CXLI - UPDATE 1/27 - Coyotes working on deal to play at 5,000-seat arena at ASU

[TheLegend]

Uh what?

You forget Meruelo has been negotiating with representatives from Tempe for almost two years prior to the city issuing the RFP last October?

Or do you believe $1.7 billion dollar proposals like this just get plucked out from mid-air?

 

[Ernie]

You forget Meruelo has been negotiating with representatives from Tempe for almost two years prior to the city issuing the RFP last October?

Or do you believe $1.7 billion dollar proposals like this just get plucked out from mid-air?

I've been following this proposal closely and nobody has put a timeline on anything. We know that Meruelo has been kicking tires all over the place since he bought the team, similar to the last decade of haphazard team ownership.

And yes, based on the slapdash nature of the proposal I wouldn't be surprised if it was put together in a very short period of time. So far the process behind putting together the proposal has been opaque at best and there are ZERO credible partners that been have shown to be a part of it so far.

 

[TheLegend]

I've been following this proposal closely and nobody has put a timeline on anything. We know that Meruelo has been kicking tires all over the place since he bought the team, similar to the last decade of haphazard team ownership.

And yes, based on the slapdash nature of the proposal I wouldn't be surprised if it was put together in a very short period of time. So far the process behind putting together the proposal has been opaque at best and there are ZERO credible partners that been have shown to be a part of it so far.

Uh…. between @Llama19 and I we’ve pretty much posted every article available covering this going back to the Phoenix Business Journal article which included some of the pre-RFP e-mail traffic from Tempe officials when they were discussing how Glendale would react to them buying a full page ad in a Coyotes publication in late 2019 to its business partners.

From receiving an unsolicited email from a Glendale city councilman with Katie Strang’s initial article attached.

And so on….

So for someone who continues to project himself as on top of everything and knows exactly how everything has gone since day one from clear across a continent, it’s rather bizarre that I (AND others, not even Coyotes fans mind you) have to keep filling in the gaping holes you keep generating.

 

[Ernie]

Uh…. between @Llama19 and I we’ve pretty much posted every article available covering this going back to the Phoenix Business Journal article which included some of the pre-RFP e-mail traffic from Tempe officials when they were discussing how Glendale would react to them buying a full page ad in a Coyotes publication in late 2019 to its business partners.

From receiving an unsolicited email from a Glendale city councilman with Katie Strang’s initial article attached.

And so on….

So for someone who continues to project himself as on top of everything and knows exactly how everything has gone since day one from clear across a continent, it’s rather bizarre that I (AND others, not even Coyotes fans mind you) have to keep filling in the gaping holes you keep generating.

Lol if you want to construe that as a serious planning process go ahead. It just shows how inept everyone involved is. This proposal is half assed and any well run municipality would reject it out of hand. If this goes ahead Tempe is going to need a Jerry Weiers to extract themselves from this ridiculous.

The funny thing is that other development that was recently discussed in this thread followed a much more typical process and it took about 2 years. If Meruelo wants to figure out a temporary home for the next 1.5 years while this moves through in an orderly manner he's quite welcome to.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

None so blind as those who will not see.

 

[aqib]

None so blind as those who will not see.

I think a lot of the observers just want more information and we're stuck in this holding pattern and anything will fill the vacuum.

 

[TheLegend]

I think a lot of the observers just want more information and we're stuck in this holding pattern and anything will fill the vacuum.

Actually it's more like this.......

You have a few who are just bored and can't help themselves in perpetuating their personal fantasies.

Then you have one or two who watch this thread get too close to the bottom of the first page and think they just HAVE to post something that's been hashed over countless times to keep things "fresh".

 

[TheLegend]

Lol if you want to construe that as a serious planning process go ahead. It just shows how inept everyone involved is. This proposal is half assed and any well run municipality would reject it out of hand. If this goes ahead Tempe is going to need a Jerry Weiers to extract themselves from this ridiculous.

The funny thing is that other development that was recently discussed in this thread followed a much more typical process and it took about 2 years. If Meruelo wants to figure out a temporary home for the next 1.5 years while this moves through in an orderly manner he's quite welcome to.

Well then it's nice to know we have a self-proclaimed expert on developing multi-billion dollar properties and municipal governing on hand to enlighten us all.

 

[MNNumbers]

When is the next Tempe meeting?

 

[Mightygoose]

When is the next Tempe meeting?

The next regular council meeting I show is February 10

637751662540670000 (tempe.gov)

Based on this schedule and baring any special meets, the schedule for the rest of this council is as follows

February 10
March 3
April 28
May 26
June 9
June 23

New council is sworn in on July 1

Question I have is how many public discussions (the exact terms is escaping me) must they have before a vote takes place. Looking at past meetings there are 2, if they follow that pattern then could be looking at April, though can't rule out one being called earlier.

It's still a short runway.

 

[awfulwaffle]

The next regular council meeting I show is February 10

637751662540670000 (tempe.gov)

Based on this schedule and baring any special meets, the schedule for the rest of this council is as follows

February 10
March 3
April 28
May 26
June 9
June 23

New council is sworn in on July 1

Question I have is how many public discussions (the exact terms is escaping me) must they have before a vote takes place. Looking at past meetings there are 2, if they follow that pattern then could be looking at April, though can't rule out one being called earlier.

It's still a short runway.

Why does anyone think something will happen before the report from the 3rd party comes back?

 

[MNNumbers]

Why does anyone think something will happen before the report from the 3rd party comes back?

I don't think anyone actually thinks that anything will happen before the report.

When is it due?

 

[TheLegend]

I don't think anyone actually thinks that anything will happen before the report.

When is it due?

There’s at least one here who’s already made that determination. But I digress.

I scanned through the RFP Hunden bid on a while back and I don’t recall Tempe specifying any due date or time period. But with a winning bid of just $78k I wouldn’t expect them to take that long given their experience in the field.

 

[Pandemonia]

There’s at least one here who’s already made that determination. But I digress.

I scanned through the RFP Hunden bid on a while back and I don’t recall Tempe specifying any due date or time period. But with a winning bid of just $78k I wouldn’t expect them to take that long given their experience in the field.

So, much faster than the Cyber Ninjas then?

 

[TheLegend]

So, much faster than the Cyber Ninjas then?

Oh you had to go there…..

*wiping off screen*

 

[Major4Boarding]

There’s at least one here who’s already made that determination. But I digress.

I scanned through the RFP Hunden bid on a while back and I don’t recall Tempe specifying any due date or time period. But with a winning bid of just $78k I wouldn’t expect them to take that long given their experience in the field.

Correct. It's listed as a deliverable ("Timeline") in the RFQ. The exact date isn't mentioned.

5. Tasks and Deliverables

The Consultant will complete the following tasks to finalize the analysis.

• Review all documents in the proposal as well as staff analyses and supplemental documents gathered through the interview process.
• Review any relevant similar national stadium projects to the one proposed for Tempe.
• Review relevant Arizona Revised Statutes (ARS) affecting the Gift Clause.
• Conduct an analysis of the economic impact and public benefit as provided.
• A Draft Final Report providing details regarding the economic impact and the direct public benefit this project would bring to the City and demonstrating what has worked for other similar stadium proposals nationally and listing options and solutions for any elements that make this project unsuccessful with respect to the public benefits.
• All supporting documents and materials used to calculate and prepare the Draft Final Report

7. Schedule and Budget

Please provide a timeline for completion of these tasks and a cost associated with each component as well as the total amount required to finalize the draft report.

Tempe's a wee bit different than Glendale, as they seem to drop their agenda items for an upcoming meeting a lot closer to said meeting. As in, there's nothing I found for the 2/10/22 meeting yet. But that's where it should pop up.

 

[JimAnchower]

Duhatschek thinks Coyotes will remain in Arizona next year, mainly due the fact that the schedule for next year needs to be determined soon. If Tempe or the mystery second option falls though, he thinks Houston makes the most sense in 2023-24 as Plan B.

Trading Tomas Hertl and Timo Meier? Where will the Coyotes play next year? Duhatschek mailbag

Edited to add:

It’s a complete guessing game still, but if you want me to make a guess, I’d say, for next year, the odds of the Coyotes playing somewhere in Arizona (and not necessarily Gila River Arena) are high. And I mostly base that on the NHL’s almost irrational wish to stay in that market that showed signs of being decent when the Coyotes played downtown, but has been a complete disaster since they moved to Glendale.
At some point, if they cannot gain any traction on a new arena in a more suitable area, you’d have to think they’ll go to Plan B and shift the franchise to Houston, which is easily the path of least resistance. It means keeping the team in the same division and creates a natural rivalry for Dallas. You’d also think the Coyotes’ current operating philosophy – of moving out player assets and stockpiling draft picks – is a reflection of their current state of limbo, not sure when (or where) the real future of the franchise begins. But this is January, the bones of next year’s scheduling matrix will start to be formed relatively soon and so even if it means finding temporary quarters elsewhere in Arizona for 2022-23, my best guess is they’re not shifting operations anywhere for at least one more NHL season.

 

[TheLegend]

Correct. It's listed as a deliverable ("Timeline") in the RFQ. The exact date isn't mentioned.



Tempe's a wee bit different than Glendale, as they seem to drop their agenda items for an upcoming meeting a lot closer to said meeting. As in, there's nothing I found for the 2/10/22 meeting yet. But that's where it should pop up.

Arizona Open Meeting Law only requires 24 hour notice.

https://www.azoca.gov/wp-content/uploads/Open-Meeting-Law-101.pdf

1. Notice

Public bodies must post a disclosure statement on their website or file a disclosure statement as provided for by statute. The disclosure statement states where the public body will post individual meeting notices. A.R.S. § 38-431.02(A)(1) through (4).

The open meeting law requires at least 24 hours notice of meetings to the members of the public body and the general public. A.R.S. § 38-431.02(C). Notice must be posted on the public body’s website, unless otherwise permitted by statute. Notice must also be posted at any other electronic or physical locations identified in the disclosure statement and by giving additional notice as is reasonable and practicable. A.R.S. § 38-431.02(A)(1) through (4).

2. Agenda

Agendas must contain information reasonably necessary to inform the public of the matters to be discussed or decided. A.R.S. § 38-431.09.

Agendas must be available at least 24 hours before the meeting. A.R.S. § 38- 431.02(G).

 

[Mightygoose]

Duhatschek thinks Coyotes will remain in Arizona next year, mainly due the fact that the schedule for next year needs to be determined soon. If Tempe or the mystery second option falls though, he thinks Houston makes the most sense in 2023-24 as Plan B.

Trading Tomas Hertl and Timo Meier? Where will the Coyotes play next year? Duhatschek mailbag

Edited to add:

For sure some sort of decision needs to be made soon. IIRC at the end of the 2010 season and I presume 2011 when Glendale had to make a decision on the 'insurance policy' there were 2 drafts of the schedule. One with Arizona and one with Winnipeg. I would think the same thing would have been in place in 2013 (IA lease approval), since that wasn't firmed up until July 2.

Depends how soon the NHL is looking for a plan B, they could to the same for next season.

 

[aqib]

For sure some sort of decision needs to be made soon. IIRC at the end of the 2010 season and I presume 2011 when Glendale had to make a decision on the 'insurance policy' there were 2 drafts of the schedule. One with Arizona and one with Winnipeg. I would think the same thing would have been in place in 2013 (IA lease approval), since that wasn't firmed up until July 2.

Depends how soon the NHL is looking for a plan B, they could to the same for next season.

Yeah but would you really have to draw a completely different schedule for Houston vs Phoenix? A team doing a west coast swing goes Seattle-San Jose-LA-Anaheim-Arizona can just go Seattle-San Jose-LA-Anaheim-Houston. Winnipeg would more likely be combined with Minnesota/Edmonton/Calgary.

 

[Mightygoose]

Yeah but would you really have to draw a completely different schedule for Houston vs Phoenix? A team doing a west coast swing goes Seattle-San Jose-LA-Anaheim-Arizona can just go Seattle-San Jose-LA-Anaheim-Houston. Winnipeg would more likely be combined with Minnesota/Edmonton/Calgary.

Good thought, I think it depends on where would the team play in their respective markets. If the Coyotes are using Chase Field they would have to work around the D Backs, potential post season plus other existing events. Likely an extended road trip to start the season which wouldn't be needed in Houston

If they'll be in Houston at the Toyota Centre they would have to Rockets games and other events but they'll be more spaced out than baseball.

 

[TheLegend]

Duhatschek thinks Coyotes will remain in Arizona next year, mainly due the fact that the schedule for next year needs to be determined soon. If Tempe or the mystery second option falls though, he thinks Houston makes the most sense in 2023-24 as Plan B.

Trading Tomas Hertl and Timo Meier? Where will the Coyotes play next year? Duhatschek mailbag

Edited to add:

There's a rumor from one of our posters (who knows someone within the Coyotes) that a temporary place to play for next season is almost ready to go. Not 100% done but it's close.

Craig Morgan in his mailbag blog noted their are no talks going on with the AVMC. So YMMV.

 

[Ernie]

It would be a lot harder to block off dates in a Houston arena than a Winnipeg one.

 

[SkalbaniasGhost]

There's a rumor from one of our posters (who knows someone within the Coyotes) that a temporary place to play for next season is almost ready to go. Not 100% done but it's close.

Craig Morgan in his mailbag blog noted their are no talks going on with the AVMC. So YMMV.

Tucson?

 

[JimAnchower]

Tucson?

A combination of Chase Field and ASU's new hockey rink could work. Start all of October on the road, play some games at ASU when Chase is unavailable for concerts and bowl games in December and January. Would require all potential playoff games played at ASU, though, if it's available. There are downsides, of course, least of which is it could cause confusion for fans of where team is playing.