CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[Ciao]

Interesting to watch from the outside.

I'm not at all knowledgeable about the details of the project, but in a general sense from the outside looking in it's hard to imagine the Coyotes' lawsuit helping them get this project done.

The general idea while a deal is cooking is to minimize the litigation and contain the issues. This does the opposite, and is usually done after the deal has blown up and all hope of closing is lost.

If they actually are getting closer to the finishing line, then that's not very easily seen.

 

[Llama19]

Will Phoenix's lawsuit affect the date of Tempe's Coyotes election?

To quote:

"Tempe voters will still decide the future of the city's multi-billion-dollar deal with the Arizona Coyotes in May ― on the original election date set by city officials last year ― despite Phoenix's recent lawsuit that aims to restrict Tempe's ability to greenlight the development.

Tempe staffers confirmed that the increasingly messy legal battle will have no impact on the election itself, however.

The Coyotes are just caught in the middle of that inter-city dispute, but their entire plan could collapse if the judge decides Phoenix's interpretation of the rules is correct.

The project relies on the thousands of proposed apartment units to work out financially, according to Coyotes President Xavier Gutierrez, and a legal victory for Phoenix would prevent Tempe from re-zoning the project site to allow for that type of housing.

That means a judge could end up killing the project, even if voters approve the deal in May, if the Coyotes' countersuit doesn't succeed in putting the entire legal spat to bed first. It would create one more barrier that must be crossed before the project's future can be secured."

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/06/tempe-coyotes-election-date-phoenix-lawsuit/70081051007/

 

[Fatass]

Will Phoenix's lawsuit affect the date of Tempe's Coyotes election?

To quote:

"Tempe voters will still decide the future of the city's multi-billion-dollar deal with the Arizona Coyotes in May ― on the original election date set by city officials last year ― despite Phoenix's recent lawsuit that aims to restrict Tempe's ability to greenlight the development.

Tempe staffers confirmed that the increasingly messy legal battle will have no impact on the election itself, however.

The Coyotes are just caught in the middle of that inter-city dispute, but their entire plan could collapse if the judge decides Phoenix's interpretation of the rules is correct.

The project relies on the thousands of proposed apartment units to work out financially, according to Coyotes President Xavier Gutierrez, and a legal victory for Phoenix would prevent Tempe from re-zoning the project site to allow for that type of housing.

That means a judge could end up killing the project, even if voters approve the deal in May, if the Coyotes' countersuit doesn't succeed in putting the entire legal spat to bed first. It would create one more barrier that must be crossed before the project's future can be secured."

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/06/tempe-coyotes-election-date-phoenix-lawsuit/70081051007/

Frank Seravelli was just on the radio out here and he had some not so nice things to say about the Coyote ownership and their statement of charges in this 2 billion dollar lawsuit. He implied if there was a better owner the Coyotes could thrive there. Hopefully this gets fixed and the club can be built into a winner.

 

[Hammahtime]

Frank Seravelli was just on the radio out here and he had some not so nice things to say about the Coyote ownership and their statement of charges in this 2 billion dollar lawsuit. He implied if there was a better owner the Coyotes could thrive there. Hopefully this gets fixed and the club can be built into a winner.

What station was he on? I’d love to give it a listen

 

[Tawnos]

It's worth mentioning that the Coyotes and Tempe anticipated that there would be legal challenges here. The length of the lease at ASU reflects that. The existence of the referendum at all also reflects that, since it was mainly an attempt to preempt legal challenges they foresaw coming.

 

[MMC]

Such a f***ing joke. We all know Frank would never say this about a Canadian team’s response to any type of mess they were in

 

[Stumbledore]

Such a f***ing joke. We all know Frank would never say this about a Canadian team’s response to any type of mess they were in

Actually Frank Seravalli has a reputation for making all sorts of stupid, f***ing statements about every single one of the teams in Canada.

(Full disclosure: from far enough away, this actually does read a lot like the outrageous hyperbole and lies you'll find on Truth Social.)

EDIT: Which is how Frank keeps his following. There's always some minor thing that's accurate about what he says, even on the periphery.

 

[bleedblue94]

This is not a knock on the Coyote fans, but this entire org and the aura around it has been a complete shitshow for two decades. It is obvious why the league is hellbent on making this work based on the market size and potential influence, but what other franchise in recent sports history has had this kind of circus constantly around it for such a staggering amount of time...

 

[Fatass]

What station was he on? I’d love to give it a listen

650 radio (am) Vancouver. He was on the first hour of the morning show with Halford and Brough.

 

[Fatass]

Such a f***ing joke. We all know Frank would never say this about a Canadian team’s response to any type of mess they were in

From my understanding of what Seravelli said this morning on local radio, he believed the Coyotes could be successful in Arizona if they got a good owner. He compared them to how Tampa was viewed in their market until they got a good owner. Seravelli has been critical of our owner out here too (Vancouver).

 

[Yukon Joe]

From my understanding of what Seravelli said this morning on local radio, he believed the Coyotes could be successful in Arizona if they got a good owner. He compared them to how Tampa was viewed in their market until they got a good owner. Seravelli has been critical of our owner out here too (Vancouver).

Alex Meruelo is the most promising owner the Coyotes have had in a at least a decade - and they've gone through a lot of owners. The idea that some new ownership is going to show up and solve the team's problems is ludicrous.

The team is pretty much locked-in at this point. Mullett Arena though fine as a stop-gap is clearly not a long, or even medium, term solution. The team needs to make the TED work and construction needs to start soonish. If they have to go back to the drawing board with a new owner and a new arena plan I can't see how the franchise survives.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Such a f***ing joke. We all know Frank would never say this about a Canadian team’s response to any type of mess they were in

It is on odd headline.

 

[mouser]

Alex Meruelo is the most promising owner the Coyotes have had in a at least a decade - and they've gone through a lot of owners. The idea that some new ownership is going to show up and solve the team's problems is ludicrous.

The team is pretty much locked-in at this point. Mullett Arena though fine as a stop-gap is clearly not a long, or even medium, term solution. The team needs to make the TED work and construction needs to start soonish. If they have to go back to the drawing board with a new owner and a new arena plan I can't see how the franchise survives.

Supposedly Meruelo has a backup site a few miles away on tribal land. In my opinion it wouldn't be as ideal as the Tempe lake site, but the location would be more than adequate for the type of mixed development project the team has envisioned with good access to roads and freeways. If the project were built on this second site it would be outside Tempe city limits so they wouldn't receive nearly as much tax revenue--one of the factors motivating Tempe to have the arena district built in the city.

 

[KevFu]

This is not a knock on the Coyote fans, but this entire org and the aura around it has been a complete shitshow for two decades. It is obvious why the league is hellbent on making this work based on the market size and potential influence, but what other franchise in recent sports history has had this kind of circus constantly around it for such a staggering amount of time...

well...

The New York Islanders
- horrible lease that was blatantly bad like 5 years after they signed it and you had 25 years of trying to get out of it, trying to build a new arena. Trying to condemn the Coliseum as "unsafe" to get out of it. You had John Spano fraudulently buying the team; you had a new owner with a Hockey For Dummies book buying the team to try and get the Lighthouse Project built, moving to Barclays Center which was NOT built for hockey and had like 9000 good hockey seats, and then going back to NVMC once they got a deal done for UBS.

But things are GREAT now that UBS is open. It's like they're a real franchise for the first time since 1987. This is our hope for the Coyotes in Tempe.

New York Mets
Less about facilities, because Shea was old and a dump, but kinda beloved by the die-hards; but the first new stadium plans were approved by the city and then cancelled because of 9/11. Then there was Olympic bid possibilities, then finally they got the go-ahead for Citi Field. Which the owners kind of screwed up, negating the strengths of their franchise player and alienating fans. You had DECADES of the Wilpon's idiocy Not giving the GM a budget number but making decisions on which players "win the back page" from the Yankees. You had just clownshoes management, firing managers one game into a West Coast road trip (which made sense internally, but not externally, I can explain that if nec). Countless PR nightmares. The owners were investing the TEAM'S MONEY with Bernie Madoff, but when that all came crumbling down, MLB didn't force the owners to sell and doomed the fanbase into small market decisions. They kept trading all their prospects to go for it one last time before finally selling to a legit owner. Which now, everyone's talking about how much money he's spent, but he literally has to because there's simply NO ONE in the farm to take the place of free agents. No outfielders, no pitchers. Just a catcher, a third baseman and a DH.

Oakland Athletics
From the time they broke ground on Oakland Coliseum... 37 newer MLB stadiums have opened. MLB screwed up during the merger of AL and NL into MLB, accidentally listing San Jose as exclusive Giants territory, when the agreement the A's signed was just an acknowledgement that the Giants could move there without permission/vote of the American League (because the deadline for "California government rebuilding post earthquake" money was looming and MLB's commissioner just died). Sewage flooding the lockerrooms and dugouts, trading every player making more than a couple million, will they move to Fremont? Renovating the Coliseum with Mount Davis for the Raiders, now will they move to Vegas and they're drawing 3000 a game.

 

[TheLegend]

Frank Seravelli was just on the radio out here and he had some not so nice things to say about the Coyote ownership and their statement of charges in this 2 billion dollar lawsuit. He implied if there was a better owner the Coyotes could thrive there. Hopefully this gets fixed and the club can be built into a winner.

Media folks outside the market do very little research into all the nuances surrounding this saga.

 

[oldunclehue]

I for one want the Coyotes to stay in the area and get it figured out. I've been there once and I loved the area and watched some hockey, I enjoyed it.

I can see the frustration some people have with how many hoops the NHL has gone through to make sure the team stays there. But times are different now then when other teams moved from small Canadian markets.

I'm pulling for the Tempe thing to work out...but multiple lawsuits before even a shovel has touched the ground for anything doesn't seem like a positive start.

 

[Llama19]

650 radio (am) Vancouver. He was on the first hour of the morning show with Halford and Brough.

Here is the podcast of the radio show.

Comments start around the 36:45 time mark: www.sportsnet.ca/650/halford-brough-morning/the-canucks-need-to-start-holding-their-players-accountable/

 

[TheLegend]

Lawsuits will not stop the special election…

Tempe staffers confirmed that the increasingly messy legal battle will have no impact on the election itself, however.

Residents should follow the same voting rules and deadlines as before in order to make sure their vote is counted, according to a city news release that came just days after the lawsuit was filed.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/06/tempe-coyotes-election-date-phoenix-lawsuit/70081051007/

 

[Golden_Jet]

Lawsuits will not stop the special election…

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/04/06/tempe-coyotes-election-date-phoenix-lawsuit/70081051007/

Subscription only.

 

[gstommylee]

Media folks outside the market do very little research into all the nuances surrounding this saga.

Said better owner would still have to deal with the same issues.

 

[TheLegend]

Subscription only.

I quoted the relevant part.

Tempe city staff confirmed the vote will happen no matter what.

The speculation will then begin if Phoenix’s move was intended to interfere with the vote.

Phoenix had previously sent flyers to Tempe and Scottsdale residents implying how they may face increased noise issues and other things prior to the November City Council meetings when TED was up for approval.

Part of the Coyotes’ claim announcement includes their intention is to go after all Phoenix city documents in regards to the sending of that material in a discovery phase.

IOW…. we’re now looking at the possibility of one city tampering with another city’s affairs for their own gain.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I quoted the relevant part.

Tempe city staff confirmed the vote will happen no matter what.

The speculation will then begin if Phoenix’s move was intended to interfere with the vote.

Phoenix had previously sent flyers to Tempe and Scottsdale residents implying how they may face increased noise issues and other things prior to the November City Council meetings when TED was up for approval.

Part of the Coyotes’ claim announcement includes their intention is to go after all Phoenix city documents in regards to the sending of that material in a discovery phase.

IOW…. we’re now looking at the possibility of one city tampering with another city’s affairs for their own gain.

Ya I don’t see why you wouldn’t have the vote, even if don’t know the legal ramifications. Not likely ground would be broken before this disagreement plays out.

 

[TheLegend]

Ya I don’t see why you wouldn’t have the vote, even if don’t know the legal ramifications. Not likely ground would be broken before this disagreement plays out.

He could still even build the arena if it were to pass. Phoenix limited their objection to the housing units. They wouldn’t be constructed until sometime in year three.

That would be an enormous risk though since the housing part helps make the arena possible.

 

[LadyStanley]

Insiders don't see countersunk impacting vote.

 

[bleedblue94]

well...

The New York Islanders
- horrible lease that was blatantly bad like 5 years after they signed it and you had 25 years of trying to get out of it, trying to build a new arena. Trying to condemn the Coliseum as "unsafe" to get out of it. You had John Spano fraudulently buying the team; you had a new owner with a Hockey For Dummies book buying the team to try and get the Lighthouse Project built, moving to Barclays Center which was NOT built for hockey and had like 9000 good hockey seats, and then going back to NVMC once they got a deal done for UBS.

But things are GREAT now that UBS is open. It's like they're a real franchise for the first time since 1987. This is our hope for the Coyotes in Tempe.

New York Mets
Less about facilities, because Shea was old and a dump, but kinda beloved by the die-hards; but the first new stadium plans were approved by the city and then cancelled because of 9/11. Then there was Olympic bid possibilities, then finally they got the go-ahead for Citi Field. Which the owners kind of screwed up, negating the strengths of their franchise player and alienating fans. You had DECADES of the Wilpon's idiocy Not giving the GM a budget number but making decisions on which players "win the back page" from the Yankees. You had just clownshoes management, firing managers one game into a West Coast road trip (which made sense internally, but not externally, I can explain that if nec). Countless PR nightmares. The owners were investing the TEAM'S MONEY with Bernie Madoff, but when that all came crumbling down, MLB didn't force the owners to sell and doomed the fanbase into small market decisions. They kept trading all their prospects to go for it one last time before finally selling to a legit owner. Which now, everyone's talking about how much money he's spent, but he literally has to because there's simply NO ONE in the farm to take the place of free agents. No outfielders, no pitchers. Just a catcher, a third baseman and a DH.

Oakland Athletics
From the time they broke ground on Oakland Coliseum... 37 newer MLB stadiums have opened. MLB screwed up during the merger of AL and NL into MLB, accidentally listing San Jose as exclusive Giants territory, when the agreement the A's signed was just an acknowledgement that the Giants could move there without permission/vote of the American League (because the deadline for "California government rebuilding post earthquake" money was looming and MLB's commissioner just died). Sewage flooding the lockerrooms and dugouts, trading every player making more than a couple million, will they move to Fremont? Renovating the Coliseum with Mount Davis for the Raiders, now will they move to Vegas and they're drawing 3000 a game.

Coyotes are currently in their third building, w less than 5k seats, actually thrown out of their home arena (can be spun however but they got tossed out), losing money for 15 straight years, how many owners, how many scandals, no arena deal set, now in the middle of municipalities and potential lawsuits in the billions, still no resolution in site, and starring this 5k building in the face for 3 total seasons or more if this works out is insane and not really comparable to any of the ones you're digging on. Mets, really? Oakland is on its way to announcing a move to Vegas as soon as it's lease is over and they can get out of the dump stadium, not really comparable. Islanders for all the junk didn't even touch this and the only thing that would approach it was John Spano but that was on the league for not vetting properly. Yotes are in a league of their own at this point and it's been this way time after time with the franchise since they moved there. Feel awful for their fans but this is now 2 decades into a complete circus that is NOT an indictment on the fans or their fan support. You literally have municipalities fighting each other to not allow the team to build a building. It is nuts.