CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

[awfulwaffle]

GOT EM! "Where were they?"

 

[gstommylee]

GOT EM! "Where were they?"

what is this in reference?

 

[awfulwaffle]

what is this in reference?

A project 1 block away that sky harbor didn't make a peep about related to aircraft noise.

 

[OG6ix]

This lawyer woods is entertaining!

 

[TheLegend]

Nick Woods turned Sky Harbor inside out.... flipped their own data against them.

Sky Harbor has hinted they want to bring bigger planes in (aka the Airbus 380). Which means extending the north runways to handle them. Meruelo's project would put a huge damper to that.

Still not a defining moment in this saga.

I smell lawsuits incoming.

 

[gstommylee]

Nick Woods turned Sky Harbor inside out.... flipped their own data against them.

Still not a defining moment in this saga.

I smell lawsuits incoming.

lol sky harbor is gonna have a hard time convincing a judge to throw it out when they did nothing about the other projects that happened near the airport.

 

[TheLegend]

lol sky harbor is gonna have a hard time convincing a judge to throw it out when they did nothing about the other projects that happened near the airport.

Never underestimate the courts in Arizona.

 

[gstommylee]

Never underestimate the courts in Arizona.

so the judge is gonna ignore the other residental projects that were built near the airport that sky harbor isn't making a peep out at the time and throw out this project?

 

[1CasualFan]

Sky Harbor has hinted they want to bring bigger planes in (aka the Airbus 380). Which means extending the north runways to handle them. Meruelo's project would put a huge damper to that.

We crossed over into the absurd when Sky Harbor posted their economic impact "analysis" - now they've gone to plaid.

Airbus A380: End of a multibillion-dollar dream – DW – 12/16/2021

The last Airbus A380 has been delivered, bringing the program to an end. Once seen as the future of travel, the world's biggest aircraft turned into a flop. But for the plane-maker, it was still worth the effort.

www.dw.com

 

[1CasualFan]

so the judge is gonna ignore the other residental projects that were built near the airport that sky harbor isn't making a peep out at the time and throw out this project?

Perhaps we should consider that the parties would enter into some form of amended/successor agreement long before judges or courts determine the outcome of this hypothetical?

 

[gstommylee]

Nick Woods turned Sky Harbor inside out.... flipped their own data against them.

Sky Harbor has hinted they want to bring bigger planes in (aka the Airbus 380). Which means extending the north runways to handle them. Meruelo's project would put a huge damper to that.

Still not a defining moment in this saga.

I smell lawsuits incoming.

And getting that through isn't any easier. Seatac (our main airport) when it added a 3rd run away had to deal with the issues of "too much noise". Sky Harbor will run into that same problem they they are objecting to the arena with. "too much noise" Oh wouldn't extending the runway possible be a violation with the IGP?

 

[TheLegend]

We crossed over into the absurd when Sky Harbor posted their economic impact "analysis" - now they've gone to plaid.

Airbus A380: End of a multibillion-dollar dream – DW – 12/16/2021

The last Airbus A380 has been delivered, bringing the program to an end. Once seen as the future of travel, the world's biggest aircraft turned into a flop. But for the plane-maker, it was still worth the effort.

www.dw.com

What got me was Woods pointed out Sky Harbor has been trying to impose contour maps that they came up with that FAA never approved. The last approved one being 1999.

 

[gstommylee]

What got me was Woods pointed out Sky Harbor has been trying to impose contour maps that they came up with that FAA never approved. The last approved one being 1999.

Sky Harbor isn't helping themselves especially more so that stuff like that probably will be brought up and used against them in a potential lawsuit brought forward by sky Harbor.

 

[golffuul]

To be fair, you can see how this plays out. Sky Harbor simply wants an accommodation to all this. Woods, unfortunately, showed his hand when he said that they tried to make accommodations and the only thing that wasn't accommodate was a legal issue that they couldn't resolve.

That the two are airing their laundry in front of the Council is pretty immature, IMO, from both sides.

I still think the Bond issue will be a huge problem for Meruelo. Only because Real Estate companies go "bankrupt" and change owners all the time. It's one of the more volatile industries in terms of financial backing. There would have to be so many legal things to keep the backing in place, that would literally tie-up Meruelo's investments, just to make good on the backing for the Bonds. While it looks good on paper, to try and convince someone of your financial "stability", I would think that there would be any number of scenarios where that backing could easily fall through and submarine the whole project. Full marks to the ownership group, though, for at least trying. Just feels like the whole thing rides on Meruelo being able to be trusted at his word. And that doesn't carry much weight, one would think, in Arizona.

 

[gstommylee]

To be fair, you can see how this plays out. Sky Harbor simply wants an accommodation to all this. Woods, unfortunately, showed his hand when he said that they tried to make accommodations and the only thing that wasn't accommodate was a legal issue that they couldn't resolve.

That the two are airing their laundry in front of the Council is pretty immature, IMO, from both sides.

I still think the Bond issue will be a huge problem for Meruelo. Only because Real Estate companies go "bankrupt" and change owners all the time. It's one of the more volatile industries in terms of financial backing. There would have to be so many legal things to keep the backing in place, that would literally tie-up Meruelo's investments, just to make good on the backing for the Bonds. While it looks good on paper, to try and convince someone of your financial "stability", I would think that there would be any number of scenarios where that backing could easily fall through and submarine the whole project. Full marks to the ownership group, though, for at least trying. Just feels like the whole thing rides on Meruelo being able to be trusted at his word. And that doesn't carry much weight, one would think, in Arizona.

Welcome to how political process of getting anything approved through a city government.

Today's vote doesn't mean the arena actually happens it just means the city can enogiation final terms of the arena and further issues can be discussed.

Here's the thing its not the private groups repsonsibility to clean up that landfil that isn't owned privatelly. Its public land owned by the city... To make to where AM has to pay 100% of everything including every single penny to clean up that landfill is irresponsible by the government.

Sky harbor wants that IGP gone so they are free to do what ever they want... That isn't wanting accommodations.

 

[gstommylee]

Perhaps we should consider that the parties would enter into some form of amended/successor agreement long before judges or courts determine the outcome of this hypothetical?

RIght i would think something would get hashed out before a courts ruling anyways. As woods said that agreement can be modified.

 

[TheLegend]

To be fair, you can see how this plays out. Sky Harbor simply wants an accommodation to all this. Woods, unfortunately, showed his hand when he said that they tried to make accommodations and the only thing that wasn't accommodate was a legal issue that they couldn't resolve.

That the two are airing their laundry in front of the Council is pretty immature, IMO, from both sides.

I still think the Bond issue will be a huge problem for Meruelo. Only because Real Estate companies go "bankrupt" and change owners all the time. It's one of the more volatile industries in terms of financial backing. There would have to be so many legal things to keep the backing in place, that would literally tie-up Meruelo's investments, just to make good on the backing for the Bonds. While it looks good on paper, to try and convince someone of your financial "stability", I would think that there would be any number of scenarios where that backing could easily fall through and submarine the whole project. Full marks to the ownership group, though, for at least trying. Just feels like the whole thing rides on Meruelo being able to be trusted at his word. And that doesn't carry much weight, one would think, in Arizona.

The bonding part has changed, as has the GPLET part they’re asking for.

Meruelo will put more up front but there’s a backend to it and I didn’t get much data on that but would imagine we will if it goes forward because it should be public then.

 

[gstommylee]

The bonding part has changed, as has the GPLET part they’re asking for.

Meruelo will put more up front but there’s a backend to it and I didn’t get much data on that but would imagine we will if it goes forward because it should be public then.

And like most big huge projects it rarely gets approved as is. I expected there will be changes.

 

[TheLegend]

Also…. Clearly he’s going to finance most of this since Gutierrez mentioned the list of major US banks Meruelo works with.

 

[gstommylee]

so any idea how soon they'll vote on to continue or not?

 

[TheLegend]

so any idea how soon they'll vote on to continue or not?

There were 90 requests for comments. Three minutes each but quite a few haven’t shown up when called.

 

[KevFu]

Sky Harbor.... making the hard case for having residential units in the project.

Claims it's not about the arena.... but it is.

Craig Morgan wrote in his article that I linked this morning at least two city council members in Phoenix would like to woo the Coyotes there.

See, I have zero problem with PHX and Tempe bickering and fighting over the Coyotes if they're arguing over WHO GETS THEM because both want them.

Fight over who can get a shovel in the ground the fastest and make the Coyotes the best deal.

 

[gstommylee]

See, I have zero problem with PHX and Tempe bickering and fighting over the Coyotes if they're arguing over WHO GETS THEM because both want them.

Fight over who can get a shovel in the ground the fastest and make the Coyotes the best deal.

One problem where in phx they are gonna play at? The NBA suns don't want them.

There were 90 requests for comments. Three minutes each but quite a few haven’t shown up when called.

Good god 3mins each? Not even Seattle city council would allowed it to take that long.

 

[KevFu]

One problem where in phx they are gonna play at? The NBA suns don't want them.

Nor should the Suns/Coyotes share an arena unless they share the same owner.

But the DBacks are starting to look toward their next stadium because Chase was built back when stadiums were aiming for 50,000 seats instead of 35,000 seats; and they aren't drawing that well and when they do have a good crowd it's usually a road-team advantage.

Of course, none of that is Chase Field's fault. I personally think Chase is a freaking marvel of a stadium and "bigger than what they need" is the worst thing you can say about it.

But thinking long term, the Diamondbacks getting a new stadium somewhere means there's a huge piece of awesome real estate available for an arena.

This is why I mentioned some kind of planned out rotation instead of a free for all every time a lease is up.

You know who never has stadium fights? Philly. Because they have NFL, MLB, NHL/NBA stadiums and like 22 parking lots on one plot of land.

Every time a team needs a new facility, they just close a parking lot, build a new place, tear down the old place and make it a parking lot: Municipal/JFK, Spectrum, Vet, Lincoln Financial, Citizens Bank Park.

 

[TheLegend]

So in Glendale we had the Duck Man..... Water Bill Guy......

Now we can add "Diaper Lady" the list of celebrity speakers.