CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

[Llama19]

Tempe memo gives Coyotes' proposal low marks for 'financial strength' and Phoenix threatens suit

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2022/06/01/tempe-memo-gives-coyotes-proposal-low-marks-financial-strength/9973803002/

 

[TheLegend]

Tempe's plan for the Arizona Coyotes will be nothing but trouble for Sky Harbor airport

Opinion: It's easy to predict what will happen when Tempe builds 1,000 new homes near the airport's southern runway, and none if it is good for any of us.

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2022/06/01/tempe-plan-arizona-coyotes-spells-trouble-sky-harbor-airport/9996700002/

All former Phoenix mayors simply parroting the same talking points.

Tempe memo gives Coyotes' proposal low marks for 'financial strength' and Phoenix threatens suit

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2022/06/01/tempe-memo-gives-coyotes-proposal-low-marks-financial-strength/9973803002/

The pre-game rhetoric is definitely heating up.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Tempe's plan for the Arizona Coyotes will be nothing but trouble for Sky Harbor airport

Opinion: It's easy to predict what will happen when Tempe builds 1,000 new homes near the airport's southern runway, and none if it is good for any of us.

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2022/06/01/tempe-plan-arizona-coyotes-spells-trouble-sky-harbor-airport/9996700002/

For those who don't read that all the way to the end - this op ed is written by 4 former Phoenix mayors. Again, more evidence of the attempted snow job by the City of Phoenix. One more nothingburger for this thread.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Tempe memo gives Coyotes' proposal low marks for 'financial strength' and Phoenix threatens suit

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2022/06/01/tempe-memo-gives-coyotes-proposal-low-marks-financial-strength/9973803002/

Can anyone summarize, or post an excerpt?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Okay, so a little birdy sent me the article. So the headline involves the proposal's rating for financial strength, but the proposal was graded on 6 different metrics. Here's the overall score:

The team's proposal was judged in six categories with 200 points possible in each area. The project's score was:


- Experience developing large mixed-use entertainment projects: 140 points (70%).

- Demonstrated financial strength/ability: 80 points (40%).

- Organizational capacity to include project team: 180 points (90%).

- Project design: 180 points (90%).

- Project feasibility from a financial, public benefit, and local economic impact perspective: 140 points (70%).

- Interview of proposed team: 170 points (85%).

For a total score of 890 out of 1200. Which puts things in perspective. But also perhaps makes it all the more worrying that if the proposal has such an experienced team why don't they have better financial strength?

After months of near silence it is nice to see that things have been going on in the background between Meruelo and Tempe. But this is far from a done deal, either as between the City of Tempe, and the City of Phoenix/the airport.

 

[PCSPounder]

Please tell me, since Monty Python not only managed to exist but to thrive, that you in fact expected the Phoenix inquisition.

 

[JimAnchower]

Please tell me, since Monty Python not only managed to exist but to thrive, that you in fact expected the Phoenix inquisition.

Coyotes do have nice red uniforms.

 

[TheLegend]

Can anyone summarize, or post an excerpt?

JMO.... It's more or less a summary of things to date.

Tries to explain the scores and compared it to a couple of other recent projects but then admits there's little context to really define what the score actually means.

The "lawsuit" thing is a letter the City of Phoenix sent Tempe over that IGA agreement between the two cities. I think CF was going to get it from the Sky Harbor site and give us his opinion on it.

Speaking of that agreement....... someone I know via Twitter (who is currently working in DC, but was plugged into local politics before that) has pointed out that Phoenix itself is guilty of doing the same things they're claiming Tempe is....... and he has the receipts.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Okay, so a little birdy sent me the article. So the headline involves the proposal's rating for financial strength, but the proposal was graded on 6 different metrics. Here's the overall score:



For a total score of 890 out of 1200. Which puts things in perspective. But also perhaps makes it all the more worrying that if the proposal has such an experienced team why don't they have better financial strength?

After months of near silence it is nice to see that things have been going on in the background between Meruelo and Tempe. But this is far from a done deal, either as between the City of Tempe, and the City of Phoenix/the airport.

I mean, wasn't this the 3rd party recommendation? I thought it was common knowledge that pretty much nothing would happen until this report came back to the City of Tempe. Of course Muerelo and company have been working with Tempe, they've also been working with the airport/city of Phoenix(reduced the height). They weren't just going to sit back and wait for something to happen.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Speaking of that agreement....... someone I know via Twitter (who is currently working in DC, but was plugged into local politics before that) has pointed out that Phoenix itself is guilty of doing the same things they're claiming Tempe is....... and he has the receipts.

Is it similar to this?

 

[TheLegend]

Okay, so a little birdy sent me the article. So the headline involves the proposal's rating for financial strength, but the proposal was graded on 6 different metrics. Here's the overall score:



For a total score of 890 out of 1200. Which puts things in perspective. But also perhaps makes it all the more worrying that if the proposal has such an experienced team why don't they have better financial strength?

After months of near silence it is nice to see that things have been going on in the background between Meruelo and Tempe. But this is far from a done deal, either as between the City of Tempe, and the City of Phoenix/the airport.

Thought this was addressed a page or two back.

Bluebird was created specifically for this project. As such it has no prior history financially therefore it would probably affect the one score.

I mentioned I had a concern about the score being a sore point and so far my spidey senses about it are coming true. The story's writer even admits there's little context there and Tempe isn't giving him anything further to clarify that.

It really is something that needs to be addressed tomorrow at the council.

I *might* be attending, but have another commitment in the morning and may not make it out there in time.

 

[TheLegend]

Is it similar to this?

He posted about a housing project Phoenix approved four years ago that's literally just off the main runway at Scottsdale's airport.



And then there's this project that only received a minor stipulation...




And if you're wondering about John Glenn's qualifications. 15 years working on planning boards for the city of Phoenix.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Thought this was addressed a page or two back.

Bluebird was created specifically for this project. As such it has no prior history financially therefore it would probably affect the one score.

I mentioned I had a concern about the score being a sore point and so far my spidey senses about it are coming true. The story's writer even admits there's little context there and Tempe isn't giving him anything further to clarify that.

It really is something that needs to be addressed tomorrow at the council.

I *might* be attending, but have another commitment in the morning and may not make it out there in time.

I touched on this back there too. It's completely commonplace to incorporate a new entity for a new project like this. Like I said it costs like $1000 to incorporate - a drop in the bucket on this project.

If all the report looks at it "well this is a newly incorporated company, so it must have no resources" it's a seriously deficient analysis. And while after years of following Glendale City Council I don't have huge faith in Arizona municipal politics, I think they have to be more competent than that.

 

[TheLegend]

I touched on this back there too. It's completely commonplace to incorporate a new entity for a new project like this. Like I said it costs like $1000 to incorporate - a drop in the bucket on this project.

If all the report looks at it "well this is a newly incorporated company, so it must have no resources" it's a seriously deficient analysis. And while after years of following Glendale City Council I don't have huge faith in Arizona municipal politics, I think they have to be more competent than that.

Agreed.... it's evolved into what I referred to earlier as a regional turf fight.

Glendale subtly tried the sabotage route early on with one of their city councilmen forwarding Katie Strang's first article on Meruelo's toxic environment to the committee in Tempe weeks prior to the RFP going out. When that didn't work they initiated the nuclear option by not renewing the GRA lease.

And Phoenix has now brought out their 800-lb gorilla in Sky Harbor to take it head on.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Agreed.... it's evolved into what I referred to earlier as a regional turf fight.

Glendale subtly tried the sabotage route early on with one of their city councilmen forwarding Katie Strang's first article on Meruelo's toxic environment to the committee in Tempe weeks prior to the RFP going out. When that didn't work they initiated the nuclear option by not renewing the GRA lease.

And Phoenix has now brought out their 800-lb gorilla in Sky Harbor to take it head on.

There's definitely a question of just how many arenas does metro Phoenix need. Between Gila River and Footprint Centre (not to mention several outdoor venues) yet another will bite into the business of the existing facilities.

 

[Stumbledore]

Agreed.... it's evolved into what I referred to earlier as a regional turf fight.

Glendale subtly tried the sabotage route early on with one of their city councilmen forwarding Katie Strang's first article on Meruelo's toxic environment to the committee in Tempe weeks prior to the RFP going out. When that didn't work they initiated the nuclear option by not renewing the GRA lease.

And Phoenix has now brought out their 800-lb gorilla in Sky Harbor to take it head on.

No way. The airport is a 150 lb chimpanzee at best.

 

[Yukon Joe]

No way. The airport is a 150 lb chimpanzee at best.

Have ye ever gotten into a fight with a chimpanzee? Well, Have ye? Listen, they've got a vicious streak a mile wide. They're killers. They'll do you up a treat, mate.

 

[KevFu]

So silly question about the turf war, because despite living here, I'm (a) relatively new and (b) totally ignorant about local politics because politics is dumb...

Is this just a hatfield/mccoy thing, where PHX is just being jerks to Tempe because that's what they do?

It's not like they're TRYING to land the Coyotes in PHX, are they?

 

[Yukon Joe]

So silly question about the turf war, because despite living here, I'm (a) relatively new and (b) totally ignorant about local politics because politics is dumb...

Is this just a hatfield/mccoy thing, where PHX is just being jerks to Tempe because that's what they do?

It's not like they're TRYING to land the Coyotes in PHX, are they?

OK, so I'm thousands of kms away, though I've been watching the Coyotes with interest for over a decade, but if others have better information they can and should correct me.

The City of Phoenix owns the Footprint Center (formerly Talking Stick, formerly US Airways, etc), although the building is managed by the Suns. The City of Glendale owns Gila River Arena, the now-former home of the Coyotes. A new Tempe arena would compete directly with both of those facilities. It would potentially give leverage to the Suns whenever their arena deal runs up (as in 'give us a better deal or we're moving to Tempe').

So that would be Phoenix's motivation to block a Tempe arena. Plus you'll always have certain elements come out against 'taxpayers subsidizing pro-sports".

 

[Stumbledore]

Have ye ever gotten into a fight with a chimpanzee? Well, Have ye? Listen, they've got a vicious streak a mile wide. They're killers. They'll do you up a treat, mate.

Nope, never had a simian opponent in any of my fights, although a guy came at me in a bar in Essen in 1982 who could have passed for a silverback.

I'm well aware of the nastiness of chimpanzees and various authorities will claim that they target the genitals of their opponent. But my play on the gorilla cliche was simply to point out that, while the airport may pound its chest and raise all sorts of noise and objections, nothing will come of it in the end. But maybe Merulo and Co. need to keep their hands over their goodies.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Nope, never had a simian opponent in any of my fights, although a guy came at me in a bar in Essen in 1982 who could have passed for a silverback.

I'm well aware of the nastiness of chimpanzees and various authorities will claim that they target the genitals of their opponent. But my play on the gorilla cliche was simply to point out that, while the airport may pound its chest and raise all sorts of noise and objections, nothing will come of it in the end. But maybe Merulo and Co. need to keep their hands over their goodies.

I was just riffing off of a line from Monty Python and the Holy Grail...


And to be more fair, City of Phoenix does kind of have a point. There was a case I had to study in first year law school: Miller v Jackson [1977] QB 966 in Torts class. There was a long-standing cricket field, then someone built a house right next door. The owners of the house became upset that cricket balls kept getting hit into their yard.

Now the case is most famous for the dissent of Lord Denning, where he goes on about the history of cricket. But the majority decided that the cricket club was liable for the damage the cricket balls caused. The fact that the homeowners (the Millers) bought a house in a location they ought to have known would have a risk of cricket-balls falling in their yard was no defence.

Obviously the land-use policies of metro Phoenix are miles away from a 45 year old English common law case. But there is a non-zero risk that somewhere down the road people living in residence directly under the flightpath will complain about the noise. Even if Sky Harbor Airport is completely in the right (they were there first) doesn't mean those complaints don't exist.

 

[aqib]

Thought this was addressed a page or two back.

Bluebird was created specifically for this project. As such it has no prior history financially therefore it would probably affect the one score.

I mentioned I had a concern about the score being a sore point and so far my spidey senses about it are coming true. The story's writer even admits there's little context there and Tempe isn't giving him anything further to clarify that.

It really is something that needs to be addressed tomorrow at the council.

I *might* be attending, but have another commitment in the morning and may not make it out there in time.

Thats not unusual in big real estate developments, especially if there are going to be multiple owners. It wouldn't effect the score because you would rely on the financial strength of the investors.

 

[MNNumbers]

What time is this meeting tomorrow?

 

[TheLegend]

I was just riffing off of a line from Monty Python and the Holy Grail...


And to be more fair, City of Phoenix does kind of have a point. There was a case I had to study in first year law school: Miller v Jackson [1977] QB 966 in Torts class. There was a long-standing cricket field, then someone built a house right next door. The owners of the house became upset that cricket balls kept getting hit into their yard.

Now the case is most famous for the dissent of Lord Denning, where he goes on about the history of cricket. But the majority decided that the cricket club was liable for the damage the cricket balls caused. The fact that the homeowners (the Millers) bought a house in a location they ought to have known would have a risk of cricket-balls falling in their yard was no defence.

Obviously the land-use policies of metro Phoenix are miles away from a 45 year old English common law case. But there is a non-zero risk that somewhere down the road people living in residence directly under the flightpath will complain about the noise. Even if Sky Harbor Airport is completely in the right (they were there first) doesn't mean those complaints don't exist.

Little bit of irony here…

A 20-story senior luxury complex next to ASU just won a lawsuit against a local Tempe establishment for excessive noise. Tempe city council had sided with the establishment because they were there first.

Shady Park: Tempe music venue loses legal battle against retirement home over noise | FOX 10 Phoenix

A judge ruled on April 13 in favor of Mirabella at ASU and against Shady Park, a popular bar and music venue on Mill Avenue.

www.fox10phoenix.com

 

[TheLegend]

What time is this meeting tomorrow?

2pm local.