CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

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TheLegend

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You're desperately trying to derail what I said.

My point was specific, AM has gone too far off the rails, he's put the entire league in a bind.

Regardless of what plans may have been made when he bought the team, it's easy to believe the owners are beyond irritated with this situation. He's threatening the value of every NHL team, by not having an arena ready.

You've already derailed the thread.

They're playing at ASU for the next three years. Posting every doomsday scenario you can think of and complaining how it's such an embarrassment (to you) isn't going to change that.

The league realizes this is NOT the ideal situation, but it's the path they had to take because they weren't given much choice.

FACT: The business plan for remaining in Glendale was dead. Been so since 2006 when the franchise was separated from Westgate.

FACT: Meruelo wanted to stay at GRA while pursuing his new arena proposal.

FACT: In losing it's main tenant, Glendale did not want another arena in the market built to have to compete with.

FACT: Meruelo wants to remain in Arizona.

FACT: The LEAGUE wants to remain in Arizona so long as the owner of the franchise wants to.

FACT: Time factors and local politics led to then settling for ASU. Veterans Memorial Coliseum required too much time and $75-100 million in renovation just to meet minimal code and standards. Suns owner doesn't want to share Footprint arena with anyone. Chase Field was not practical from a scheduling standpoint.

This owners recognize all of this. They know it's not an ideal situation but it checks to most boxes.

Get over it.
 

Roadrage

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I think we will know before the end of the year if Tempe approves the arena and surrounding area development. If it's a green light, then new arena for Coyotes in 3-4 years from approval. If not, I can actually see this drag on even longer as the team will continuing to look for any pile of dirt options to stay (tribal land perhaps?). Bettman will continue to say they are looking for a landing spot prolonging the teams stay at ASU for at least another year or 2 beyond the initial agreement until either 1) AM is tried of losing money and sells team to anyone willing to pay for his losses, 2) AM takes on partners willing to help with the debt load, or 3) Someone willing to pay crazy money to purchase and relocate. Super longshot 4th option is league buys the team again. Absolute worst case scenario for team would be to go back to GRA and sign a long term agreement.
 

TheLegend

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Fact: The team is already hundreds of millions of dollars in debt and will continue to add to that debt by the tens of millions of dollars and the team is and will be carrying so much debt that the sale with never actually be profitable to whoever "owns" the team.

Are there losses? Yes.

Is their debt? Probably.

But still speculation.

You don't know what the actual financial situation is.

Nobody does.
 
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fryfunk

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Can I ask a question to be sure what you are saying here?

Are you saying that next month, when the BOG gets together, that Meruelo better be able to show the BOG that there is a signed contract for the new arena, and if he cannot do that by next month's BOG meeting, that the team is relocating?
It's more complicated than that. He has to convince the owners his plan is actually gonna work out on schedule.

It's a crap shoot.
 

Ernie

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Fact: The team is already hundreds of millions of dollars in debt and will continue to add to that debt by the tens of millions of dollars and the team is and will be carrying so much debt that the sale with never actually be profitable to whoever "owns" the team.

I would be curious as to what the economics actually are. The league sends the team tens of millions per year from media deals and revenue sharing. The costs are pretty fixed from here on in terms of the arena. By all appearances they run a pretty small front office. They are abie to get their payroll down well below the salary cap minimum but bringing in LTIR and back diving contracts.

They may not be losing as much as we think. If Meruelo is good at one thing, it's protecting the bottom line.
 

MNNumbers

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It's more complicated than that. He has to convince the owners his plan is actually gonna work out on schedule.

It's a crap shoot.

And, you are saying that he has to convince them of this in the June BOG meeting? Again, I just want to make sure I understand your timeline. Thanks.
 

fryfunk

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Feb 4, 2022
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You've already derailed the thread.
Did you even read the thread topic?


They're playing at ASU for the next three years. Posting every doomsday scenario you can think of and complaining how it's such an embarrassment (to you) isn't going to change that.
I'm primary talking about the one because that is the topic up for dicussion.



The league realizes this is NOT the ideal situation, but it's the path they had to take because they weren't given much choice.
What's your point?

FACT: The business plan for remaining in Glendale was dead. Been so since 2006 when the franchise was separated from Westgate.

FACT: Meruelo wanted to stay at GRA while pursuing his new arena proposal.

FACT: In losing it's main tenant, Glendale did not want another arena in the market built to have to compete with.

FACT: Meruelo wants to remain in Arizona.

FACT: The LEAGUE wants to remain in Arizona so long as the owner of the franchise wants to.

You just listed a series of wants, that no one has disputed. If you were a coach making a 2nd intermission speech, I'd give you two thumbs up.
FACT: Time factors and local politics led to then settling for ASU. Veterans Memorial Coliseum required too much time and $75-100 million in renovation just to meet minimal code and standards. Suns owner doesn't want to share Footprint arena with anyone. Chase Field was not practical from a scheduling standpoint.
I'm not sure if tell me why it isn't working, is proving much of anything.

This is a disaster on many levels.

This owners recognize all of this. They know it's not an ideal situation but it checks to most boxes.
They see what is going on yes, but if you told them this was gonna happen just 5 years ago they would of pulled the plug.

It doesn't "check the boxes", it's a desperate loop hole.

Get over it.
I'll get over it, when it's over.
 
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TheLegend

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And, you are saying that he has to convince them of this in the June BOG meeting? Again, I just want to make sure I understand your timeline. Thanks.

I will suggest the BOG has been completely advised of the entire situation from the get go. That includes the Tempe proposal, ASU, etc.

If anything….. What the June meeting will encompass is Meruelo providing them an update as to where everything is at.

This is a done thing for next season. What happens afterwards will be dependent upon where the Tempe proposal is at.
 
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fryfunk

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I will suggest the BOG has been completely advised of the entire situation from the get go. That includes the Tempe proposal, ASU, etc.
Sure
If anything….. What the June meeting will encompass is Meruelo providing them an update as to where everything is at.
And coming to a decision on where the league decides to go next.


This is a done thing for next season. What happens afterwards will be dependent upon where the Tempe proposal is at.
They are not gonna wait until next season.

This is a done deal in a few weeks for better or worst, I'll bet my account on that one.

The league isn't going through the humiliation of ASU unless they know they are getting Tempe in 3 seasons.
 
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MNNumbers

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Sure

And coming to a decision on where the league decides to go next.



They are not gonna wait until next season.

This is a done deal in a few weeks for better or worst, I'll bet my account on that one.

The league isn't going through the humiliation of ASU unless they know they are getting Tempe in 3 seasons.

If you really would be willing to bet your account, that's a bet that will come to happen, because there won't be a final decision in Tempe by the time the BOG meets.
 

gstommylee

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first thing, the NHL legally can't force AM to sell and can't for him to move the team... So the idea that that NHL is gonna "move the yotes" is ridiclous.. There are federal laws that prevent private business regulating another private business.

Second thing you can not rush anything through any levels of government, or it gets throw out in court due to not following city procedure.

The team is locked in ASU for 3 years with a 4th year as an option. If it takes another year for tempe's arena to get approved then it takes another year... Welcome to how government works. oh and there's also the evironmental review of it as well and that can take a year that too can't be rushed or it gets thrown out in courts.
 

1CasualFan

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Feb 14, 2022
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The league isn't going through the humiliation of ASU unless they know they are getting Tempe in 3 seasons.

I strongly doubt the NHL BOG thinks of any of these issues the way that you do. Just because you view the ASU arena as "humiliation" does not mean they do. As always, the NHLs decisions will be governed by their options - right now, the AZ franchise is secure at ASU for near future - regards of what Tempe does or doesn't do.
 
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Ernie

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I strongly doubt the NHL BOG thinks of any of these issues the way that you do. Just because you view the ASU arena as "humiliation" does not mean they do. As always, the NHLs decisions will be governed by their options - right now, the AZ franchise is secure at ASU for near future - regards of what Tempe does or doesn't do.

The Athletic granted the executives’ anonymity as they were not permitted by the league nor their teams to speak publicly on the matter.

“Just a nightmare all around,” one executive said of the proposal, which comes at a time when financial matters have been in the spotlight for the league as it deals with the effects of shortened seasons and lost attendance caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Multiple executives called the plan “embarrassing.”

Chief among concerns is the impact the move could have on hockey-related revenue (HRR), which could affect everything from the amount of profits in owners pockets to the salary cap.

Still, the commitment to Arizona is a common point of frustration for executives who say hockey in Arizona hasn’t been a winning formula for business.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point the league had to bite the bullet and force the current ownership to make a move or sell,” one team executive said. “They’ve botched the situation with Glendale. What’s to say anyone believes they’ll actually get something done in three or four years?”

“They should be excluded from revenue sharing. Why should they be rewarded?” said an executive whose team is also on the receiving end of the league’s revenue-sharing agreement. “My owner is pissed about it, other owners are pissed about it. I’m sure the players are also pissed about it.”

 

TheLegend

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Sure

And coming to a decision on where the league decides to go next.



They are not gonna wait until next season.

This is a done deal in a few weeks for better or worst, I'll bet my account on that one.

The league isn't going through the humiliation of ASU unless they know they are getting Tempe in 3 seasons.

Keep attacking that windmill.

The rest of us are going to see what happens on June 2 when the Tempe city council council meets again in special session.
 

TheLegend

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WeaponOfChoice

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You mean acceptable risk TO YOU.

But now we're comparing this to Jim Balsillie??

Alex Meruelo brought the Coyotes just so he could burn through millions of his OWN money over the next 3 years on a scheme that will culminate the Coyotes moving to Hamilton where he's always wanted to go.

I actually know of one poster on HFBoards who would completely buy that hook line and sinker.
Hey:naughty:
 
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TheLegend

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Full Tempe statement:

Tempe, AZ – The Tempe City Council on June 2 will consider whether a proposal to build a professional hockey arena, hotels, offices, retail and residential on city land should proceed to a formal negotiation phase. This proposal was submitted by the Meruelo Group and the Arizona Coyotes through their affiliate, Bluebird Development, LLC.

A yes decision means that the city and the developer can negotiate. This is not approval of the project itself. This decision would trigger a months-long process that will include community input and public meetings.

A no decision means that the Council has officially declined the proposal of the developer. The Council could choose after this to issue a new call for proposals at this location.

City adheres to typical process
Months before the Council can decide whether to officially select the proposing organization to build an entertainment district at Priest Drive and Rio Salado Parkway, the Councilmembers must first decide if the city should formally negotiate with the proposer.

Tempe issued a Request for Proposals (RFP) for a professional sports entertainment district on July 22, 2021. One proposal, from Bluebird LLC, was received on Sept. 2, 2021. Since that time, city staff members have been analyzing the proposal with the assistance of sports, legal and financial consultants as part of its intensive due diligence process.

The city announced in an April statement that the Council directed city staff to seek clarification from the project proposer on a number of matters. Having followed Council’s direction, the city is at a point at which it is appropriate to seek the Council’s permission to negotiate if it is Council’s direction to do so. City Manager Andrew Ching said the process that will occur June 2 is common for any development proposal on city land.

“Final decisions on this developer’s ideas are not happening June 2. This is about whether the Council wants to talk more about the group’s ideas or not,” Ching said. “We wanted to provide ample notice to community members about this meeting so they can learn more and make plans to provide input if they choose.”

One example of a similar process has been the city’s RFP for the Hayden Flour Mill & Silos. On Feb. 10, the Council voted to negotiate with the proposer of a redevelopment project at the site. Negotiations are continuing and could result in a draft agreement for the Council’s future consideration. Selecting a developer to negotiate with is not the same as choosing a developer to do business with.
What if the Council chooses to enter negotiations?
If the City Councilmembers vote on June 2 to proceed with negotiations, that means they have officially accepted the original submittal of the developer and want to hear more. It does not mean that the project is moving forward. There would be a long road ahead before that would be decided on. Negotiations could take several months.

During negotiations, the parties would attempt to formulate a Development and Disposition Agreement (DDA), which is a highly detailed, legal document of financial terms, timelines, specifics about what would be built and more. It would include the financial terms, timelines, specifics about what would be built and more. A draft DDA would be brought before the Council in the future for a public formal vote.

A robust public input process would happen before the Council’s decision.

Finally, even with an approved DDA, the Council would still have several public meetings to decide on aspects like zoning approvals and General Plan amendments, as needed.

What if the Council declines to enter negotiations?
If the City Council votes against negotiations on June 2, that means it has officially passed on the proposal of the developer. It would make this specific proposal moot. The Council could choose at a later time to issue a new RFP seeking development at this location, or it could choose to do nothing for now.

If you participate: what to expect June 2

The format for the June 2 meeting will include a presentation from the development team to the Council; questions from City Councilmembers to the developer; input from community members and a vote on whether to proceed to negotiations. During the meeting, the City Council also could temporarily adjourn to a closed session allowed by state law in order to obtain legal guidance.

Community members can participate physically or virtually.

In-person attendance
The meeting will begin at 2 p.m. in the City Council Chambers, 31 E. Fifth St. Doors will open at 1:30 p.m. Signs, banners and other similar visual items will not be permitted in the City Council Chambers. Face masks are strongly recommended for those attending in person.

Anyone who would like to speak to the Council will need to fill out a comment card available in the room.

Virtual attendance
Residents can participate virtually by filling out a comment card to request to speak virtually and registering through Webex. The City Clerk’s Office accepts requests for virtual speaking until two hours before the meeting. Visit tempe.gov/CouncilMeetingInfofor details.

While emails to City Councilmembers or staff are read and appreciated, they are not part of the official Council meeting record.

Residents who do not have comments or questions can watch from home on Cox Channel 11 or by watching tempe.gov/tempe11. The city will announce the Council’s decision shortly after the meeting ends.

June 2 public meeting: Tempe City Council to consider next steps with hockey proposer
 

Final Baton

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So if the city says "no" to this specific proposal by group Bluebird,

can group Bluebird submit another proposal later? (provided the city opens another RFP)? or is it 1 proposal ONLY by each group?

(I am admitedly not well versed in the lingo of this situation, so bear with me)
 
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TheLegend

"Just say it 3 times..."
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So if the city says "no" to this specific proposal by group Bluebird,

can group Bluebird submit another proposal later? (provided the city opens another RFP)? or is it 1 proposal ONLY by each group?

(I am admitedly not well versed in the lingo of this situation, so bear with me)

They could submit another proposal if an RFP opens up again. But then so could anyone else.

Plus there’s a very distinct time factor involved so the chances are not likely.

The city can still accept the proposal now and not approve it later. What a yes vote on June 2nd would mean is the city feels the proposal is close enough to continue negotiations on any remaining differences and finally allow public input. That would take about a month as there are two public hearings required.

The big advantage to a yes vote would mean we finally get to see the details of the project made public.
 
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Final Baton

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They could submit another proposal if an RFP opens up again. But then so could anyone else.

Plus there’s a very distinct time factor involved so the chances are not likely.
Thanks for the explanation.

So of if it's a no, they need to find another permanent nhl-sized arena to play in that's ready between now and 3-4 years max, essentially? I wonder how much time the BoG would give them to secure a new arena...
 

gstommylee

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Thanks for the explanation.

So of if it's a no, they need to find another permanent nhl-sized arena to play in that's ready between now and 3-4 years max, essentially?

If they want to remain long term they'll have to find another site and go through the process again.
 
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