CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

[TheLegend]

Thats not unusual in big real estate developments, especially if there are going to be multiple owners. It wouldn't effect the score because you would rely on the financial strength of the investors.

It would seem to be that way. But the outline for how they grade that particular score is vague.

Hopefully we have some clarity on it tomorrow.

 

[aqib]

It would seem to be that way. But the outline for how they grade that particular score is vague.

Hopefully we have some clarity on it tomorrow.

I would guess that they would have submitted financials from AM's other companies, whatever other investors he's lined up, and commitment/interest letters from banks or other lenders but you're right we'll have to see tomorrow

 

[trebor204]

2pm local.

Arizona doesn't change their clocks for Daylight Saving in the Spring, Phoenix follows PDT, which is 5:00 pm Eastern.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Arizona doesn't change their clocks for Daylight Saving in the Spring, Phoenix follows PDT, which is 5:00 pm Eastern.

Forever GMT-7 (I used to work in satellite command/control, it's the first thing I learned when i moved to Arizona)

 

[sh724]

I would guess that they would have submitted financials from AM's other companies, whatever other investors he's lined up, and commitment/interest letters from banks or other lenders but you're right we'll have to see tomorrow

That is faulty as well. The reason you create all these different legal entities is to shield yourself if one (or multiple) entities have issues.

They could require AM's other entities to guaranty the new project in which case other entities financials are relevant but we have no idea if that is even being considered.

 

[Ernie]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Meruelo has had issues paying his bills on multiple occasions. There is plenty of reason to believe he has shaky finances.

 

[TheLegend]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Meruelo has had issues paying his bills on multiple occasions. There is plenty of reason to believe he has shaky finances.

Ducks are in Anaheim and seem to be holding up just fine.

 

[KevFu]

OK, so I'm thousands of kms away, though I've been watching the Coyotes with interest for over a decade, but if others have better information they can and should correct me.

The City of Phoenix owns the Footprint Center (formerly Talking Stick, formerly US Airways, etc), although the building is managed by the Suns. The City of Glendale owns Gila River Arena, the now-former home of the Coyotes. A new Tempe arena would compete directly with both of those facilities. It would potentially give leverage to the Suns whenever their arena deal runs up (as in 'give us a better deal or we're moving to Tempe').

So that would be Phoenix's motivation to block a Tempe arena. Plus you'll always have certain elements come out against 'taxpayers subsidizing pro-sports".

Well, living here, there ain't no way GLENDALE's former NHL arena was really competing with the Suns Arena or the Coyotes Arena. Not when I have to take a day off from work to attend an event in Glendale and have lightrail access to the Suns/DBacks where I can pay $4 for a train instead of find parking, and sip concealed booze on the way there and sober up on the way back.

Tempe Arena vs Suns Arena is a legit concern, I suppose. But hardly. This time of year is when they'd be competing for acts; and there's only 21 events booked in the Suns Arena that aren't NBA/WNBA/Arena games through from now until the end of the year.

There's 6 million people in the market. Any touring event is either not having a problem doing 18,000 a night in Downtown and 1-2 nights later Tempe or vice-versa, OR is big enough to do 40,000 one night in Chase Field.

It's the medium-sized "one-off" events that they'll fight for. And again, it's a market of 6 million people, with 25 venues over 5000. They probably have plenty of THINGS they could host and don't. What are they afraid of losing, the IceCapades?

Meruelo has had issues paying his bills on multiple occasions. There is plenty of reason to believe he has shaky finances.

Is this based on anything other than the Coyotes' dispute with their former arena in Glendale?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Is this based on anything other than the Coyotes' dispute with their former arena in Glendale?

Probably not. Man I wish my finances were that shaky.

 

[Ernie]

Is this based on anything other than the Coyotes' dispute with their former arena in Glendale?

He missed paying some player bonuses, also didn't pay his taxes. And defaulted on the arena lease payments twice. All "human errors" of course.

 

[aqib]

That is faulty as well. The reason you create all these different legal entities is to shield yourself if one (or multiple) entities have issues.

They could require AM's other entities to guaranty the new project in which case other entities financials are relevant but we have no idea if that is even being considered.

You may create them to shield liability or you may create special corporations because the particular project is going to have part owners that aren't involved in your other businesses.

Either way you are going to show your other businesses have the resources to pull it off.

For example if this project is $1.7 billion and Meruelo is going to be putting in 50% he has to show that he has the wherewithal to come up with $850 million.

 

[TheLegend]

He missed paying some player bonuses, also didn't pay his taxes. And defaulted on the arena lease payments twice. All "human errors" of course.

During a pandemic when revenues at his three largest holdings all came to a complete halt for several months. All the while attempting to get one of them into a long term successful business plan.

Context is your friend.

 

[Headshot77]

It would seem these are the events that would have to happen for it to happen on that timeline:
- Tempe says no at the June 2, saying they don't want enter formal negotiations with the Coyotes
- Meruelo has no other long term options in the Phoenix area and is willing to sell
- The ASU lease is easy to escape
- There is another owner willing to buy, has an available arena, and willing to move the team on short notice.
- That owner has been fully vetted by the BOG
- The league has a scheduling contingency for the new location

They are going to play at least 1 season in ASU even if there is a no vote today.

If this 1.7 billion project goes through, Meruelo will own the arena, and all the ancillary development around it, right? Honestly that would be so incredibly huge for the stability of the franchise. No more paying rent to Glendale.

 

[LPHabsFan]

During a pandemic when revenues at his three largest holdings all came to a complete halt for several months. All the while attempting to get one of them into a long term successful business plan.

Context is your friend.

I mean if you're someone who's trying to put together 1.7 billion (yes I know with other investors) for a project like this, regardless of what's going on with your other businesses, you should be able to pay the comparatively minor amounts in bonuses. I get that it was from a couple of years ago now but nothing happens in a vacuum. It's this, plus the general state of the team now and historically plus the contracts plus stuff from his previous business dealings.

Context though right?

 

[TheLegend]

I mean if you're someone who's trying to put together 1.7 billion (yes I know with other investors) for a project like this, regardless of what's going on with your other businesses, you should be able to pay the comparatively minor amounts in bonuses. I get that it was from a couple of years ago now but nothing happens in a vacuum. It's this, plus the general state of the team now and historically plus the contracts plus stuff from his previous business dealings.

Context though right?

Yep.

Also just as easy for any of us to merely assume what his situation was too.

 

[LPHabsFan]

They are going to play at least 1 season in ASU even if there is a no vote today.

If this 1.7 billion project goes through, Meruelo will own the arena, and all the ancillary development around it, right? Honestly that would be so incredibly huge for the stability of the franchise. No more paying rent to Glendale.

I can't really see them voting no right now. If I'm not mistaken, even though people will interpret a yes in the wrong way and as a massive win, saying yes simply brings them to the next stage which I believe is the negotiating phase rather than greenlighting the project. Things could could still fall apart during the next stage when they actually start talking dollars and AM and co. start asking for more city money because that's how these things always go.

 

[TheLegend]

Craig Morgan posted a pre-game warmup article that includes player rosters.

Was just informed it’s unlocked. Included a couple of things that I hadn’t seen before.

As Tempe City Council prepares to discuss Coyotes’ proposed arena, here's what you need to know - PHNX Sports

As the Tempe City Council weighs the Coyotes’ proposed arena and entertainment district, PHNX offers a primer on all of the issues surrounding what could be a watershed deal for the franchise.

www.gophnx.com

 

[OG6ix]

Craig Morgan posted a pre-game warmup article that includes player rosters.

Was just informed it’s unlocked. Included a couple of things that I hadn’t seen before.

As Tempe City Council prepares to discuss Coyotes’ proposed arena, here's what you need to know - PHNX Sports

As the Tempe City Council weighs the Coyotes’ proposed arena and entertainment district, PHNX offers a primer on all of the issues surrounding what could be a watershed deal for the franchise.

www.gophnx.com

Looks like it's a yes vote - so unless Muerelo's finances fall or the Airport Authority/Goldwater institute come in the green light will eventually happen. I'm happy for the coyotes diehards.

 

[TheLegend]

Looks like it's a yes vote - so unless Muerelo's finances fall or the Airport Authority/Goldwater institute come in the green light will eventually happen. I'm happy for the coyotes diehards.

Well.... the yes vote only moves the proposal to the public negotiation phase. As in the details of the proposal can be made public. It'll take at least two more public hearings to get to the final approval.

I can safely say there will be a few more twists to this before then.

 

[OG6ix]

Well.... the yes vote only moves the proposal to the public negotiation phase. As in the details of the proposal can be made public. It'll take at least two more public hearings to get to the final approval.

I can safely say there will be a few more twists to this before then.

LOL - I don't blame you. My guess is Phoenix has a lot to lose with their investment in the footprint center and I am sure Sarver will be calling on the politicians he has in his pocket.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I can safely say there will be a few more twists to this before then.

Yes, some of those here rooting for the relo haven't yet been introduced to the inevitable local whackadoodle NIMBYs... that'll be fun.

 

[Final Baton]

Reading the Morgan piece : really looks like it'll be a yes. Seems the city really want this project and that the boogeyman job of Phoenix and it's goon the airport, haven't discouraged the city officials that'll be voting.

I know a yes is not a warranty but; at least it's not a no.

 

[Stumbledore]

I was just riffing off of a line from Monty Python and the Holy Grail...


And to be more fair, City of Phoenix does kind of have a point. There was a case I had to study in first year law school: Miller v Jackson [1977] QB 966 in Torts class. There was a long-standing cricket field, then someone built a house right next door. The owners of the house became upset that cricket balls kept getting hit into their yard.

Now the case is most famous for the dissent of Lord Denning, where he goes on about the history of cricket. But the majority decided that the cricket club was liable for the damage the cricket balls caused. The fact that the homeowners (the Millers) bought a house in a location they ought to have known would have a risk of cricket-balls falling in their yard was no defence.

Obviously the land-use policies of metro Phoenix are miles away from a 45 year old English common law case. But there is a non-zero risk that somewhere down the road people living in residence directly under the flightpath will complain about the noise. Even if Sky Harbor Airport is completely in the right (they were there first) doesn't mean those complaints don't exist.

Yep, very familiar with Miller v Jackson.

Ironically, the Millers left Durham soon after the decision was rendered but the Lintz Cricket Club is still there, going strong after 120 years. Lord Denning also wrote the report on the investigation of the Profumo Affair. He also would have fit in with some of the Supreme Court crowd because he often argued against precedent. The old bugger made it to 100 before he kicked off.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yep, very familiar with Miller v Jackson.

Ironically, the Millers left Durham soon after the decision was rendered but the Lintz Cricket Club is still there, going strong after 120 years. Lord Denning also wrote the report on the investigation of the Profumo Affair. He also would have fit in with some of the Supreme Court crowd because he often argued against precedent. The old bugger made it to 100 before he kicked off.

Yup, he would like to write dissents in which he'd criticize the law, then in future cite his own dissents as proof that the law was flawed because so many people (him) criticized it!

 

[awfulwaffle]

Does anyone have information on what happened between Shady Park and the Retirement community? It's my understanding that the retirement community was built after Shady Park(I could be wrong on this). They complained about the noise, and at the end of the day Shady Park had to shut down(not sure if they are still a bar, just not allowed to do outdoor concerts/events).

Shady Park was the bar that held a lot of EMD concerts and events, basically like Release Pool Party(same production group behind the scenes). It was popular, and made sense because of its close proximity to Mill Ave and ASU.

I wonder if that's been brought up at all between Phoenix/Tempe, or if that might be brought up at all down the road possibly?