CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

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TheLegend

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Thanks for the explanation.

So of if it's a no, they need to find another permanent nhl-sized arena to play in that's ready between now and 3-4 years max, essentially? I wonder how much time the BoG would give them to secure a new arena...

Good question.

There have been rumors Meruelo has a backup plan ready to go. But it’s only a rumor.

They’re secured at ASU for the next three years if they need it but given it takes about two years to built an arena from ground up the timeline is very tight.
 

Final Baton

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Nov 13, 2010
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Good question.

There have been rumors Meruelo has a backup plan ready to go. But it’s only a rumor.

They’re secured at ASU for the next three years if they need it but given it takes about two years to built an arena from ground up the timeline is very tight.
Hope it works out for you guys. I've lost my team and know how much it hurts, I don't wish that on anybody.
 

JimAnchower

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Dec 8, 2012
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If you really would be willing to bet your account, that's a bet that will come to happen, because there won't be a final decision in Tempe by the time the BOG meets.
It would seem these are the events that would have to happen for it to happen on that timeline:
- Tempe says no at the June 2, saying they don't want enter formal negotiations with the Coyotes
- Meruelo has no other long term options in the Phoenix area and is willing to sell
- The ASU lease is easy to escape
- There is another owner willing to buy, has an available arena, and willing to move the team on short notice.
- That owner has been fully vetted by the BOG
- The league has a scheduling contingency for the new location
 

fryfunk

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Feb 4, 2022
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first thing, the NHL legally can't force AM to sell and can't for him to move the team... So the idea that that NHL is gonna "move the yotes" is ridiclous.. There are federal laws that prevent private business regulating another private business.
Unless you know they don't have a proper arena to play in.

If he doesn't have something concrete by the BOG meeting he's in trouble.

The league isn't gonna tolerate "I'm working on it".

Second thing you can not rush anything through any levels of government, or it gets throw out in court due to not following city procedure.
You don't say.


The team is locked in ASU for 3 years with a 4th year as an option.
No AM is locked in, the league hasn't decided.


If it takes another year for tempe's arena to get approved then it takes another year... Welcome to how government works.
That's why the NHL isn't a major partner with any government.

Their business model works on owners being in control of their own destiny.
oh and there's also the evironmental review of it as well and that can take a year that too can't be rushed or it gets thrown out in courts.
You don't say.
 

Yukon Joe

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first thing, the NHL legally can't force AM to sell and can't for him to move the team... So the idea that that NHL is gonna "move the yotes" is ridiclous.. There are federal laws that prevent private business regulating another private business.

Second thing you can not rush anything through any levels of government, or it gets throw out in court due to not following city procedure.

The team is locked in ASU for 3 years with a 4th year as an option. If it takes another year for tempe's arena to get approved then it takes another year... Welcome to how government works. oh and there's also the evironmental review of it as well and that can take a year that too can't be rushed or it gets thrown out in courts.
NHL Constitution specifically allows for the termination / sale of a team, so to flatly say "NHL legally can't force AM to sell" is not true. Other leagues have forced owners to sell in the past.

Not to say forcing a sale would be easy - it would almost certainly result in messy litigation which is the last thing the NHL would want. But it may be possible.
 
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Major4Boarding

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I’ve pulled 4 different copies of an ASU Agreement and Supplemental Terms and Conditions documents they pretty much state the same terms.

Have we considered that this “good behavior” clause is just a revised version of the Conflict of Interest clause or am I too outside my sandbox
 
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fryfunk

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Feb 4, 2022
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NHL Constitution specifically allows for the termination / sale of a team, so to flatly say "NHL legally can't force AM to sell" is not true. Other leagues have forced owners to sell in the past.

Not to say forcing a sale would be easy - it would almost certainly result in messy litigation which is the last thing the NHL would want. But it may be possible.
Unless AM is smart enough to want the biggest sale price possible.

The league can easily reject a 500 million dollar offer from QC for example.

AM doesn't have the financial situation or the resources to resist a sale.

I'm pretty sure ASU is a major major violation of the spirit of the "suitable arena" concept, especially if there any substantial uncertainties with Tempe.

If I were a betting man, ASU works because it's leverage is asking for a higher sale price.
 

OG6ix

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Unless you know they don't have a proper arena to play in.

If he doesn't have something concrete by the BOG meeting he's in trouble.

The league isn't gonna tolerate "I'm working on it".

you are so bias - no way are they going to force him to have something concrete by the next BOG meeting. Listen to Bettman and you will find that the league is giving them runway time to figure out whether it's Tempe or bust.
 

fryfunk

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Feb 4, 2022
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you are so bias - no way are they going to force him to have something concrete by the next BOG meeting. Listen to Bettman and you will find that the league

By simply showing up to this thread you can argue I'm biased, and you do.

Impartial peoples aren't showing up at all. Just go to the general league discussions, any time this whole situation comes up and most people take it for granted the team is leaving.

I'll admit there's a chance this could work out and go ahead.

is giving them runway time to figure out whether it's Tempe or bust.
Yes and they're running out fast.

The league isn't gonna just go with "lets see what happens".

ASU is going ahead only if it is conclusively proven to be temporary.

They're not gonna jeopardize the value of NHL franchises, their arenas, or their tv contracts, to run an experiment.

If tempe happens it's a done deal, but it has to be a sure thing.
 

MNNumbers

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Impartial peoples aren't showing up at all. Just go to the general league discussions, any time this whole situation comes up and most people take it for granted the team is leaving.
...snip

I consider myself to be an impartiel person, so allow me a couple of comments.

It is clear that the Coyotes have lost a lot of money in the last 8 years.
It is also clear that a good reason for that is lack of Arena management rights, or other sources of income directly connected the area around the arena. One reason that Winnipeg and Nashville work is that their owners have other sources of income dierctly associated with the teams. Does this mean that the team itself has as much HRR in a year as the Preds or the Jets? No. But it is a factor, and reasonable people will consider that.
The Tempe proposal is a move on the part of the Coyotes to arrange to have exactly this kind of extra which they need.
The league must surely realize this - for the league is very aware of the Winnipeg, Nashville and even Florida situations.

Now, as for timelines.

City of Tempe is going to vote on whether or not to continue the process a week from tonight. There are clearly 2 possibilities.

If they vote 'yes' then the project goes on, but there is no contract yet, and said contract might take months to arrange, since there have to be funding negotiations, and also community involvement. Since the BOG meet later in June, it is absolutely absurd to think that the NHL will pull the plug at this point, when everything Meruelo has planned for is still in the works. Therefore, like it or not, in the case of a "yes" vote, the Coyotes will play at ASU in 22-23 no matter what eventually happens.

If they vote 'no' then there again 2 possibilities:
1 - There is no other plan from Meruelo which has any substance at all to it right now. In this case, a relocation is likely, however, it is very late to do a relo, as even the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg was announced earlier than this. Obviously, if a relo happens this summer, it will have to be to Quebec, because no where else is in any way prepared for it. (This is, of course, what you want to happen). However, it is my thought that it would be too late for a relo this summer, and so again, the team will be at ASU for at least a year.

2- There is another plans which Meruelo has in place. In this case, also, if you are the BOG, why pull the plug? No reason. If Plan B is close to being a sure thing, then you let it play out. It's really too late to relocate anyway, so you give them a year.

In general, it seems that any relocation which might end up being necessary can't happen until Fall 23.
 

Ernie

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Aug 3, 2004
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NHL Constitution specifically allows for the termination / sale of a team, so to flatly say "NHL legally can't force AM to sell" is not true. Other leagues have forced owners to sell in the past.

Not to say forcing a sale would be easy - it would almost certainly result in messy litigation which is the last thing the NHL would want. But it may be possible.

Nobody is going to have to force anything. The Coyotes go straight into bankruptcy without the NHL's financial support and I believe the league is the biggest creditor.

As much as Meruelo has screwed up he's still followed Bettman's overall plan so I expect that he will be made whole one way or another like previous Coyotes "owners" have been.

It's been the unwritten rule ever since Leipold backed away from selling the Predators to Balsillie. Bettman ensured that Leipold got his money out and then helped him buy the Wild.

Moyes' big mistake was trying to force matters. What happened to him was a good warning to other owners not to make trouble.
 
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TheLegend

"Just say it 3 times..."
Aug 30, 2009
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I’ve pulled 4 different copies of an ASU Agreement and Supplemental Terms and Conditions documents they pretty much state the same terms.

Have we considered that this “good behavior” clause is just a revised version of the Conflict of Interest clause or am I too outside my sandbox

CF can give you a far better explanation than I ever could.

But in this layman's POV.... if you are referring to the mandatory clause Arizona requires for all city/county lease contracts (that prompted the original 15 year lease with IA to be terminated by Glendale) there are similarities.
 

Yukon Joe

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I consider myself to be an impartiel person, so allow me a couple of comments.

It is clear that the Coyotes have lost a lot of money in the last 8 years.
It is also clear that a good reason for that is lack of Arena management rights, or other sources of income directly connected the area around the arena. One reason that Winnipeg and Nashville work is that their owners have other sources of income dierctly associated with the teams. Does this mean that the team itself has as much HRR in a year as the Preds or the Jets? No. But it is a factor, and reasonable people will consider that.
The Tempe proposal is a move on the part of the Coyotes to arrange to have exactly this kind of extra which they need.
The league must surely realize this - for the league is very aware of the Winnipeg, Nashville and even Florida situations.

Now, as for timelines.

City of Tempe is going to vote on whether or not to continue the process a week from tonight. There are clearly 2 possibilities.

If they vote 'yes' then the project goes on, but there is no contract yet, and said contract might take months to arrange, since there have to be funding negotiations, and also community involvement. Since the BOG meet later in June, it is absolutely absurd to think that the NHL will pull the plug at this point, when everything Meruelo has planned for is still in the works. Therefore, like it or not, in the case of a "yes" vote, the Coyotes will play at ASU in 22-23 no matter what eventually happens.

If they vote 'no' then there again 2 possibilities:
1 - There is no other plan from Meruelo which has any substance at all to it right now. In this case, a relocation is likely, however, it is very late to do a relo, as even the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg was announced earlier than this. Obviously, if a relo happens this summer, it will have to be to Quebec, because no where else is in any way prepared for it. (This is, of course, what you want to happen). However, it is my thought that it would be too late for a relo this summer, and so again, the team will be at ASU for at least a year.

2- There is another plans which Meruelo has in place. In this case, also, if you are the BOG, why pull the plug? No reason. If Plan B is close to being a sure thing, then you let it play out. It's really too late to relocate anyway, so you give them a year.

In general, it seems that any relocation which might end up being necessary can't happen until Fall 23.

Generally a pretty good assessment of where things are at, but I will point out that the Thrashers move to Winnipeg was announced May 31, so there's still a miniscule amount of time for a relocation.

GIven how Meruelo has ponied up $20 mil for the ASU improvements already, I think he must have been given enough assurances that Tempe won't just completely pull the plug at this stage. That's far from saying Tempe will sign off on the final proposal mind you...
 

PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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The push back from the students isn't gonna occur until something happens.



It's a what if, but it's the kind of what if that could jeopardize the team.

You think if Evander Kane signs to the yotes they won't have some serious issue with students? I'm not sure if you've been following what has been occuring with universities but I promise you the students have way more influence than they ever had in the past.

My understanding of these morality clauses is that they are not rigidly defined, but used for unexpected situations, where objectivity can be superseded by opinion.
Student groups have been trying to push Nike off the Oregon campus for a generation now. Never happens. It perhaps SHOULD happen because students SHOULD be more empowered. Unfortunately it’s not working like that.

So I’m pretty much laughing at the line of reasoning displayed here despite myself.
 
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fryfunk

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Student groups have been trying to push Nike off the Oregon campus for a generation now.
"for a generation"

I love these phrases, I don't know what it is with sports fans but they really have trouble with what is considered a relevant frame of reference.

It's been stated numerous times that this is a new thing that has only come about since the late 20teens.

Before that there was more students than there was universities. The zoomer cohort is a small generation, the competition for students is massive. Every year they keep lowering the bar, which causes the neighboring universities to lower the bar even further.

Colleges are increasingly being ran like resort towns. Because thanks to the popularity of online learning (since covid), that is what they have become.

I can tell you as fact, that our Local University president stated outright that his mission is getting more people on Campus, and making it clear that it'll happily be at the expense of actual learning.

When you spend the better part of two years with campuses that resemble grave yards you tend to get a little bit wacky with how you do things.
Never happens. It perhaps SHOULD happen because students SHOULD be more empowered. Unfortunately it’s not working like that.

So I’m pretty much laughing at the line of reasoning displayed here despite myself.
ok millenial.
 
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awfulwaffle

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Jun 20, 2011
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Unless you know they don't have a proper arena to play in.

If he doesn't have something concrete by the BOG meeting he's in trouble.

The league isn't gonna tolerate "I'm working on it".


You don't say.



No AM is locked in, the league hasn't decided.



That's why the NHL isn't a major partner with any government.

Their business model works on owners being in control of their own destiny.

You don't say.

This is all speculation by you regarding the leagues opinion.
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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Chet Manley

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Apr 15, 2007
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"for a generation"

I love these phrases, I don't know what it is with sports fans but they really have trouble with what is considered a relevant frame of reference.

It's been stated numerous times that this is a new thing that has only come about since the late 20teens.

Before that there was more students than there was universities. The zoomer cohort is a small generation, the competition for students is massive. Every year they keep lowering the bar, which causes the neighboring universities to lower the bar even further.

Colleges are increasingly being ran like resort towns. Because thanks to the popularity of online learning (since covid), that is what they have become.

I can tell you as fact, that our Local University president stated outright that his mission is getting more people on Campus, and making it clear that it'll happily be at the expense of actual learning.

When you spend the better part of two years with campuses that resemble grave yards you tend to get a little bit wacky with how you do things.

ok millenial.
The whole boomer/Gen x/millennial/Gen Z thing isn't a naming convention for all uses of the word generation. Post secondary has a ~3 to 8 year lifespan. Bacteria less than a day. Etc.
 

TheLegend

"Just say it 3 times..."
Aug 30, 2009
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Why Sky Harbor officials are worried about Arizona Coyotes' proposed entertainment district

Source (Paywall):
www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2022/05/26/sky-harbor-coyote-arena-development/9624291002/

Tempe leaders to vote June 2 on negotiating with Arizona Coyotes on proposed arena

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2022/05/26/tempe-vote-arizona-coyotes-arena-proposal-negotiations/9942762002/

Both articles are well written but mostly summaries of what we already know.

The first article also contains comments from a handful of Tempe residents.
 
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