CXLI - UPDATE 1/27 - Coyotes working on deal to play at 5,000-seat arena at ASU

[MNNumbers]

Green Bay, Wisconsin, says hello.

Please inform me what this post means. I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with my ideas about the egos of sports owners, or if you just saying "not in every detail." And, therefore, I don't know how to continue the conversation.

Everyone here knows that if there weren't already an NFL team in Green Bay, that one would never come there in the future.

I had hoped that my comments as to what I perceive the attitude of the BOG to be toward large cities vs small ones, and what I perceive to be their desire to impress themselves with how important they are....would be clearly understood as to how I think they feel, rather than any description of my own feelings.

To elaborate more.....NHL owners (and sports owners in general) want to think that they are big time. If they are big time, then their franchises are worth more. It's probably true that NHL owners wouldn't want to go to a small, out-of-the way market, because such a move doesn't carry with it the idea of 'big time.' This is very likely to be part of how they think.

If it is, it explains a lot of things.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Green Bay, Wisconsin, says hello.

Publicly owned.

 

[Pandemonia]

Publicly owned.

So? What does that have to do with the exchange?

The comment was made: "Big league leagues play in the big, most important cities. Not in small remote places."

My reply pointed out that Green Bay is not big, not important, and is a fairly small, remote place.

Who owns the team is a complete non-sequitur to those two comments.

 

[MNNumbers]

So? What does that have to do with the exchange?

The comment was made: "Big league leagues play in the big, most important cities. Not in small remote places."

My reply pointed out that Green Bay is not big, not important, and is a fairly small, remote place.

Who owns the team is a complete non-sequitur to those two comments.

The comment was intended to be a representation of the way that the owners of Top-tier leagues think (especially, in this case, the reasoning that NHL owners might have). I still don't understand what pointing out the most unique ownership situation in professional sports adds to the comment.

If you were trying to say 'Well, that isn't always true, so if that is how owners think, then they are obviously wrong", I would agree, but I was really trying to say whether they were right ot wrong. I was trying to probe the reasons that they might have for Quebec being a place of last resort, rather than a place they would go to quickly.

Again, what were you trying to point out by your comment?

 

[Pandemonia]

Please inform me what this post means. I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with my ideas about the egos of sports owners, or if you just saying "not in every detail." And, therefore, I don't know how to continue the conversation.

Then let's agree not to continue it.

 

[powerstuck]

Interesting topics in here... ahem.

The coyotes need to announce do something soon, as more time goes by, the less likely anything in Arizona is happening. You need all the time (starting now) to make temp arrangements. Consider the backorders on appliances/hardware in the world. easily 10-20 weeks for some items.

While I agree that the owners want and need every single second of time they can have, there is really no rush to announce anything right now, especially if announcing something, kills every single remaining chance there is for plan B, C or even Z. Besides, because nothing has been announced doesn't mean nothing is happening behind closed doors.

 

[JimAnchower]

While I agree that the owners want and need every single second of time they can have, there is really no rush to announce anything right now, especially if announcing something, kills every single remaining chance there is for plan B, C or even Z. Besides, because nothing has been announced doesn't mean nothing is happening behind closed doors.

One lingering doubt that keeps festering the longer they go without announcing where they will play next year is how tied it is to getting a deal done in Tempe. This will be become more stark if they can't come to an agreement with Tempe. If, as Bettman keeps saying they are staying in Arizona regardless, it shouldn't matter. But longer they go without publicly telling us, the more people will think that a deal with Tempe is needed before we know where they will play next year.

 

[Edenjung]

I still don't understand what pointing out the most unique ownership situation in professional sports adds to the comment.

If you only consider north american sports.

Atleast in europe and especially in germany its the norm that a team is owned by the members of the club (and a ule in the Bundesliga 50+1 rule) and not a single owner or entity.
But thats football and not hockey.

 

[TheLegend]

Just so people aren't confused by the council agenda....

Tempe city council is voting this week on another $1.8 billion mixed-use project a couple miles east of where Meruelo's proposal is located.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2022/01/12/billion-dollar-tempe-project.html

 

[aqib]

Just so people aren't confused by the council agenda....

Tempe city council is voting this week on another $1.8 billion mixed-use project a couple miles east of where Meruelo's proposal is located.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2022/01/12/billion-dollar-tempe-project.html

Its behind the paywall can you give us some details about the development? .

 

[edog37]

The league wasn't serious about going to Winnipeg in 2011, yet that happened. They'll go to Quebec if and only if they have absolutely no other choice. I don't expect it to happen though.

agreed. I wouldn't be sad if Quebec came back, but I just don't see it happening if Houston is anywhere on the board.

 

[edog37]

It didn't telegraph anything. The NHL wanted to move Detroit and Columbus East, at the behest of the owners, who are franchise shareholders. It then had a clear plan to go to Vegas and Seattle. I think there was even some expressed disappointment when Seattle didn't bid in the first round of expansion. As MNN stated in a way, the NHL was looking for the ticket to the next big TV contract, and getting into two of the biggest markets that the NBA isn't in (because we know hockey is second fiddle to basketball everywhere but the Union states), was good for that TV contract. The next TV contract up is Canada's and Rogers has been losing money on that one. What Bettman has said about Quebec seems to indicate subtly that it is being considered for relocation...although Bettman will always tell you the league has never been stronger...

Sure it telegraphed. The last round was Quebec's best shot. A new arena in place, a market ready to go, & an ownership group. Quebecor had to know about the expansion fee, I just don't buy it they had no clue. At this level of business, things like that aren't surprises. I honestly don't think the league wants Quebec back in as an expansion market. Perhaps a relocation, but not an expansion.

 

[Final Baton]

Québec won't have a team if there's a ''more valuable'' (in the eyes of the NHL) market available.

That's the opinion of Ray Lalonde, ex-Hab president of marketing and communications, when interviewed about the news that Québec govt is meeting with the NHL today.

Interview in this vid :

Retour des Nordiques : le chèque pourrait coûter un milliard (LNH)

 

[edog37]

If Houston wants a team.

I wouldn't be surprised if the league already was in talks with a potential owner.

 

[gstommylee]

Sure it telegraphed. The last round was Quebec's best shot. A new arena in place, a market ready to go, & an ownership group. Quebecor had to know about the expansion fee, I just don't buy it they had no clue. At this level of business, things like that aren't surprises. I honestly don't think the league wants Quebec back in as an expansion market. Perhaps a relocation, but not an expansion.

How will the nhl fit quebec then? Thats been a big issue for quebec going back to 2015 expansion process.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Its behind the paywall can you give us some details about the development? .

Here's a story from the local abc affiliate related to it. They are getting a ferris wheel!

Details emerge on planned $1.8 billion Tempe mixed-use project (abc15.com)

 

[aqib]

Here's a story from the local abc affiliate related to it. They are getting a ferris wheel!

Details emerge on planned $1.8 billion Tempe mixed-use project (abc15.com)

Thanks for that. Its interesting. So is this development going to be competing with Mureulo's development or is there enough growth for the market to absorb the housing and office space the two developments will have?

 

[Pandemonia]

Thanks for that. Its interesting. So is this development going to be competing with Mureulo's development or is there enough growth for the market to absorb the housing and office space the two developments will have?

I suspect that only one will be approved to move forward. And I would expect that said approval will be based in part on the financial integrity and ethics shown by the winning developer.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

I suspect that only one will be approved to move forward. And I would expect that said approval will be based in part on the financial integrity and ethics shown by the winning developer.

Not sure why you say that.. it's on the extreme opposite end of the lake. If i'm Tempe i'd want to endcap both ends of the lake district this one with the Ferris wheel on the eastern portion and the entertainment district (Arena) on the west side.

 

[Pandemonia]

Not sure why you say that.. it's on the extreme opposite end of the lake. If i'm Tempe i'd want to endcap both ends of the lake district this one with the Ferris wheel on the eastern portion and the entertainment district (Arena) on the west side.

You might be right. I know little about the Tempe councillors and was thinking instead of the typical city politician and their tendency to cover their assets and not overexpose themselves to voters. Perhaps after the next election, the new and newly-remandated councillors will be more brave and aggressive and approve both projects.

 

[edog37]

How will the nhl fit quebec then? Thats been a big issue for quebec going back to 2015 expansion process.

they won’t is the short answer. The Board of Governors made that abundantly clear

 

[TheLegend]

Thanks for that. Its interesting. So is this development going to be competing with Mureulo's development or is there enough growth for the market to absorb the housing and office space the two developments will have?

I suspect that only one will be approved to move forward. And I would expect that said approval will be based in part on the financial integrity and ethics shown by the winning developer.

It's just one development in a much much bigger master plan (think Westgate on massive steroids).

The Rio Reimagined

This particular project was planned back in the early 2000's but got put on hold due to the recession. Was revived in 2018.

 

[LPHabsFan]

How will the nhl fit quebec then? Thats been a big issue for quebec going back to 2015 expansion process.

In terms of publicity and politically? It will range from being 15 minutes of fame to an unmitigated disaster.

Financially? They won't lose tens of millions of dollars each year, be hundreds of millions of dollars in debt now would they be the laughing stock of the league and sports in general. They'd have a full arena at actual NHL prices instead of it being more expensive to go the movies in IMAX than it is to attend a Coyotes game (albeit the cheap seats but you could move down for sure and get better seats I'd imagine). They probably won't have much of an impact on the Canadian national TV deal as they won't have fans outside of Quebec but Arizona has no impact on the US one and it's extremely debatable if a city like Houston would either given how much of an effect a team like Dallas has had on it over the past decade or so. Regionally though whatever local deal they would get would dwarf whatever Arizona has and no clue on what Houston would get. However there would also be a media war between Quebec City/Quebecor and Montreal/Bell so that I'm assuming would push numbers upwards.

At the end of the day it's hard to see the team being a team in the red at least for the first 5 years and after that, nobody knows.

Regardless of all that, QC won't get a team, as I've been saying for years for a whole slew of reasons, but anyone who talks about there not being a financial benefit is out to lunch in my opinion even over a city like Houston.

 

[GindyDraws]

Tempe 11 | City of Tempe, AZ

Meeting is going on right now tonight to discuss the Tempe arena, and based on reports, it seems that the deal is likely going to die by a 4-3 "No" vote.

 

[TheLegend]

Tempe 11 | City of Tempe, AZ

Meeting is going on right now tonight to discuss the Tempe arena, and based on reports, it seems that the deal is likely going to die by a 4-3 "No" vote.

Cripes..... The arena is NOT on the agenda.

There is an agenda item (B-*7B4) regarding the purchase of five parcels of city owned property along Tempe Town Lake for a proposed $1.8 billion mixed use development. It is NOT Meruelo's project.