform.

The other one is new but there’s a bit of irony in this.

Tempe1st was a PAC run by one of the former mayors who is supporting Tempe Wins and Meruelo.

Democracy for Tempe PAC is the group behind Tempe1st (they paid for the website) and the last time I checked they aren’t even a legal PAC according to the AZ Secretary of State (their status is terminated). But they are attempting to fundraise anyway and that’s a bit more serious.

BTW… parody Twitter accounts don’t cost you anything.

 

[TheLegend]

I don't get this view - he probably doesn't realize who current ownership actually is, and how much better they are then past owners, lol.

Which is why I’ll reiterate that a lot of these reporters from way out of the market don’t take the time to dig into everything. They read reports and come up with their own conclusions.

 

[PredsHead]

Tempe Truth First is definitely their account. Try looking at their site. It’s basically their “myth busting” platform.

The other one is new but there’s a bit of irony in this.

Tempe1st was a PAC run by one of the former mayors who is supporting Tempe Wins and Meruelo.

Democracy for Tempe PAC is the group behind Tempe1st (they paid for the website) and the last time I checked they aren’t even a legal PAC according to the AZ Secretary of State (their status is terminated). But they are attempting to fundraise anyway and that’s a bit more serious.

BTW… parody Twitter accounts don’t cost you anything.

Unless Meruelo is posting himself, he's paying for someone to create the account and tweet from it. You should tell Meruelo's group about the PAC business maybe they will sue the lady who owns the bookstore for $5 Billion. Its about the only way they could look even smaller and pettier than they already do.

 

[GindyDraws]

Insiders don't see countersunk impacting vote.

Whoa, whoa, whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...

The Wolves want to be independent?

 

[LadyStanley]

Whoa, whoa, whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...

The Wolves want to be independent?

Yep. There's a separate thread on it

 

[TheLegend]

Unless Meruelo is posting himself, he's paying for someone to create the account and tweet from it. You should tell Meruelo's group about the PAC business maybe they will sue the lady who owns the bookstore for $5 Billion. Its about the only way they could look even smaller and pettier than they already do.

Well that’s your opinion from afar and you’re certainly entitled to it.

Just trying to explain there’s a lot more going on than what you get from the internet.

 

[TheLegend]

Former pilot says the location of Tempe’s proposed entertainment district raises safety concerns

To quote:

"[W. David] Doiron said the proposed Tempe Entertainment District would put a group of buildings on the centerline of Arizona’s busiest runway. Pilots taking off on the airport’s east side would have to quickly gain altitude. And when a jet is low to the ground, it’s hard to turn it away from something.

“I can see the conditions and I see the risk. I’m afraid the wheeler-dealers and the famous people that signed onto this thing, they don’t see the risk,” said Doiron.

Doiron also said that Tempe did not seek input from its own aviation panel.

Source: kjzz.org/content/1843506/former-pilot-says-location-tempes-proposed-entertainment-district-raises-safety

Aviation Commission

"The Tempe Aviation Commission advises the Mayor and City Council and assists City departments regarding matters related to the impact of aircraft and airport operations on Tempe residents; the monitoring, implementation, and enforcement of agreements made between the City of Phoenix and the City of Tempe concerning the operations of Sky Harbor International Airport; studies conducted of local airports and their potential impact on Tempe residents; and, land use measures that could mitigate the impact of aircraft and airport operations."

Source: www.tempe.gov/government/city-clerk-s-office/boards-and-commissions/active-boards-commissions-committees-and-other-public-bodies/aviation-commission

Ah yes…. Mister “what happens if a plane crashes.” He gave the same speech at the council meeting November 22nd.

Never mind the other three sports stadiums high-rise condos, office buildings that currently exist.

Come to think about it…. I live right under the main flight paths going in and out of Sky Harbor from the west. Seen many planes coming in over my house underneath the designated envelope (when the ceiling is low). I should be scared to death and start filing my own complaints.

If he were truly serious about it he should tell Phoenix they should shut Sky Harbor down and move it to a new location like what they thought about doing some 20-30 years ago.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Which is why I’ll reiterate that a lot of these reporters from way out of the market don’t take the time to dig into everything. They read reports and come up with their own conclusions.

I think this can be traced back to the fact so many of the national sports reporters don't have a grind it out reporting background.

They havent sat through council/school board meetings, nor have they covered local projects like this before.

 

[TheLegend]

I think this can be traced back to the fact so many of the national sports reporters don't have a grind it out reporting background.

They havent sat through council/school board meetings, nor have they covered local projects like this before.

Internet kinda changed that.

It’s now a race to who can get it out faster anymore.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Internet kinda changed that.

It’s now a race to who can get it out faster anymore.

And "lol yotes" plays well in Canada still.

As someone who has reported on council meetings at a local level, I'm not sure.

It's definitely a changed media environment for the worse, but stick your average sports columnist on a current city council beat for a year, and they'd be way better at covering this.

 

[PredsHead]

Well that’s your opinion from afar and you’re certainly entitled to it.

Just trying to explain there’s a lot more going on than what you get from the internet.

What is going on that we are just unable to see? The PAC thing? What exactly are you trying to say is going on with that? Someone hasn't filed correctly? What then? Web hosting and a couple thousand yard signs is maybe....$5000? Meruelo is spending like $250,000 so only 50 times as much, is that really the thing you want to highlight? Not only has Tempe Wins spent 50 times as much, but they basically get free TV and radio publicity for the project every game plus in theory 4600 captive audience members for home game. Yet they still have to create parody accounts?

 

[gstommylee]

What is going on that we are just unable to see? The PAC thing? What exactly are you trying to say is going on with that? Someone hasn't filed correctly? What then? Web hosting and a couple thousand yard signs is maybe....$5000? Meruelo is spending like $250,000 so only 50 times as much, is that really the thing you want to highlight? Not only has Tempe Wins spent 50 times as much, but they basically get free TV and radio publicity for the project every game plus in theory 4600 captive audience members for home game. Yet they still have to create parody accounts?

The issue between tempe and phx goes beyond this issue. THey been having issues with each other long before arizona even gotten a hockey team.

 

[BMN]

It's kind of impossible to determine what a "good look" is PR wise if I don't know a lot about the voterbase being catered to.

From the outside, I think the Coyotes/Merulo PR strategy makes them look pretty petty, which is *not* me saying "they have no grievance." One can certainly hold righteous grievances and express them in manner that comes across petty.

But......I don't live in Tempe so "how it reads" to me is completely irrelevant. Either.....

a-- the voter base in Tempe is educated on the history, empathize with Merulo/Coyotes' anger (or it plays on "us (Tempe) vs. them (Phoenix)" sentiments) and will be more motivated to approve the amendments accordingly,
b-- it comes off as whiny rich guy complaining and motivates people who would have either voted "Yes" or not at all to suddenly come out to reject it,
c-- it has little to no impact on the vote.

From the outside looking in, I'm guessing c but what do I know?...

 

[PredsHead]

It's kind of impossible to determine what a "good look" is PR wise if I don't know a lot about the voterbase being catered to.

From the outside, I think the Coyotes/Merulo PR strategy makes them look pretty petty, which is *not* me saying "they have no grievance." One can certainly hold righteous grievances and express them in manner that comes across petty.

But......I don't live in Tempe so "how it reads" to me is completely irrelevant. Either.....

a-- the voter base in Tempe is educated on the history, empathize with Merulo/Coyotes' anger (or it plays on "us (Tempe) vs. them (Phoenix)" sentiments) and will be more motivated to approve the amendments accordingly,
b-- it comes off as whiny rich guy complaining and motivates people who would have either voted "Yes" or not at all to suddenly come out to reject it,
c-- it has little to no impact on the vote.

From the outside looking in, I'm guessing c but what do I know?...

I don't disagree with your points, however the Coyotes have to worry about not just the vote itself but also attracting fans and businesses from across the entire market if they did win the vote. You've already left fans in Glendale with a very bad taste in their mouths, now your suing the biggest city in the market for more than its entire operating budget around 18 months later? If you owned a business and were thinking about getting a suite or a couple of premium seats for the Coyotes games next year, would the last couple of weeks have changed your mind? If you were thinking about going into some sort of partnership or advertisement deal with the Coyotes would you be rethinking that right now?

 

[mouser]

It's kind of impossible to determine what a "good look" is PR wise if I don't know a lot about the voterbase being catered to.

From the outside, I think the Coyotes/Merulo PR strategy makes them look pretty petty, which is *not* me saying "they have no grievance." One can certainly hold righteous grievances and express them in manner that comes across petty.

But......I don't live in Tempe so "how it reads" to me is completely irrelevant. Either.....

a-- the voter base in Tempe is educated on the history, empathize with Merulo/Coyotes' anger (or it plays on "us (Tempe) vs. them (Phoenix)" sentiments) and will be more motivated to approve the amendments accordingly,
b-- it comes off as whiny rich guy complaining and motivates people who would have either voted "Yes" or not at all to suddenly come out to reject it,
c-- it has little to no impact on the vote.

From the outside looking in, I'm guessing c but what do I know?...

As a local it’s most likely (c), or slightly (a).

The (a) would be less about the Coyotes countersuit and more about the Phoenix suit against Tempe to block the project.

 

[TheLegend]

As a local it’s most likely (c), or slightly (a).

The (a) would be less about the Coyotes countersuit and more about the Phoenix suit against Tempe to block the project.

I think the fact that the airport had the audacity to comment in the press that the Coyotes should be siding with them said volumes.

Meruelo spent over two years negotiating this proposal and made huge concessions to both Tempe and Phoenix and now Phoenix wants to hold his proposal as hostage because they want Tempe to give in to other demands that they want and apparently won’t clearly define.

And Tempe residents have to be getting fed up being the little guy trying to sunbathe on the beach while their bodybuilding neighbor to the west (Phoenix) keeps kicking sand in their face.

 

[BMN]

I don't disagree with your points, however the Coyotes have to worry about not just the vote itself but also attracting fans and businesses from across the entire market if they did win the vote. You've already left fans in Glendale with a very bad taste in their mouths, now your suing the biggest city in the market for more than its entire operating budget around 18 months later? If you owned a business and were thinking about getting a suite or a couple of premium seats for the Coyotes games next year, would the last couple of weeks have changed your mind? If you were thinking about going into some sort of partnership or advertisement deal with the Coyotes would you be rethinking that right now?

Fair points although again, we don't live there so who knows? You could have a whole swath of businesses that hate dealing with the city that will think "Oh boy, a sporting event I can attend to get away from these a__holes!" Or maybe your take is right and it becomes "ah, these guys are the same spiteful a__holes as the rest, I'm not interested!" We really don't know either way.

Were it me and I was taking the countersuit actions, I'd try to keep my press releases, etc., as truncated as possible. But that's me thinking of a generic audience, not the one in Tempe. What looks "strategic-less" to us could actually be quite savvy in this particular location.

 

[bleedblue94]

They were “tossed out” because they refused to sign a 15-20 year lease. Glendale’s city manager is on the record confirming that. Coyotes were willing to sign a 3-year lease with a 2-year option to stay in Glendale until they could get a new arena built on their own.

You can call it “spin” all you like….. but context is everything and if the Coyotes were such a bad tenant as Glendale painted them then you’ll have to postulate why a city would lock down a “dead beat” tenant for another 20 years.

The truth of the matter is…. Glendale knew Meruelo was looking to build his own arena (there’s receipts for that too) and the last thing the city needs is a privately built arena competing with their own arena they still owe $100+ million on.

Phoenix is looking at this in the same manner…. They have their own arena they built and just dropped $200 million in on renovations and an airport that’s land locked and wants to expand operations on. But their infighting with Tempe has been going on for over 30 years (before the Coyotes even arrived) and this is just another episode.

Before that it was the Cardinals looking to build their stadium in Tempe (they were playing at ASU themselves) and the airport used the same arguments about noise and safety and went as far as producing a video of a plane crashing into the stadium as a scare tactic. Which was nonsense and everyone knew it but they stalled the project enough to kill it. It took two more years before they eventually put the stadium in Glendale.

So yeah….. it’s nuts. But it isn’t unique either.

I understand the dynamics but this isn't just about the arena situation. I understand fans are defensive and the post wasn't attacking them or mocking them, it was more of a sympathy for this bc even just your post seeks to take the past 2 decades and just make it about the arenas and find comparables. Then someone else tries to make a post focusing on the ownership sagas and find comparables. It's just like the major historical messes found in a variety of sports all manifested into one org and it's just sad to see. Not mocking them, feel bad for the fans...

 

[KCC]

Not that I don't they will but what happens if the they vote no?

 

[TheLegend]

Not that I don't they will but what happens if the they vote no?

There's rumored to be a backup location near where the current site is.

BUT.... That's all we know.

 

[bleedblue94]

There's rumored to be a backup location near where the current site is.

BUT.... That's all we know.

A backup location in the near the current site, as in still in/near Tempe area?