CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

[TheLegend]

That chart is from two years ago...

This link you show... https://cms.nhl.bamgrid.com/images/assets/binary/327010494/binary-file/file.pdf

Will bring up the 2021-22 season.

Which is a good comparison in showing prices were trending upward.


Single game tickets are another matter. I did some perusing of Ticketmaster near the end of last season and some glass seats listed for over $400 each.


One other thing to consider here....

Lower bowl at GRA went to row X. At the MPA it only goes to Row N. This is where the "exclusivity" factor comes in with setting prices.

 

[aqib]

Re: Shovels in the ground.

One… it’s a landfill. Cleaning it out will require an alphabet soup of agencies to be involved. The soil has to go somewhere.

Two… it’s a landfill. Considering what they’re finding in the exposed bottom of Lake Mead lately who knows what’s buried in there?

I always wondered what "land remediation" entails. This isn't unique to this case because there have been a few cases of sports venues being proposed on land that was considered contaminated. I am not an environmental scientist but what happens in these cases. Do they just keep digging until you get far enough down that there is no more chemicals and then haul that soil away? Do you treat the soil that's there?

 

[Ciao]

That chart is from two years ago...

This link you show... https://cms.nhl.bamgrid.com/images/assets/binary/327010494/binary-file/file.pdf

Will bring up the 2021-22 season.

Which is a good comparison in showing prices were trending upward.


Single game tickets are another matter. I did some perusing of Ticketmaster near the end of last season and some glass seats listed for over $400 each.


One other thing to consider here....

Lower bowl at GRA went to row X. At the MPA it only goes to Row N. This is where the "exclusivity" factor comes in with setting prices.

I dont think the ticket prices for the up coming season are at al out of line for what you're getting. They're more in line with the price of premium tickets in the rest of the league.

Still, I could understand some sticker shock for buyers of the cheap seats, which no longer exist.

You really can't make a direct comparison between the Glendale and Tempe ticket prices. It's apples and oranges, and I guess they don't really sell the "apples" anymore if those were cheap seats.

The people who bought those were a different clientele who will either have to seriously adjust their price-points or get a good streaming package.

As a Leafs fan, I can sympathize. I go for the streaming.

 

[TheLegend]

I dont think the ticket prices for the up coming season are at al out of line for what you're getting. They're more in line with the price of premium tickets in the rest of the league.

Still, I could understand some sticker shock for buyers of the cheap seats, which no longer exist.

You really can't make a direct comparison between the Glendale and Tempe ticket prices. It's apples and oranges, and I guess they don't really sell the "apples" anymore if those were cheap seats.

The people who bought those were a different clientele who will either have to seriously adjust their price-points or get a good streaming package.

As a Leafs fan, I can sympathize. I go for the streaming.

Agreed….

Most sticker shock responses I see is coming from those who had upper level, or the lesser lower level packages over the years.

If the Arena/TED gets built there should be something for them then. But that is 3-4 years away and the Coyotes will have do what they can to keep them interested in coming back.

 

[sh724]

I always wondered what "land remediation" entails. This isn't unique to this case because there have been a few cases of sports venues being proposed on land that was considered contaminated. I am not an environmental scientist but what happens in these cases. Do they just keep digging until you get far enough down that there is no more chemicals and then haul that soil away? Do you treat the soil that's there?

I cant speak from the enviornmental scientiest side, but for the bank i work at we have to enviornmental tests for some businesses depending on the industry, the size of the loan they are wanting, etc.

How the remdiation process works is largely dependent on what contaminants are there that you have to get rid of. Places that use to be gas stations, fuel depots, etc are much harder and costlier than most. Nuclear contamination being the biggest contaminent to deal, though that may not be an issue here. In this case it might be as simple as taking the soil out of the city and dumping it in a pit in the dessert.

 

[TheLegend]

Happened to remember Tempe had posted geographical and environmental survey documents regarding the property under the RFP area on their website.

It’s just some light reading….

This is the environmental survey… (239 pages)

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/91763/637662016057170000

And the geotechnical survey….. (just 84 pages)

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/91761/637662016019830000

 

[aqib]

I cant speak from the enviornmental scientiest side, but for the bank i work at we have to enviornmental tests for some businesses depending on the industry, the size of the loan they are wanting, etc.

How the remdiation process works is largely dependent on what contaminants are there that you have to get rid of. Places that use to be gas stations, fuel depots, etc are much harder and costlier than most. Nuclear contamination being the biggest contaminent to deal, though that may not be an issue here. In this case it might be as simple as taking the soil out of the city and dumping it in a pit in the dessert.

That's pretty standard for bank loans when they are taking real estate as security. I used to be a credit officer myself. Once when I was working for BankOne in Cleveland, I had a loan for scrap metal dealer and they had a big scrap yard in Youngstown, Ohio (there are literally songs about how run down Youngstown is). Now I didn't NEED a lien on the property to make the loan work, I just added it for extra security. The loan documentation people (loan ops had been consolidated in Kentucky) said they needed to make sure the land wasn't contaminated. I said "its a scarp metal yard in Youngstown, Ohio. I can guarantee its contaminated"

 

[Stumbledore]

Happened to remember Tempe had posted geographical and environmental survey documents regarding the property under the RFP area on their website.

It’s just some light reading….

This is the environmental survey… (239 pages)

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/91763/637662016057170000

And the geotechnical survey….. (just 84 pages)

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/91761/637662016019830000

Thanks for the amazing, non-prescription sleeping aid.

 

[TheLegend]

Thanks for the amazing, non-prescription sleeping aid.

Figured it would give everyone something to do until the next council meeting on the 18th. .


Side note: Coyotes were extremely lucky the ASU MPA came about as it did. It was originally going to be smaller and not have anywhere near the amenities it did before they inquired about playing there.

An inside look at ASU's nearly complete, multi-purpose arena - PHNX Sports

More details emerged when PHNX Sports toured ASU's new multi-purpose arena on Tuesday.

www.gophnx.com

When ASU began planning a new home for its Division I hockey team, the concept was much simpler.

“We were contemplating building a smaller arena that was going to be adjacent to Desert Financial Arena,” said Sun Devil Athletics CFO and senior associate athletic director Frank Ferrara. “We were looking at a 3,900-seat arena with an additional 300 standing room, no suites and no clubs.”

Had that initial plan reached fruition, the Coyotes would not be playing at ASU. Just as important, ASU’s newest venue would not have matched the university’s vision for creating sustainable, community assets.

Also.... the week they inquired was the last possible moment they could have done so and got in.....

(Peter Luukko is the co-chair of facilities for OVG, the arena's operator)

Luukko said that when the Coyotes contacted ASU about playing in the arena, the request came on what “was probably the last possible day it could have happened. I mean, it was literally that close.”

Even so, ASU was amenable to the deal with the understanding that it would have priority on all scheduling, and that the Coyotes would pay for all of the necessary upgrades.

“I’ve been involved in the National Hockey League for over 30 years,” Luukko said. “I was in the league when the Lightning played in the baseball stadium in Tampa, when the Senators played in the junior rink while their arena was being built, and when Calgary played at the (Stampede Corral). The beauty of this building is that it’s brand new. It’s a wrinkle obviously that none of us expected but on the other hand, the fact that it’s new means it’s going to be one hell of a temporary place for them to play.

“We have 22 suites, 15 loge boxes, 500 club seats. It’s got all of the amenities of a National Hockey League arena. It’s just a smaller scale. Put the economics and all the politics aside for a moment. In terms of a temporary place for a team to play, it couldn’t be any better. From a visitor standpoint, teams will be staying in Scottsdale and have the opportunity to be in an area that was a lot of fun when the team was originally here in downtown Phoenix. I know that from the National Hockey League and some of the press, there’s a little fear of the unknown, but the situation has presented itself where they have a great place to play until they get a new building built. You’re looking at one of the nicest facilities in North America.”

ASU Athletics CFO and associate athletic director Frank Ferrara goes on to mention the annex will provide the MPA with the means to draw regional tournaments given the extra locker rooms it will provide.

Ferrara said that the Coyotes partnership added the final piece to the puzzle.

“No building is perfect but if you had asked me before the Coyotes joined forces with us what our weakness was, I would have told you that I really would have liked two more quality locker rooms,” he said. “We have our visitors’ locker room, obviously we have our home suite, but now we’re going to have two other quality lockers that will be left behind. With those, we envision being a perennial host for an NCAA regional. That’s the kind of thing that allows us to do.”

 

[powerstuck]

I always wondered what "land remediation" entails. This isn't unique to this case because there have been a few cases of sports venues being proposed on land that was considered contaminated. I am not an environmental scientist but what happens in these cases. Do they just keep digging until you get far enough down that there is no more chemicals and then haul that soil away? Do you treat the soil that's there?

Rule of thumb is you dig and decontaminate until you hit virgin ground. Now that may vary from state to state by their own rules. Reading the geotechnical survers documents (in the appendix) deepest digs were stopped at 40 feet which should be the deepest they should decontaminate for.

As for what degree of decontamination, it also depends what's under the ground. If you find homogenic ground, exempt of contaminants (sand for exemple) that can potentially be reused for the said construction.

Most often than not, they will remove all ground, haul it away where it will be recycled and they will bring new materials for the construction.

 

[aqib]

Rule of thumb is you dig and decontaminate until you hit virgin ground. Now that may vary from state to state by their own rules. Reading the geotechnical survers documents (in the appendix) deepest digs were stopped at 40 feet which should be the deepest they should decontaminate for.

As for what degree of decontamination, it also depends what's under the ground. If you find homogenic ground, exempt of contaminants (sand for exemple) that can potentially be reused for the said construction.

Most often than not, they will remove all ground, haul it away where it will be recycled and they will bring new materials for the construction.

So what does decontaminating entail? (If my questions sound stupid is because in this area I am stupid). So do they apply different chemicals to the soil to make it clean? If they haul it off site do they put in another landfill or incinerate it in some way?

 

[KevFu]

It's also worth noting that the ASU Arena is months AHEAD of schedule, which is what allowed the Coyotes to have it as an option. It was originially scheduled to open in December, but ASU has shifted their early events from their Plan B to the new place in October.

Coyotes are going to do some preseason games there (although the annex won't be done yet).

That's the advantage of being in a city where it's not snowing/raining for like 325 days of the year, unlike the Islanders and their winter setbacks.

 

[theoriginal55]

For unsold seats. Go to Ticketmaster. Search Arizona Coyotes and enter. Scroll to bottom of first page. Click on Coyotes Season Tickets. Click select. !!Have to click select on each plan as different seats are shown as unsold on each plan! Can zoom in to see available (green) seats. Add together to see how many sold/unsold.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Coyotes are going to do some preseason games there (although the annex won't be done yet).

Coyotes have no home preseason games in Tempe. They'll have 4 regular season home games before the annex is complete, all in rapid succession Oct 28, 30, Nov 1, 3. Next home game after that is 12/9, by which time the annex will supposedly be done.

 

[TheLegend]

Coyotes have no home preseason games in Tempe. They'll have 4 regular season home games before the annex is complete, all in rapid succession Oct 28, 30, Nov 1, 3. Next home game after that is 12/9, by which time the annex will supposedly be done.

They do have a preseason game in Tucson (9/25 vs Anaheim)

 

[KevFu]

Coyotes have no home preseason games in Tempe. They'll have 4 regular season home games before the annex is complete, all in rapid succession Oct 28, 30, Nov 1, 3. Next home game after that is 12/9, by which time the annex will supposedly be done.

Ah, I misread. I think it's ASU preseason games that were supposed to be in a different venue.

 

[powerstuck]

So what does decontaminating entail? (If my questions sound stupid is because in this area I am stupid). So do they apply different chemicals to the soil to make it clean? If they haul it off site do they put in another landfill or incinerate it in some way?

It really depends of the way they chose to do it (on site or out of it). If the soil is very contaminated, it is easier and faster to haul it away and bring ''new'' materials in.

Usually they will hand the materials to a specialized company who will deal with proper ways to decontaminate or landfill away the dirty stuff. The company responsible for construction then can focus on saying we've got virgin ground and we have new materials VERSUS having to decontaminate on site then have the environement guys come to certify it was properly done before they can move onto next stage.

Decontamination itself varies a lot. Let's say they need to decontaminate a gas station that has closed two years ago and was run for 50 years. The ground underneath most likely needs to be chemically processed to remove all oil/gas contaminants.

But if they need to decontaminate and old 50-60 or more years old landfill. They may have a mix of ground with not much contaminants and stuff that takes 200-300 years to decontaminate. They can filter and separate each of the types and handle each batch accordingly to today's environmental standard.

 

[awfulwaffle]

It really depends of the way they chose to do it (on site or out of it). If the soil is very contaminated, it is easier and faster to haul it away and bring ''new'' materials in.

Usually they will hand the materials to a specialized company who will deal with proper ways to decontaminate or landfill away the dirty stuff. The company responsible for construction then can focus on saying we've got virgin ground and we have new materials VERSUS having to decontaminate on site then have the environement guys come to certify it was properly done before they can move onto next stage.

Decontamination itself varies a lot. Let's say they need to decontaminate a gas station that has closed two years ago and was run for 50 years. The ground underneath most likely needs to be chemically processed to remove all oil/gas contaminants.

But if they need to decontaminate and old 50-60 or more years old landfill. They may have a mix of ground with not much contaminants and stuff that takes 200-300 years to decontaminate. They can filter and separate each of the types and handle each batch accordingly to today's environmental standard.

Here's from the ESA about what might pose a contamination threat(Page 44):

Sumps and Oil/Water Separator System: We identified 3 sumps and an oil/water separator system at the Site that potentially received petroleum or hazardous materials during their use. These include the collection sumps at Buildings D, E and F and the oil/water separator system adjacent to a wash rack and Building F. We were not able to observe the interior of the sumps or oil/water separator system to assess their integrity. It is possible leaks have occurred from the sumps and/or separator during their years of operation. Based on this information, the sumps and oil/water separator are considered recognized environmental conditions and we recommend additional assessment of these structures.

Fill material adjacent, which came from other construction projects and soils from repairs on water lines, etc.

There was a spill by Southwest Slurry Seal of 200 gallons of asphalt emulsion back in 1999.

Gravel Mining took place from late 1950s to mid 1970s. Could have been backfilled with materials possibly including petroleum and hazardous substances.

There was a 550 gallon underground storage tank that held diesel.

Hydraulic lifts were replaced but no record of confirmation they didn't leak anything.

I mean, with this site, who knows what could be in there. I mean it randomly just catches fire on its own.

 

[TheLegend]

^^^^ In regards to replacing soil.

IIRC…. The arena floor is expected to be roughly 30 feet below grade. So there would be a lot of soil removal regardless. The question is how deep does the contaminated soil go below that. If there is any found.

 

[powerstuck]

Here's from the ESA about what might pose a contamination threat(Page 44):



Fill material adjacent, which came from other construction projects and soils from repairs on water lines, etc.

There was a spill by Southwest Slurry Seal of 200 gallons of asphalt emulsion back in 1999.

Gravel Mining took place from late 1950s to mid 1970s. Could have been backfilled with materials possibly including petroleum and hazardous substances.

There was a 550 gallon underground storage tank that held diesel.

Hydraulic lifts were replaced but no record of confirmation they didn't leak anything.

I mean, with this site, who knows what could be in there. I mean it randomly just catches fire on its own.

Thanks. Leads me to believe it may be easier/more efficient to just haul all excaved ground away (usually to predetermined sites where specialized companies will take care of decontamination) and build with new materials.

^^^^ In regards to replacing soil.

IIRC…. The arena floor is expected to be roughly 30 feet below grade. So there would be a lot of soil removal regardless. The question is how deep does the contaminated soil go below that. If there is any found.

The environmental study you posted, all exploratory drillings stopped at 40 feet deep. So kinda fits that floor is 30 feet deep + 10 feet for foundation.

Drills can go much deeper than 40 feet, so if they stopped at 40 is because they hit ''virgin ground''. Meaning even if you dig deeper, unless you find a gas/methane/gold deposit, you won't have issues further down.

 

[TheLegend]

August 18th agendas for the Tempe city council are out and so far I only see the Coyotes proposal in the executive session agenda.

Regular council session agenda is massive though and I might have missed it.

 

[oknazevad]

Jimmy Hoffa one of them?

He's under the Acme Supermarket (formerly Pathmark) in Saddle Brook, NJ.

No, seriously. The foundations for that store were poured the night he disappeared. In the middle of the night. Who pouts a foundation in the middle of the night?

 

[mouser]

He's under the Acme Supermarket (formerly Pathmark) in Saddle Brook, NJ.

No, seriously. The foundations for that store were poured the night he disappeared. In the middle of the night. Who pouts a foundation in the middle of the night?

The Detroit mafia were adept at disposing of bodies. The concept the mafia would drive Hoffa’s body 600 miles from Detroit to NJ to bury him in a construction site is one of those entertaining but logically flawed urban legends. More distance and driving increases the risk of being caught or something else going wrong.

The local mafia guys in Michigan most likely handled disposing of Hoffa’s remains.


p.s. Have been to the restaurant where Hoffa disappeared from. Closed now.

 

[Stumbledore]

The Detroit mafia were adept at disposing of bodies. The concept the mafia would drive Hoffa’s body 600 miles from Detroit to NJ to bury him in a construction site is one of those entertaining but logically flawed urban legends. More distance and driving increases the risk of being caught or something else going wrong.

The local mafia guys in Michigan most likely handled disposing of Hoffa’s remains.


p.s. Have been to the restaurant where Hoffa disappeared from. Closed now.

Call me old-fashioned but I still believe one of the original theories: Joey Giancolone did the hit on orders from Russ Bufalino and the body was incinerated in a local crematorium.

 

[TheLegend]

FWIW…. Tempe will be getting an update on the negotiations with the Coyotes from their staff tomorrow. Since it will be in executive session none of it will be available to the public.

Coyotes however are reaching out to Tempe residents for their opinions. A public meeting was held yesterday hosted by a local real estate agent.



Seems like there will be more of this to follow as Tempe and the Coyotes continue negotiating.